On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 01:31:07 +0000, Larry wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Larry,

Could you give some detail regarding the new Honda generator
sets, one
of which that I understand you have. I believe they are DC
generators
driving an inverter.

I have two, the little EU1000i 1KW portable and the more powerful
EU3000is mounted on the back door of my service stepvan to power
my electronics shop and 2 8000 Btu air conditioners. I had the
1KW first, but got a steal on the 3KW which is a MUCH better
genset, much quieter at only 1200 RPM up to about 1800 watts
load.

You are only partly correct on the technology. The "alternator"
is a series of multiphase, high frequency coils that look just
like the stator in an outboard motor inside the flywheel of a, in
the case of the 3KW, 6.5HP 4-stroke OHC engine. Very high
frequency alternators require little "core" and, excited by rare
earth magnets embedded into the flywheel, itself, produce
tremendous high frequency power in a tiny, light package. The
output varies all over the place with load and engine speed,
which, in economy mode, is controlled by the inverter's computer
to save fuel and reduce noise under lighter loads when full power
isn't needed. Turn off economode and the engine runs at 2400 RPM
under all loads.

The 400VAC, multiphase output is fed to a set of high voltage
rectifiers and filter caps where it's THEN turned into high
voltage DC, reducing current losses and using small conductors,
not massive battery cables. The HVDC from there is fed to a
computer-controlled, electronic inverter that makes EXACTLY 60HZ
(50 Hz for the rest of the planet) at EXACTLY 115VAC (230 VAC
outside the backwards USA) so smooth and exact it's rated to
operate computers. No matter what the engine speed is, or load
up to rated output, the output of these puppies is rock solid.
Not having a direct-drive low frequency monster alternator means
the engine doesn't set the frequency of the AC
output....Efficiency goes way up! 3 gallons of petrol will power
the two AC units and my shop's power requirements for over 11
hours! The 3KW has a 3.2 gallon tank inside its quiet, insulated
cabinet. The little genset runs about 3-4 hours at 500-600 watts
on its little 4 litre plastic tankage before refilling it.
Before you buy one of the little ones, be informed they run MUCH
higher RPM to produce 1 or 2 KW from a really tiny flywheel
alternator on their little 4-stroke engines. Even in Economy
Mode, the little genset runs around 2200 to 4800 RPM, making a
much more noticable, higher frequency, audio noise...still quite
quiet but much more noticable.

Of course, being gas engines, their exhaust is very toxic to
humans sleeping in a hull, as always. The exhaust of the
EU3000is (and the new EU6500is I drool over at Northern Tool near
home) is dumped into the cooling air INSIDE the cabinet. There's
no easy way to plumb its exhaust gas alone anywhere. The little
gensets like my EU1000i has a tiny 1/2" exhaust pipe sticking out
of the cabinet! I welded a 3/4" pipe nipple over the little
1/2" metal pipe exposed. To the threaded end of the pipe nipple,
I put a 90 degree elbow that terminates in a flared copper tubing
male fitting. I can now screw onto this flange a length of
flexible stainless steel gas pipe used to connect natural gas to
a fireplace burner. I made a loop out of the gas tubing to act
as a heat exchanger, then ran the open end of the tubing through
a hole the US Air Force left in the truck when they owned it in
the deck at the rear of the truck. I work, not sleep, in the
truck so the noise of running the tiny 1KW genset is quite
tolerable....when compared to freezing to death in January trying
to fix electronics when the OAT is -5C and 0C inside the truck.
This recovers 100% of the heat coming off the little genset and a
little 110VAC fan, running off the genset, of course, blows the
heat recovered forward into the shop making it toasty warm for
almost no fuel used....with nearly a kilowatt of electric power
to run the shop to boot! The exhaust blows out the bottom and
you can hold your hand into the gas stream. It's barely warm
after I suck the heat out of it. The little genset powers the
shop in winter...the big genset powers the shop when air
conditioning is desirable.

They are very convenient, both of them, but I wouldn't want to
move the EU3000i 3KW genset as it's quite heavy with electric
start, its AGM starting battery (a little motorcycle battery) and
all. If it weren't permanently mounted on a 2000 pound angle
bracket set, I'd have wheels under it. The EU6500is is even
larger, of course, and very powerful. It has 2 cylinders, I
think. It doesn't make any more noise than the 3KW model does!
(pant - pant).

For the house, I'm powering it with a Chinese quiet-cabineted
diesel genset I bought from an auto parts place for $1600. It's
6KW and I'm running it very nicely off my soup of 20 gallons of
used frying oil from a Chinese restaurant mixed with a quart of
mineral spirits to thin it and make it more volatile....same as
my Mercedes diesel cars (73 220D and 83 300TD estate wagon).
It's cheaper to power the house with the frying oil diesel genset
than from the power company at 9.4US cents/Kwh....including lube
oil changes....but the neighbors like to sleep...(c; They won't
mind when its DARK and DEAD.


Maybe some comments regarding purchase costs, operating, etc.

The EU3000is must have 3000 hours on it, now. I bought it a
spark plug because I felt guilty, but the old one looked like the
new one so it wasn't really necessary. I keep a rough log of
hours and change its one litre of 15W40 Rotella T every 100
hours, about. I've never had a single problem. The little one
failed to start and I took it to a shop for a tuneup after,
around, 1500 hours...same oil change interval. He cleaned the
tiny carb's jets that were clogged and reassembled it. I don't
know how it got in there. The carb is a float carb small as a
weedeater's in size. Anything will clog a jet you can't even see
through! It never repeated it and cranks on the 1st pull, now,
with choke, of course.

There is a remote-start kit available for the EU3000is, and I
assume the EU6500is new one. You'll, of course, want the keyless
remote start kit from Hayes I've actually seen work:
http://www.hayesequipment.com/portab...reless_remote_
start_kit.htm
You push the button, the little computer closes the choke and
starts it, opening the choke at the correct time. Press the
button again, and it shuts down the unit....easy installation.
You won't even have to crawl out of your berth to start the tea
water boiling...(c;




I'm thinking of trying one but they seem pretty scarce over
here and
I'd hate to order one only to discover that they aren't what I
imagined.

They are much more quiet than a normal genset. They require very
little maintenance. Just change the oil is all I do. The book
wants you to disassemble it and clean the stupid spark arrestor
Honda puts into the exhaust to keep the greenies in the forest
happy. The only sparks I've seen are from a couple of shorted
drop cords...(c;

Another nice thing is the protection they have. The inverters
are VERY quick to dump dangerous loads. They'll tolerate small
overloads, like starting near-rating motors. Cranking two 8000
Btu Korean window ACs SIMULTANEOUSLY is no problem for the 3KW
model. Sometimes I get a tripout of the inverter when one of the
ACs tries to restart a pressure-locked compressor too soon. To
clear the overload and restart, you simply shut down the engine
and restart it....and you're back in action. There are also
magnetic-trip breakers in case some stupid plugs the genset into
something already hot. The engine has a great oil sensor in it.
The computer shuts down the engine if the oil level drops below
the add point and when you go to restart it lights a red oil
warning light until you correct it. It won't run on low oil.
After all these hours, it still doesn't use any oil, either one
of them. Honda's Chinese contractors make fine engines. I don't
take this statement lightly. But, at Pep Boys Auto Parts, where
I bought the diesel Chinese genset, they have two model Chinese
gas gensets with the SAME EXACT RED 11hp 3600 RPM OHC engine that
my Honda EM5000X regular genset had in it....right down to the
same castings without the HONDA logos punched into them! Honda
is buying engines from the Chinese, like everyone else. I assume
my two Honda electronic gensets are too, but have never seen a
copy. Honda's nothing special any more in this homogenized
economy.


I am presently rebuilding a power boat and will eventually need
auxiliary power and the choice is between a permanently mounted
diesel
unit and (maybe) the Honda.

I'd be worried about carrying gasoline, gas fumes, another fuel
system for the Honda, CO poisoning the diesel doesn't spew. Go
with the diesel genset...a couple of sizes bigger than you think
you need would be nice. This yellow Chinese genset is made to
ISO9001 specifications. Just because its Chinese, doesn't make
it junk. It's very heavily built...electric preheat...electric
start or manually cranked with a compression release lever. It'd
make a great sailboat engine for a 28 footer....and SIMPLE, the
kind you can fix without a computer scientist. It's also really
easy on fuel...not as easy as the Hondas and their computerized
speed management...but really easy on frying oil...(c;


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)




Larry

Thanks for ultra detailed explanation.

The boat I'm rebuilding has an aircooled diesel gen set mounted in the
engine compartment with a jury rigged fan to help it cool and an
electric water pump to flow water through the exhaust. I did use it
when I brought the boat up from Singapore but only when I was sitting
there watching it.

It will get replaced before much longer and thus my inquiry. I can
build/buy a 6 KW water cooled diesel gen set and mount it where the
old air cooled unit is mounted which, with a proper warning and
shutdown systems can be run all the time, if necessary. But of course,
I was trying to get "something for nothing" by, maybe, replacing the
diesel unit with the Honda. For one thing the Honda would be lighter.

I agree with you about gasoline and combustion gases but with the
configuration of this boat neither the generator or the fuel tank need
to be inside the boat.



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

WaIIy wrote in
:

Of course, even you would be hard-pressed to top your ' living on a
boat
simulator' story.



Funny you should mention that....(c;

"The Liveaboard Simulator"


Just for fun, park your cars in the lot of the convenience store
at least 2 blocks from your house. (Make believe the sidewalk is a
floating dock between your car and the house.


Move yourself and your family (If applicable) into 2 bedrooms and 1
bathroom. Measure the DECK space INSIDE your boat. Make sure the
occupied house has no more space, or closet space, or drawer space.


Boats don't have room for "beds", as such. Fold your Sealy
Posturepedic up against a wall, it won't fit on a boat. Go to a hobby
fabric store and buy a foam pad 5' 10" long and 4' wide AND NO MORE
THAN 3" THICK. Cut it into a triangle so the little end is only 12"
wide. This simulates the foam pad in the V-berth up in the pointy bow
of the sailboat. Bring in the kitchen table from the kitchen you're
not allowed to use. Put the pad UNDER the table, on the floor, so you
can simulate the 3' of headroom over the pad.
Block off both long sides of the pad, and the pointy end so you have
to climb aboard the V-berth from the wide end where your pillows will
be. The hull blocks off the sides of a V-berth and you have to climb
up over the end of it through a narrow opening (hatch to main cabin)
on a boat. You'll climb over your mate's head to go to the potty in
the night. No fun for either party. Test her mettle and resolve by
getting up this way right after you go to bed at night. There are lots
of things to do on a boat and you'll forget at least one of them,
thinking about it laying in bed, like "Did I remember to tie off the
dingy better?" or "Is that spring line (at the dock) or anchor line
(anchored out) as tight as it should be?" Boaters who don't worry
about things like this laying in bed are soon aground or on
fire or the laughing stock of an anchorage.... You need to find out
how much climbing over her she will tolerate BEFORE you're stuck with
a big boat and big marina bills and she refuses to sleep aboard it any
more.....


Bring a coleman stove into the bathroom and set it next to the
bathroom sink. Your boat's sink is smaller, but we'll let you use the
bathroom sink, anyways. Do all your cooking in the bathroom, WITHOUT
using the bathroom power vent. If you have a boat vent, it'll be a
useless 12v one that doesn't draw near the air your bathroom power
vent draws to take away cooking odors. Leave the hall door open to
simulate the open hatch. Take all the screens off your 2 bedroom's
windows. Leave the windows open to let in the bugs that will invade
your boat at dusk, and the flies attracted to the cooking.


Borrow a 25 gallon drum mounted on a trailer. Flush your
toilets into the drums. Trailer the drums to the convenience store to
dump them when they get full. Turn off your sewer, you won't have
one. This will simulate going to the "pump out station" every time the
tiny drum is full. 25 gallons is actually LARGER than most holding
tanks.
They're more like 15 gallons on small sailboats under 40' because they
were added to the boat after the law changed requiring them and there
was no place to put it or a bigger one. They fill up really fast if
you liveaboard!


Unless your boat is large enough to have a big "head" with full bath,
make believe your showers/bathtubs don't work. Make a deal with
someone next door to the convenience store to use THEIR bathroom for
bathing at the OTHER end of the DOCK. (Marina rest room) If you use
this rest room to potty, while you're there, make believe it has no
paper towels or toilet paper. Bring your own. Bring your own soap
and anything else you'd like to use there, too.


If your boat HAS a shower in its little head, we'll let you use the
shower end of the bathtub, but only as much tub as the boat has FREE
shower space
for standing to shower. As the boat's shower drains into a little pan
in the bilge, be sure to leave the soapy shower water in the bottom of
the tub for a few days before draining it. Boat shower sumps always
smell like spent soap growing exotic living organisms science hasn't
actually discovered or named, yet. Make sure your simulated V-berth is
less than 3' from this soapy water for sleeping. The shower sump is
under the passageway to the V-berth next to your pillows.


Run you whole house through a 20 amp breaker to simulate available
dock power at the marina. If you're thinking of anchoring out, turn
off the main breaker and "make do" with a boat battery and
flashlights. Don't forget you have to heat your house on this 20A
supply and try to keep the water from freezing in winter.


Turn off the water main valve in front of your house. Run a hose from
your neighbor's lawn spigot over to your lawn spigot and get all your
water from there. Try to keep the hose from freezing all winter.


As your boat won't have a laundry, disconnect yours. Go to a boat
supply place, like West Marine, and buy you a dock cart. Haul ALL
your supplies, laundry, garbage, etc. between the car at the
convenience store and house in this cart. Once a week, haul your
outboard motor to the car, leave it a day then haul it back to the
house, in the cart, to simulate "boat problems" that require "boat
parts" to be removed/replaced on your "dock". If ANYTHING ever comes
out of that cart between the convenience store and the house, put it
in your garage and forget about it. (Simulates losing it over the
side of the dock, where it sank in 23' of water and was dragged off by
the current.)


Each morning, about 5AM, have someone you don't know run a weedeater
back and forth under your bedroom windows to simulate the fishermen
leaving the marina to go fishing. Have him slam trunk lids, doors,
blow car horns and bang some heavy pans together from 4AM to 5AM
before lighting off the weedeater. (Simulates loading boats
with booze and fishing gear and gas cans.) Once a week, have him bang
the running weedeater into your bedroom wall to simulate the idiot who
drove his boat into the one you're sleeping in because he was half
asleep leaving the dock. Put a rope over a big hook in the ceiling
over your "bed". Put a sheet of plywood under your pad with a place
to hook a rope to one side or the other. Hook one end of the rope
to the plywood hook and the other end out where he can pull on it.
As soon as he shuts off the weedeater, have him pull hard 9 times
on the rope to tilt your bed at least 30 degrees. (Simulates the wakes of
the fishermen blasting off trying to beat each other to the fishing.)
Anytime there is a storm in your area, have someone constantly pull on
the rope. It's rough riding storms in the marina or anchored out! If your
boat is a sailboat, install a big wire from the top of the tallest tree
to your electrical ground in the house to simulate mast lightning strikes
in the marina, or to give you the thought of potential lightning strikes.



Each time you "go out", or think of going boating away from your
marina, disconnect the neighbor's water hose, your electric wires, all
the umbilicals your new boat will use to make life more bearable in
the marina.
Use bottled drinking water for 2 days for everything. Get one of those
5 gallon jugs with the airpump on top from a bottled water company.
This is your boat's "at sea" water system simulator. You'll learn to
conserve water this way. Of course, not having the marina's AC power
supply, you'll be lighting and all from a car battery, your only
source of power. If you own or can borrow a generator, feel free to
leave it running to provide AC power up to the limit of the generator.
If you're thinking about a 30' sailboat, you won't have room for a
generator so don't use it.


Any extra family members must be sleeping on the settees in the main
cabin or in the quarter berth under the cockpit....unless you intend
to get a boat over 40-something feet with an aft cabin. Smaller boats
have quarter berths. Cut a pad out of the same pad material that is no
more than 2' wide by 6' long. Get a cardboard box from an appliance
store that a SMALL refridgerator came in. Put the pad in the box, cut
to fit, and make sure only one end of the box is open. The box can be
no more than 2 feet above the pad. Quarter berths are really tight.
Make them sleep in there, with little or no air circulation. That's
what sleeping in a quarterberth is all about.


Of course, to simulate sleeping anchored out for the weekend, no heat
or air conditioning will be used and all windows will be open without
screens so the bugs can get in.


In the mornings, everybody gets up and goes out on the patio to enjoy
the sunrise. Then, one person at a time goes back inside to dress,
shave, clean themselves in the tiny cabin unless you're a family of
nudists who don't mind looking at each other in the buff. You can't
get dressed in the stinky little head with the door closed on a
sailboat. Hell, there's barely room to bend over so you can sit on the
commode. So, everyone will dress in the main cabin....one at a time.


Boat tables are 2' x 4' and mounted next to the settee. There's no
room for chairs in a boat. So, eat off a 2X4' space on that kitchen
table you slept under while sitting on a couch (settee simulator). You
can also go out with breakfast and sit on the patio (cockpit), if you
like.


Ok, breakfast is over. Crank up the lawnmower under the window for 2
hours. It's time to recharge the batteries from last night's usage and
to freeze the coldplate in the boat's icebox which runs off a
compressor on the engine. Get everybody to clean up your little hovel.
Don't forget to make the beds from ONE END ONLY. You can't get to the
other 3 sides of a boat bed pad.


All hands go outside and washdown the first fiberglass UPS truck that
passes by. That's about how big the deck is on your 35' sailboat that
needs to have the ocean cleaned off it daily or it'll turn the white
fiberglass all brown like the UPS truck. Now, doesn't the UPS truck
look nice like your main deck?


Ok, we're going to need some food, do the laundry, buy some boat parts
that failed because the manufacturer's bean counters got cheap and
used plastics and the wife wants to "eat out, I'm fed up with cooking
on the Coleman stove" today. Let's make believe we're not at home, but
in some exotic port like Ft Lauderdale, today....on our cruise to Key
West......Before "going ashore", plan on buying all the food you'll
want to eat that will:
A - Fit into the Coleman Cooler on the floor
B - You can cook on the Coleman stove without an oven or all those
fancy
kitchen tools you don't have on the boat
C - And will last you for 10 days, in case the wind drops and it takes
more time than we planned at sea.
Plan meals carefully in a boat. We can't buy more than we can STORE,
either!


You haven't washed clothes since you left home and everything is
dirty. Even if it's not, pretend it is for the boater-away-from-home
simulator. Put all the clothes in your simulated boat in a huge
dufflebag so we can take it to the LAUNDRY! Manny's Marina HAS a
laundromat, but the hot water heater is busted (for the last 8 months)
and Manny has "parts on order" for it.....saving Manny $$$$ on the
electric bill! Don't forget to carry the big dufflebag with us on our
"excursion". God that bag stinks, doesn't it?....PU!


Of course, we came here by BOAT, so we don't have a car. Some nice
marinas have a shuttle bus, but they're not a taxi. The shuttle bus
will only go to West Marine or the tourist traps, so we'll be either
taking the city bus, if there is one or taxi cabs or shopping at the
marina store which has almost nothing to buy at enormous prices.


Walk to the 7-11 store, where you have your car stored, but ignore the
car.
Make believe it isn't there. No one drove it to Ft Lauderdale for you.
Use the payphone at the 7-11 and call a cab. Don't give the cab driver
ANY instructions because in Ft Lauderdale you haven't the foggiest
idea where West Marine is located or how to get there, unlike at home.
We'll go to West Marine, first, because if we don't the "head" back on
the boat won't be working for a week because little Suzy broke a valve
in it trying to flush some paper towels. This is your MOST important
project, today....that valve in the toilet!! After the cab drivers
drives around for an hour looking for West Marine and asking his
dispatcher how to get there. Don't forget to UNLOAD your stuff from
the cab, including the dirty clothes in the dufflebag then go into
West Marine and give the clerk a $100 bill, simulating the cost of
toilet parts. Lexus parts are cheaper than toilet parts at West
Marine. See for yourself! The valve she broke, the
seals that will have to be replaced on the way into the valve will
come to $100 easy. Tell the clerk you're using my liveaboard simulator
and to take his girlfriend out to dinner on your $100 greenback. If
you DO buy the boat, this'll come in handy when you DO need boat parts
because he'll remember you for the great time his girlfriend gave him
on your $100 tip.
Hard-to-find boat parts will arrive in DAYS, not months like the rest
of us. It's just a good political move while in simulation mode.


Call another cab from West Marine's phone, saving 50c on payphone
charges.
Load the cab with all your stuff, toilet parts, DIRTY CLOTHES then
tell the cabbie to take you to the laundromat so we can wash the
stinky clothes in the trunk. The luxury marina's laundry in Ft
Lauderdale has a broken hot water heater. They're working on it, the
girl at the store counter, said, yesterday. Mentioning the $12/ft you
paid to park the boat at their dock won't get the laundry working
before we leave for Key West. Do your laundry in the laundromat the
cabbie found for you. Just because noone speaks English in this
neighborhood, don't worry. You'll be fine this time of day near noon.


Call another cab to take us out of here to a supermarket. When you get
there, resist the temptation to "load up" because your boat has
limited storage and very limited refridgeration space (remember?
Coleman Cooler).
Buy from the list we made early this morning. Another package of
cookies is OK. Leave one of the kids guarding the pile of clean
laundry just inside the supermarket's front door....We learned our
lesson and DIDN'T forget and leave it in the cab, again!


Call another cab to take us back to the marina, loaded up with clean
clothes and food and all-important boat parts. Isn't Ft Lauderdale
beautiful from a cab? It's too late to go exploring, today. Maybe
tomorrow.... Don't forget to tell the cab to go to the 7-11 (marina
parking lot)....not your front door....cabs don't float well.


Ok, haul all the stuff in the dock cart from the 7-11 store the two
blocks to the "boat" bedroom. Wait 20 minutes before starting out for
the house.
This simulates waiting for someone to bring back a marina-owned dock
cart from down the docks.....They always leave them outside their
boats, until the marina "crew" get fed up with newbies like us asking
why there aren't any carts and go down the docks to retrieve them.


Put all the stuff away, food and clothes, in the tiny drawer space
provided. Have a beer on the patio (cockpit) and watch the sunset.
THIS is living!


Now, disassemble the toilet in your bathroom, take out the wax ring
under it and put it back. Reassemble the toilet. This completes the
simulation of putting the new valve in the "head" on the boat. Uh, uh,
NO POWERVENT!
GET YOUR HAND OFF THAT SWITCH! The whole "boat" smells like the inside
of the holding tank for hours after fixing the toilet in a real boat,
too! Spray some Lysol if you got it....


After getting up, tomorrow morning, from your "V-Berth", take the
whole family out to breakfast by WALKING to the nearest restaurant,
then take a cab to any local park or attraction you like. We're off
today to see the sights of Ft Lauderdale.....before heading out to
sea, again, to Key West.
Take a cab back home after dinner out and go to bed, exhausted, on
your little foam pad under the table.....


Get up this morning and disconnect all hoses, electrical wires, etc.
Get ready for "sea". Crank up the lawn mower under the open bedroom
window for 4 hours while we motor out to find some wind. ONE
responsible adult MUST be sitting on the hot patio all day, in shifts,
"on watch" looking out for other boats, ships, etc. If you have a
riding lawn mower, let the person "on watch" drive it around the yard
all day to simulate driving the boat down the ICW in heavy traffic.
About 2PM, turn off the engine and just have them sit on the mower
"steering" it on the patio. We're under sail, now. Every hour or so,
take everyone out in the yard with a big rope and have a tug-of-war to
simulate the work involved with setting sail, changing sail, trimming
sail. Make sure everyone gets all sweaty in the heat.
Sailors working on sailboats are always all sweaty or we're not going
anywhere fast! Do this all day, today, all night, tonight, all day,
tomorrow, all night tomorrow night and all day the following day until
5PM when you "arrive" at the next port you're going to. Make sure
noone in the family leaves the confines of the little bedroom or the
patio during our "trip". Make sure everyone conserves water, battery
power, etc., things you'll want to conserve while being at sea on a
trip somewhere. Everyone can go up to the 7-11 for an icecream as soon
as we get the "boat" docked on day 3, the first time anyone has left
the confines of the bedroom/patio in 3 days.


Question - Was anyone suicidal during our simulated voyage? Keep an
eye out for anyone with a problem being cooped up with other family
members. If anyone is attacked, any major fights break out, any
threats to throw the captain to the fish.....forget all about boats
and buy a motorhome, instead.

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

It will get replaced before much longer and thus my inquiry. I can
build/buy a 6 KW water cooled diesel gen set and mount it where the
old air cooled unit is mounted which, with a proper warning and
shutdown systems can be run all the time, if necessary. But of course,
I was trying to get "something for nothing" by, maybe, replacing the
diesel unit with the Honda. For one thing the Honda would be lighter.



What does the used frying oil market look like in Thailand? We have it
running out our ears, here! I get a couple of calls a week from other
restaurants wanting me to come pick it up like I do my "favorite three".
It costs them a fortune to have it disposed of, normally. They are more
than happy to cooperate with putting it back in the boxes it comes
in...already prefiltered of the big stuff.

If you installed a diesel, you could have free power, forever, except for
maintenance and lube oil. I even tried recycling used lube oil into the
mix with good results in the Benz cars. Just keep the used oil clean
when you drain it and use about 5%, by volume, and the diesel doesn't
seem to be able to tell any difference. It gets rid of used oil, without
having to find some place to dispose of it. Hell, it's oil! BURN IT!
5% doesn't make my diesels smoke, noticably.

If the Chinese 6KW diesel didn't weigh the same as a 8V92TA, I'd use it
on the truck and dump the Hondas I have to pay gas bills to run. I was
pondering, but never acted upon, just adding a big alternator (10KW
Harbor Freight importers sells for $299 bare) to my 6.5L Chevy V-8 diesel
mover in the shop. But, that would put excessive hours on a way-too-big-
and-expensive-to-overhaul drive engine. It wasn't economically feasible
if you factored in maintenance and overhauls on the big V-8. Gas for
Hondas are the cheapest alternative, still. But, as we pass $US3.50/US
gallon and head for $US5/USgallon soon, that may change. Gold passed
$800/oz, yesterday, making Federal Reserve fake banknotes more worthless
by the day. Even the stock markets can't keep up with the private
Federal Reserve banknote devaluation with their inflated prices any more.
We're heading into a tailspin, unless America comes to its senses and the
government starts printing real money and we hang all the banker
billionaires....which won't happen with all the bribe money floating
around.

In the World's present economic situation, I'd stick with prime movers I
can, if conditions drop much further, run off alternative fuels I'm
capable of producing without wheelbarrows full of worthless banknotes.
Hope you see my point.

Here's the scariest website I know of:
http://kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif
Sure glad I'm not dependent on money for fuel....

Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:55:23 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

I really don't want to sit at anchor with both main engines roaring
away. They would really be out to get me then :-)

Yes, if you have big engines that is not the way to go at anchor. It
works very well underway however to minimize generator run time.

On 2007-11-21 13:10:00 -0500, Larry said:

Here's the scariest website I know of:
http://kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif
Sure glad I'm not dependent on money for fuel....

I understand your sentiment, but I was around in the 70s when it became
legal to own gold again -- and the price bounced to $800/oz on
speculation. The current valuations are simply speculation by the worst
of the pessimists.

As much as I believe oil is (still) priced artificially low --
particularly in the US -- as the cost of that raw material goes up,
alternate sources and alternate power sources will be developed.

Back when I was in school (the late 60s), "they" said we'd run out of
oil about 2000. Now that we've passed that milestone, "they" are saying
we'll run out of oil in about the same time period.

"They" also said at the time that we were heading towards a little ice age....

The problem with such predictions is that they're based upon everything
staying the same and, as we're all aware, the only constant is change.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:10:00 +0000, Larry wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

It will get replaced before much longer and thus my inquiry. I can
build/buy a 6 KW water cooled diesel gen set and mount it where the
old air cooled unit is mounted which, with a proper warning and
shutdown systems can be run all the time, if necessary. But of course,
I was trying to get "something for nothing" by, maybe, replacing the
diesel unit with the Honda. For one thing the Honda would be lighter.



What does the used frying oil market look like in Thailand? We have it
running out our ears, here! I get a couple of calls a week from other
restaurants wanting me to come pick it up like I do my "favorite three".
It costs them a fortune to have it disposed of, normally. They are more
than happy to cooperate with putting it back in the boxes it comes
in...already prefiltered of the big stuff.

After you previous post about bio-diesel I investigated used cooking
oil in thailand and found that the big fast food chains, Mcdonalds,
KFC, etc., all have contracts to selling their used cooking oil - to
whom or for what they did not, would not, discuss.

The normal Thai/Chinese kitchen does not produce any appreciable
amount of used cooking oil as most dishes are prepared in a wok and
the oil becomes part of the food.

I also priced new palm oil and at the moment it is slightly higher in
price then diesel.

So, at least for now, there is no free lunch in thailand :-)

If you installed a diesel, you could have free power, forever, except for
maintenance and lube oil. I even tried recycling used lube oil into the
mix with good results in the Benz cars. Just keep the used oil clean
when you drain it and use about 5%, by volume, and the diesel doesn't
seem to be able to tell any difference. It gets rid of used oil, without
having to find some place to dispose of it. Hell, it's oil! BURN IT!
5% doesn't make my diesels smoke, noticably.

I saw an article in one of the boating magazines that talked about
pouring drained engine oil directly into the diesel tanks but I am not
convinced that is the way to go given that some injection pumps will
pump over 2,000 PSI in a piston pump with no seals I am a bit wary
about dumping used oil out of MY engines into the fuel.

If the Chinese 6KW diesel didn't weigh the same as a 8V92TA, I'd use it
on the truck and dump the Hondas I have to pay gas bills to run. I was
pondering, but never acted upon, just adding a big alternator (10KW
Harbor Freight importers sells for $299 bare) to my 6.5L Chevy V-8 diesel
mover in the shop. But, that would put excessive hours on a way-too-big-
and-expensive-to-overhaul drive engine. It wasn't economically feasible
if you factored in maintenance and overhauls on the big V-8. Gas for
Hondas are the cheapest alternative, still. But, as we pass $US3.50/US
gallon and head for $US5/USgallon soon, that may change. Gold passed
$800/oz, yesterday, making Federal Reserve fake banknotes more worthless
by the day. Even the stock markets can't keep up with the private
Federal Reserve banknote devaluation with their inflated prices any more.
We're heading into a tailspin, unless America comes to its senses and the
government starts printing real money and we hang all the banker
billionaires....which won't happen with all the bribe money floating
around.

Thai women wear 99% pure gold jewelry and my wife keeps reminding me
about how much I used to bitch about buying her a new neck chain or
bracelet and how much more they are worth today. she reckons we should
have bought more. However it is a somewhat one sided argument because
once she gets jewelry she won't sell it.

In the World's present economic situation, I'd stick with prime movers I
can, if conditions drop much further, run off alternative fuels I'm
capable of producing without wheelbarrows full of worthless banknotes.
Hope you see my point.

I see your point and have looked into converting the family gasoline
car to LPG. It is not a really costly conversion but the price of LPG
is following right along behind gasoline.

By the way, the Thais are now aggressively pushing gasohol but only
slightly cheaper then gasoline. From reading the newspaper it appears
that most, if not all of the alcohol is produced by one or two large
agro-industrial companies here, who have close political ties with the
major parties. You figure.



Here's the scariest website I know of:
http://kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif
Sure glad I'm not dependent on money for fuel....

Larry

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 00:21:39 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2007-11-21 13:10:00 -0500, Larry said:

Here's the scariest website I know of:
http://kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif
Sure glad I'm not dependent on money for fuel....

I understand your sentiment, but I was around in the 70s when it became
legal to own gold again -- and the price bounced to $800/oz on
speculation. The current valuations are simply speculation by the worst
of the pessimists.

As much as I believe oil is (still) priced artificially low --
particularly in the US -- as the cost of that raw material goes up,
alternate sources and alternate power sources will be developed.

In actual fact the costs of exploration and production drilling
and/or production costs for oil have not gone up appreciably. The high
oil costs are a direct effect of greater world usage.

Now having said that there many fields that were discovered years ago
but were too expensive to produce at crude prices at the time of
discovery that are now being re-drilled as current costs make them
viable to produce.

Back when I was in school (the late 60s), "they" said we'd run out of
oil about 2000. Now that we've passed that milestone, "they" are saying
we'll run out of oil in about the same time period.

Most "estimates" have been made on known sources and were reasonable
accurate for those sources, but as prices go up more expensive methods
of exploration become more economical and new discoveries are being
made. Of course, oil is finite and the day will come when it is no
longer available but I doubt that anyone knows with any certainty when
that will occur.

"They" also said at the time that we were heading towards a little ice age....

The problem with such predictions is that they're based upon everything
staying the same and, as we're all aware, the only constant is change.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:15:08 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:55:23 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

I really don't want to sit at anchor with both main engines roaring
away. They would really be out to get me then :-)

Yes, if you have big engines that is not the way to go at anchor. It
works very well underway however to minimize generator run time.

Well, of course the main engines charge the battery while under way,
and usually it is comfortable to sleep at anchor without air
conditioning but there are nights when it rains or the mosquitos are
out, that it is nice to close the boat up and turn on the air con.
Then I want A.C.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Jere Lull wrote in news:2007112119214075249-
jerelull@maccom:

I understand your sentiment, but I was around in the 70s when it became
legal to own gold again -- and the price bounced to $800/oz on
speculation. The current valuations are simply speculation by the worst
of the pessimists.



This is no bounce. It has been a steady, until the last 3 months, climb as
we spend our way into oblivion on the Freemason's New World Order wars the
world bankers want us in for maximum profits. The massive printing of
Federal Reserve banknotes by that private corporation can only cause this
kind of currency devaluation, ruining people's savings, investments and
driving the whole country into ruin.



Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

The high
oil costs are a direct effect of greater world usage.


I disagree. The price of oil is caused by these incessant wars the bankers
create to lend vast sums of their banknotes to governments, at interest, to
reap huge profits.

Case in point, look at this chart compensated for the bankers devaluing
their banknotes:
http://zfacts.com/p/35.html
Each huge increase in the price of fuel is caused by WAR, not consumption.
It is CONTRIVED, and was fed the ultimate gift by the false flag operation
of 9/11/01 by the criminals in power...in banking and in government.


Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;