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#1
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 5:30 pm, Joe wrote:
On Nov 11, 2:00 pm, Bob wrote: On Nov 11, 11:38 am, Joe wrote: Well Greg.. better than Wilbur, but a puppet anyhow. Plonk Hi Joe: Aside from the proliferation of personal attacks here, I would like to add one more thought before I drop this futile thread. Like Joe, and I suspect many others before us, I had visions of making my boat pay for its self. Some of the "projects" I researched were the following: Sailing lessons: Sole Proprietor Schedule C. I did this and did not make a profit for three consecutive years. As such I was violating the SPIRIT of the IRS Hobby Loss condition. Unispected Passenger Vessel CFR Sub Chapter T and of course 6 passengers Charter Boat: Same problem plus even more regs/insurance....... I even considered buying one of the 80' Katrina gulf shrippers that were going for $100k. Now that's a lot of boat for the bucks! Oh, then haul Christmas trees from PNW down to So Cal. Don't forget, since my daughter was going to school at U of Hawaii I thought I would just pack some of my daughters things and "move her to college" via sailboat. But of course pack in some "extra stuff" that she could sell at a "yard sale" later. That is even more "legal" than your project. As you belive, "hey... its MY stuff! I cna do anything I want to with it!" Very Nieve to belive that. After reading CFR, IRS, USCG, Customs etc, TO BE SAFE I then went and talked to: 1) USCG Enforcement, 2) an Admiralty Attorney ($190/hr), and 3) a CPA who specialized in marine business. The bottom line I learned is: when that 28 year old in charge of a USCG boarding party hops aboard your boat its up to her to interpret the law. They will ALWAYS error on the side of conservative interpretations. In other words, "if walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... Youre screwed. Cause, your boat is seized, you go to jail, and you of course loose your coffee. Now you get to fight the court system to prove your innocence and get the boat back. It wasn't worth the risk losing the boat I worked my ass off to get. Dear Joe, you said that you did not know the definition of the IRS term "Hobby Loss" that means you have many more lessons to learn and many more land mines to avoid. Another telling statement you made to me was, "Im on vacation... gonna buy some souvenirs... an take it home..." BUT other places you are claiming to be a COMPANY and will sell your beans on e-bay and are seeking donations for poor children. With those statements on the web you already screwed yourself. You blabbed your plan on the web! That is evidence fool! You can not have it both ways......... you re either using 10,000 lbs of beans for personal use, which is a ridiculous amount for personal use, or you're a full on coastwise vessel transporting cargo for your company. You can not have it both ways! Besides do you really think Foss, Crowley, Tidewater, Hornbeck, Chouest, Sause, Seacor, SIU, SUP, and IBU are going to let some JIPO hippy boat wannabe undercut their business?!?!?!? Your dealing with Tony Sopranno only here the law and USCG are his Paulie Walnuts. Do it right or don't do it.......................... Bob Bob the point I'm making is the boat is not for hire, as I'm carrying my own cargo. The vessel is un-inspected and the crew is not paid. I did heed your message and went ahead and applied for a cargo freight endorsement on my USCG documentation, my vessel was only registered in the state. The freight endorsement was 29 bucks. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/fees2.htm Sorry about the Capt Kangaroo remark.. I thought you were another of Wilbur's puppets. Joe- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - HI Joe: thanks for the appoogy. Around here not really needed. HOwever, I do beg your attention! Once you pack stuff on a boat, any boat, with the intent (or implied) to sell the stuff you are conducting commerce on a vessel. Just think quacking ducks. Enough said............ Before I end I support your search for profit. Sitting in every galley of every stinking rig/osv/processor or F/T ive been on the top topic besides, DUIIs and child support is how to get off that thing and get rich. Good luck.................... Bob |
#2
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Eco-Sailing
On Nov 11, 10:12 pm, Bob wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:30 pm, Joe wrote: On Nov 11, 2:00 pm, Bob wrote: On Nov 11, 11:38 am, Joe wrote: Well Greg.. better than Wilbur, but a puppet anyhow. Plonk Hi Joe: Aside from the proliferation of personal attacks here, I would like to add one more thought before I drop this futile thread. Like Joe, and I suspect many others before us, I had visions of making my boat pay for its self. Some of the "projects" I researched were the following: Sailing lessons: Sole Proprietor Schedule C. I did this and did not make a profit for three consecutive years. As such I was violating the SPIRIT of the IRS Hobby Loss condition. Unispected Passenger Vessel CFR Sub Chapter T and of course 6 passengers Charter Boat: Same problem plus even more regs/insurance....... I even considered buying one of the 80' Katrina gulf shrippers that were going for $100k. Now that's a lot of boat for the bucks! Oh, then haul Christmas trees from PNW down to So Cal. Don't forget, since my daughter was going to school at U of Hawaii I thought I would just pack some of my daughters things and "move her to college" via sailboat. But of course pack in some "extra stuff" that she could sell at a "yard sale" later. That is even more "legal" than your project. As you belive, "hey... its MY stuff! I cna do anything I want to with it!" Very Nieve to belive that. After reading CFR, IRS, USCG, Customs etc, TO BE SAFE I then went and talked to: 1) USCG Enforcement, 2) an Admiralty Attorney ($190/hr), and 3) a CPA who specialized in marine business. The bottom line I learned is: when that 28 year old in charge of a USCG boarding party hops aboard your boat its up to her to interpret the law. They will ALWAYS error on the side of conservative interpretations. In other words, "if walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... Youre screwed. Cause, your boat is seized, you go to jail, and you of course loose your coffee. Now you get to fight the court system to prove your innocence and get the boat back. It wasn't worth the risk losing the boat I worked my ass off to get. Dear Joe, you said that you did not know the definition of the IRS term "Hobby Loss" that means you have many more lessons to learn and many more land mines to avoid. Another telling statement you made to me was, "Im on vacation... gonna buy some souvenirs... an take it home..." BUT other places you are claiming to be a COMPANY and will sell your beans on e-bay and are seeking donations for poor children. With those statements on the web you already screwed yourself. You blabbed your plan on the web! That is evidence fool! You can not have it both ways......... you re either using 10,000 lbs of beans for personal use, which is a ridiculous amount for personal use, or you're a full on coastwise vessel transporting cargo for your company. You can not have it both ways! Besides do you really think Foss, Crowley, Tidewater, Hornbeck, Chouest, Sause, Seacor, SIU, SUP, and IBU are going to let some JIPO hippy boat wannabe undercut their business?!?!?!? Your dealing with Tony Sopranno only here the law and USCG are his Paulie Walnuts. Do it right or don't do it.......................... Bob Bob the point I'm making is the boat is not for hire, as I'm carrying my own cargo. The vessel is un-inspected and the crew is not paid. I did heed your message and went ahead and applied for a cargo freight endorsement on my USCG documentation, my vessel was only registered in the state. The freight endorsement was 29 bucks. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/fees2.htm Sorry about the Capt Kangaroo remark.. I thought you were another of Wilbur's puppets. Joe- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - HI Joe: thanks for the appoogy. Around here not really needed. HOwever, I do beg your attention! Once you pack stuff on a boat, any boat, with the intent (or implied) to sell the stuff you are conducting commerce on a vessel. Just think quacking ducks. Enough said............ I agree, and as long as the items you are selling are cleared in and out of customs, you have the proper receipts, and a safe vessel I can not see what would be considered a problem or illegal. I've spoke with the USCG Public releations officer and have messages into District 8 command, and the MSO Galveston to make sure all is OK and have them over to see the boat and sample some coffee if they can make it. I have the Customs transponder decal, FDA approval, a customs agent, state documentation, and will have federal documentation with a cargo endorsement. Before I end I support your search for profit. Sitting in every galley of every stinking rig/osv/processor or F/T ive been on the top topic Well one of our expressed goals is to be a model of Profit and Substainability for others to follow. I like you.. have done my hitch in the oilfield and have always looked for a way to make a profit with a boat on my schedule and nickle. I've decided I like doing that more than anything. They say if you want to be successful in a career find one you have a passion for and will enjoy. With this type of info in the news every day IMO we can not wait to switch to sail. With public support and the proper product to make a profit with we can force or user in a new way of doing things..sail.. profit and public demand for greener products will be the only way to change to sail (that a 300 dollar drums of oil) . BTW or local gulf is the dirtiest and most polluted by ships. Click or cut and paste to read the rest of the story: http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/274399 Ship pollution kills 60,000 yearly: Study "The sludgy fuel is "basically the dregs of the oil refining process," and contains nearly 2,000 times as much sulphur as the diesel fuel burned in trucks in North America and Europe, says David Marshall, of the Clean Air Task Force, one of the groups that commissioned the study." Best Regards, Joe Good luck.................... Bob- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#3
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Eco-Sailing
On Nov 12, 7:25 am, Joe wrote:
Hello Eco-Joe: When I considered a similar effort while in pursuit of profit on the west coast I kept running into a wall. I may have missed something or not asked the right questions. I hope that you would make a brief list of the organizations/departments and any permits, licenses, documentation needed to make your plan work. The second Rule of Acquisition states Never Give Up... Never Surrender! So, would you mind summarizing what you have already posted other places below? For example, how is your vessel Registered or Documented? You also mentioned USDA, US Customs, Bill of Laden etc. Bob |
#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Eco-Sailing
On Nov 13, 10:40 am, Bob wrote:
On Nov 12, 7:25 am, Joe wrote: Hello Eco-Joe: When I considered a similar effort while in pursuit of profit on the west coast I kept running into a wall. I may have missed something or not asked the right questions. I hope that you would make a brief list of the organizations/departments and any permits, licenses, documentation needed to make your plan work. The second Rule of Acquisition states Never Give Up... Never Surrender! So, would you mind summarizing what you have already posted other places below? For example, how is your vessel Registered or Documented? You also mentioned USDA, US Customs, Bill of Laden etc. Bob Coonass Bob; If you buy food from overseas it has to be registered with the FDA, and the seller facility(me) also has to be registered. This is under the bio-terrorism act of 2002 http://www.fda.gov/oc/bioterrorism/bioact.html Then you need a customs agent..This is where your Hawaii bound daughters plan went wrong, you were thinking about cheating the Govt out of a tarriff. The reason we chose coffee to import is that is is a tarriff free import under the free trade agreement. No Tarriff ...no customs bond. You also have to report your arrival 24hr before reaching port.. We are in the process of declaring our cargo now. Your cargo has to meet import standards...I lost the link, but is not to complicated with coffee, and easy with roasted coffee..no mold worries. There is a standard for green beans. It's all he http://help.cbp.gov/cgi-bin/customs....i=&p_topview=1 I used a customs agent who's been here 20+ years and walks the cargo clearling process many times every day...you could do it yourself but for a very resonable fee you can get an expert who knows all the steps and the players who approve everything. 100's of people here in Houston import coffee every day. After all it is a coffee green port...do you know what that means? (No inventory taxes) A bill of laiden is a manifest of cargo that shows the owner (me). Again my vessel is un-inspected with no paid crew or passengers. http://www.unols.org/publications/ma...m/03Safety.pdf The boat is registered with the state and federal documented with a cargo endorsement. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/nvdc.htm Then when Roger says you better double check you call Galveston MSO, and the 8th district command and ask for a courtesy inspection and a letter of introduction from the area command.. That's all ...Oh and you have to find something to import that offers enough profit to make it worth the effort. Then work your butt off 16 hrs a day for a couple years while jumping through hoops. Hope this helps. Joe |
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