"mr.b" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:35:55 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in some
waysnip

I'd like to invite you to stand in my cockpit sometime and get acquainted
with the business end of my boom when one of your powerboatin' pals comes
by...


Or, be up on the deck trying to reef or shake out a reef. Could be good MOB
practice, however.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Nov 7, 1:54 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
Say, you are right. The rules says, "lights and shapes" right up until the
12 meter exemption.
... You really have to read these things with a fine tooth comb. ...

Actually, rule 27 (g) says "Vessels of less than 12 meters in length,
except those engaged in diving operations, shall not be required to
exhibit the lights and shapes prescribed in this Rule."

I must have read that damn book 20 times when I was studying for my
license and I have no memory of that exception... Pathetic.

You were right and I was wrong. I apologize.

-- Tom.

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:55:43 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

You are responsible for your wake... PBer or sailor.

Yes, everyone knows that they are responsible for *damage* caused by
their wake. That does not include inconvenience or damaged egos
however.

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:16:21 -0500, "mr.b" wrote:

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:35:55 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in some
waysnip

I'd like to invite you to stand in my cockpit sometime and get acquainted
with the business end of my boom when one of your powerboatin' pals comes
by...

Trust me, I've spent a lot of time under, over and around booms, and
have always disliked getting waked as much as anyone else, especially
when closing on a finish line in light air.

The fact is however that wakes and waves are part of being on the
water, and no one should expect a powerboat to slow down just to
improve their comfort level or finish position.

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

Some people roll me, and some get rolled by me.


You *ARE* responsible for your wake!


It's part of boating and being on the water.

It's a part of BAD boating, and being on the water with
ignorant, arrogant power boaters.

Nonsense. Have you ever seen the wake from a freighter or fast tug
boat? If so you'll never complain about sportfish or motoryachts.

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:44:40 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

It is
not written in stone anywhere that the water will always
be flat.


It *IS* written in the books that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR
YOUR WAKE !

Responsible for damage.

No blood, no foul.

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:28:50 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

Trust me, I've spent a lot of time under, over and around booms, and have
always disliked getting waked as much as anyone else, especially when
closing on a finish line in light air.

The fact is however that wakes and waves are part of being on the water,
and no one should expect a powerboat to slow down just to improve their
comfort level or finish position.

that's obvious...but not to the point...the discussion was about the
ignorant and arrogant who pilot their stinktubs with what could be
described as a less than cooperative spirit...like the moron described by
the OP.

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:48:27 -0500, "Scotty" wrote:

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to turn that wheel a
bit. Do you have limp wrists?

Would you tack in front of a freighter or cruise ship and expect them
to alter course for you? The issues are the same, only on a different
scale.

See Colregs Rule 17 (a) (i)

Rule 17

Action by Stand-on Vessel

(a)

(i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way of the other
shall keep her course and speed.

On Nov 7, 9:19 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
... Interestingly, the online version omits the "and shapes". I assume you were
looking at the book which I was going to do the next time I go down to the
boat. ...

I was looking at my book which is current as of Jan 2003. I type this
from my pilot house so it is easy to grab. I notice you are right
that the online version has dropped "and shapes" but if you download
the pdf it is still in there...

While I'm scraping the egg off my face, I want to point out that
google groups has been kind of randomizing my posts. A couple of
posts that I didn't think had gone out just appeared and a couple that
I though I sent are still in the aether... It is kind of embarrassing
to apologize for getting a point wrong only to have another one of my
posts pop-up making the same wrong point. If any more of them appear
saying that the shapes are required please ignore them; I'm not
trying to be difficult or bone headed.

-- Tom.

This is really not a discussion between sailboaters and powerboaters;
its a discussion between boaters who are normally at 8 knots or less,
and those who are over 10 knots.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:19:42 -0500, jeff wrote:

Spoken like a true powerboater. While that may make sense to you,
sailors can generally say, "I get rolled often by irresponsible
powerboaters, and I've never rolled anyone."

The problem is that many sailors think that all powerboaters leaving a
wake are irresponsible just because the wake inconveniences them in
some way,

I'm sure there are a few sailors that think all powerboaters are scum of
the Earth, but I don't think is widely held. However, I firmly believe
that powerboaters tend to subconsciously alter course to pass in front
of other boats rather than pass behind them. In fact, this will
happpen to me several times a day: a powerboat that is on course to pass
well behind me alters course and passes close ahead of me.

and don't even get me started on sailboats who expect the
right-of-way while under power,

In years of sailing in a crowded harbor, I've only seen them demand room
like this a few times. The recreation fishers who claim rights as
"fishing boats" probably outnumbers them a hundred to one.

or who suddenly tack in front of a
moving powerboat and demand the right-of-way.

I admit I've seen this often, but its almost always inexperienced kids
who naively assume that the powerboaters appreciate their needs. When I
left from or returned to my old marina I passed by four sailing schools;
I could pretty much count on at least one boat of kids tacking in front
of me. Away from the schools I hardly ever see this. In fact, the only
places where I often see it is where there are small sailboats near
their moorings or docks.

Fortunately most of
them seem to understand that five blasts on the air horn is a danger
signal.

If you did that near one of the aforementioned youth programs, you'd
probably have a police boat on your butt real quick!

My other pet peeve is sailboats who don't know how to analyze
a crossing situation, not realizing that I've already altered course
to pass astern of them.

Clearly this is your fault:

"Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if
the circumstances of the case admit, be large enough to be readily
apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a succession
of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided."

Frankly, one of my pet peeves is powerboats approaching at very high
speed, making a long gradual turn, and somehow assuming that I'll be
able to figure out what they're doing, and somehow react to it.
Inevitably, they end up crossing my bow at 35 knots.