Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:50:42 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
m:

Something I have always wondered about is that everyone talks about
anchors but nobody seems to talk about the anchor rode.

For example, 3/8" Grade 30 BBB galvanized chain has a working
strength
of 2,650 Lbs., 25% of its breaking strength of 10,600 Lbs. 5/8th
inch
double braid nylon rope has a tensile strength of 15,000 Lbs. and if
we go to Kevlar core double braid we are talking 22,000 Lbs.

Yes, I know - catenary..... but Alain Hylas (Inventor of the 'Spade'
anchor) say the opposite. He says that once the wind gets 20 - 30
knots (a gale force wind) the chain becomes effectively a straight
line, in other words for all practical purposes the catenary is gone
(Note: you can never pull the chain completely straight) and wave
shock is transmitted directly to the anchor.

So why do nearly all cruising yachts use an all chain rode? And, why
does everyone talk about anchors but ignore the "thing" that
attaches
the anchor to the boat?

Bruce-in-Bangkok

There's an excelent article discussing catenary, scope and chain/rode
ratios at http://www.rocna.com/boat-anchors/catenary.php


-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

Read it, about the same thing that Hylas says in excruciating detail.

I'm probably some what jaded with the discussion of anchors but the
N.Z. company sites seem, to me, to be advertizing written in the
format of a scientific test.

Bruce-in-Bangkok

Bruce,

I'd say that you are a bit jaded on this one. I went back and looked at
the article and only found a brief mention of Rocna's products where
they were quoted a holding force. The rest of the article has nothing
to do with Rocna and can be applied to any anchor. I personally like to
see that a company who produces anchors has a good understanding of the
physics.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 03:39:06 -0700, "
wrote:

So it's about value. The Rocna 25 or even 20 would out-perform either
of the two on your bow. The weight is not the defining property.

True but weight helps to ensure a faster set or reset in adverse
conditions.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:47:41 -0000, Skip Gundlach
wrote:

PPS Wayne, what size (the number Spade assigns) is a 120# with them?
Gotta be in the 5 or more hundred range?? See above about my choice
problems...

http://www.spade-anchor-us.com/How_t..._to_order.html

The 120 pound Spade is called the S200. I had mine on order with
Glenn Ashmore for 3 or 4 months before I could get one. That may be
overkill for your boat unless you upgrade to 3/8ths HT chain. There's
not much point to buying more anchor than your rode can hold. I'm
thinking that you'd be happy (and more in balance with your chain)
with a S140 at 66 lbs. S140s may be also be easier to get. These
Rocnas look impressive also but I have no first hand experience with
them. We now have about 400 days of actual on-the-water cruising
experience with the 120# Spade and it is one great anchor.

For what it's worth I sold my old Delta. It was OK about 95% of the
time but those other 5% were becoming worisome. I'm now carrying a
66# Bruce, 45# Spade and a 30# Danforth as spares. That's overkill of
course but I've got the room to store them, the Bruce was on the boat
when I bought it, and the 45# Spade was from my old boat. I'm
thinking about getting a really large Fortress to be used only as an
ultimate storm anchor where there would be plenty of opportunity to
get it set well in advance.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 11:11:59 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:50:42 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Something I have always wondered about is that everyone talks about
anchors but nobody seems to talk about the anchor rode.

For example, 3/8" Grade 30 BBB galvanized chain has a working
strength
of 2,650 Lbs., 25% of its breaking strength of 10,600 Lbs. 5/8th
inch
double braid nylon rope has a tensile strength of 15,000 Lbs. and if
we go to Kevlar core double braid we are talking 22,000 Lbs.

Yes, I know - catenary..... but Alain Hylas (Inventor of the 'Spade'
anchor) say the opposite. He says that once the wind gets 20 - 30
knots (a gale force wind) the chain becomes effectively a straight
line, in other words for all practical purposes the catenary is gone
(Note: you can never pull the chain completely straight) and wave
shock is transmitted directly to the anchor.

So why do nearly all cruising yachts use an all chain rode? And, why
does everyone talk about anchors but ignore the "thing" that
attaches
the anchor to the boat?

Bruce-in-Bangkok

There's an excelent article discussing catenary, scope and chain/rode
ratios at http://www.rocna.com/boat-anchors/catenary.php


-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

Read it, about the same thing that Hylas says in excruciating detail.

I'm probably some what jaded with the discussion of anchors but the
N.Z. company sites seem, to me, to be advertizing written in the
format of a scientific test.

Bruce-in-Bangkok

Bruce,

I'd say that you are a bit jaded on this one. I went back and looked at
the article and only found a brief mention of Rocna's products where
they were quoted a holding force. The rest of the article has nothing
to do with Rocna and can be applied to any anchor. I personally like to
see that a company who produces anchors has a good understanding of the
physics.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org


I wasn't referring to a specific N.Z. site, but read several for the
Rocna, they have got one that is mainly stabbing the other company
that makes a similar anchor. They have references to anchoring "north
of the dock" and "south of the dock" hardly a scientific
specification.

I'd prefer to change the last sentence in your message to read, "I
personally like to see that a company who designed an anchors has a
good understanding of the physics." as not all anchors are
manufactured by people who design them.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

On 2007-11-02 11:03:29 -0400, "Glenn \(s/v Seawing\)"
said:

I like big anchors & lots of chain.

And lots of scope! If I expect a blow, I'm not against having 10:1 scope.

Since I stick to the Chesapeake and rarely anchor in more than 10',
some consider our 250' of rode on the bow excessive.

Then there was the time we couldn't get anywhere shallower than 30' and
the squall was impressive, even for the Bay. We stayed put, others
dragged.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message

Something I have always wondered about is that everyone talks about
anchors but nobody seems to talk about the anchor rode.

There's an excelent article discussing catenary, scope and chain/rode
ratios at http://www.rocna.com/boat-anchors/catenary.php
-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

And another at http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/
--
JimB
Google 'jimb sail' or go www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com
Compares Cruise areas of Europe

On Nov 3, 3:14 am, "JimB" wrote:


And another athttp://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/
--
JimB

Hi, thanks for his link................... I misplaced last year. VERY
HELPFUL ! ! ! !

http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/ro...ces/forces.htm

Loads of information

Bob

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote:

Something I have always wondered about is that everyone talks about
anchors but nobody seems to talk about the anchor rode.

For example, 3/8" Grade 30 BBB galvanized chain has a working
strength
of 2,650 Lbs., 25% of its breaking strength of 10,600 Lbs. 5/8th
inch
double braid nylon rope has a tensile strength of 15,000 Lbs. and if
we go to Kevlar core double braid we are talking 22,000 Lbs.

If you are going to use nylon rode in combination with chain, then the
nylon serves as a spring, stretching with increased load.

Basic reason to select 3-strand nylon of modest size to allow for this
stretch.
.
Yes, I know - catenary..... but Alain Hylas (Inventor of the 'Spade'
anchor) say the opposite. He says that once the wind gets 20 - 30
knots (a gale force wind) the chain becomes effectively a straight
line, in other words for all practical purposes the catenary is gone
(Note: you can never pull the chain completely straight) and wave
shock is transmitted directly to the anchor.

So why do nearly all cruising yachts use an all chain rode? And, why
does everyone talk about anchors but ignore the "thing" that
attaches
the anchor to the boat?


That's why snubbers exist when using all chain rode.

A hank of 3-strand nylon with a chain hook in one end and the other
secured around the mast will accomplish this function.

Lew


I've given up on chain hooks, they come loose more often than not. I
use a rolling hitch instead.

Jim.

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 15:12:33 -0500, Jim wrote:

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote:

Something I have always wondered about is that everyone talks about
anchors but nobody seems to talk about the anchor rode.

For example, 3/8" Grade 30 BBB galvanized chain has a working
strength
of 2,650 Lbs., 25% of its breaking strength of 10,600 Lbs. 5/8th
inch
double braid nylon rope has a tensile strength of 15,000 Lbs. and if
we go to Kevlar core double braid we are talking 22,000 Lbs.

If you are going to use nylon rode in combination with chain, then the
nylon serves as a spring, stretching with increased load.

Basic reason to select 3-strand nylon of modest size to allow for this
stretch.
.
Yes, I know - catenary..... but Alain Hylas (Inventor of the 'Spade'
anchor) say the opposite. He says that once the wind gets 20 - 30
knots (a gale force wind) the chain becomes effectively a straight
line, in other words for all practical purposes the catenary is gone
(Note: you can never pull the chain completely straight) and wave
shock is transmitted directly to the anchor.

So why do nearly all cruising yachts use an all chain rode? And, why
does everyone talk about anchors but ignore the "thing" that
attaches
the anchor to the boat?


That's why snubbers exist when using all chain rode.

A hank of 3-strand nylon with a chain hook in one end and the other
secured around the mast will accomplish this function.

Lew


I've given up on chain hooks, they come loose more often than not. I
use a rolling hitch instead.

Jim.


I modify a grab hook by tack welding a small ring to the tip of the
claw and put a wire tie, or piece of small stuff around the shank and
through the ring. Just cut it off when pulling up the anchor. Keeps
the hook from coming loose.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:displayed e-mail
address is a spam trap)

On Oct 31, 6:46 am, Skip Gundlach wrote:




Hey All:

Found this info regarding CHAIN to LINE splice. The author says taper
splice can give 85%+ connection.

Would ya all read it over and referee it for me. I am still skeptical
of this connections under actual anchoring stormy conditions. i.e.
jerk n yank. ON the other hand, maybe its time to step into the twenty
first century.....

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Stud...hainsplice.htm

Bob