On Oct 7, 9:37 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 17:16:28 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

wrote:
Time for a replacement.

There are no rigging chandleries ay sea.

And a dismasting is a lot more expensive than a new head stay.

OK, lets see. Assume the two wires are actually removed thus reducing
the maximum load by 2/19 to about 90% of its previous capacity. This
seems well, worth the risk to me in terms of cost. However, this is
NOT the case. Filing down the two nicks will basically give the two
wires back most of their strength so I estimate the stay will have AT
LEAST 95% of its pre-nick strength (however, you have to remove the
stress riser produced by the nick or it weakens the whole thing).
The average stay that is less than 5 yrs old where such a nick is
removed is probably stronger than the average 10 yr old stay without
nicks (due to crevice corrosion in the fittings). There is a lot of
overstrength in these stays so reducing it to about 95% is nothing.

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:53:39 -0700, Frogwatch
wrote:

And a dismasting is a lot more expensive than a new head stay.

OK, lets see. Assume the two wires are actually removed thus reducing
the maximum load by 2/19 to about 90% of its previous capacity. This
seems well, worth the risk to me in terms of cost. However, this is
NOT the case. Filing down the two nicks will basically give the two
wires back most of their strength so I estimate the stay will have AT
LEAST 95% of its pre-nick strength (however, you have to remove the
stress riser produced by the nick or it weakens the whole thing).
The average stay that is less than 5 yrs old where such a nick is
removed is probably stronger than the average 10 yr old stay without
nicks (due to crevice corrosion in the fittings). There is a lot of
overstrength in these stays so reducing it to about 95% is nothing.

I'm not disputing your numbers, I just think it's a bad bet.

Price of new headstay: $200 to $300.

Cost of dismasting: $20,000+

On Oct 7, 10:30 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:53:39 -0700, Frogwatch
wrote:

And a dismasting is a lot more expensive than a new head stay.

OK, lets see. Assume the two wires are actually removed thus reducing
the maximum load by 2/19 to about 90% of its previous capacity. This
seems well, worth the risk to me in terms of cost. However, this is
NOT the case. Filing down the two nicks will basically give the two
wires back most of their strength so I estimate the stay will have AT
LEAST 95% of its pre-nick strength (however, you have to remove the
stress riser produced by the nick or it weakens the whole thing).
The average stay that is less than 5 yrs old where such a nick is
removed is probably stronger than the average 10 yr old stay without
nicks (due to crevice corrosion in the fittings). There is a lot of
overstrength in these stays so reducing it to about 95% is nothing.

I'm not disputing your numbers, I just think it's a bad bet.

Price of new headstay: $200 to $300.

Cost of dismasting: $20,000+

By your logic, you should go to 21 wire forestays to increase
strength. Every little bit helps but there is a practical limit and
replacing a perfectly sound forestay seems silly.

Frogwatch wrote:
On Oct 7, 10:30 pm, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:53:39 -0700, Frogwatch
wrote:


And a dismasting is a lot more expensive than a new head stay.

OK, lets see. Assume the two wires are actually removed thus reducing
the maximum load by 2/19 to about 90% of its previous capacity. This
seems well, worth the risk to me in terms of cost. However, this is
NOT the case. Filing down the two nicks will basically give the two
wires back most of their strength so I estimate the stay will have AT
LEAST 95% of its pre-nick strength (however, you have to remove the
stress riser produced by the nick or it weakens the whole thing).
The average stay that is less than 5 yrs old where such a nick is
removed is probably stronger than the average 10 yr old stay without
nicks (due to crevice corrosion in the fittings). There is a lot of
overstrength in these stays so reducing it to about 95% is nothing.

I'm not disputing your numbers, I just think it's a bad bet.

Price of new headstay: $200 to $300.

Cost of dismasting: $20,000+


By your logic, you should go to 21 wire forestays to increase
strength. Every little bit helps but there is a practical limit and
replacing a perfectly sound forestay seems silly.


By YOUR locig, if you don't want to fix it, don't ask!

"Frogwatch" wrote:

Every little bit helps but there is a practical limit and
replacing a perfectly sound forestay seems silly.

"perfectly sound forestay" and "nicked forestay" are mutually
exclusive terms.

Lew

On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 21:22:48 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

"perfectly sound forestay" and "nicked forestay" are mutually
exclusive terms.

Yes, and your insurance company will be quick to point out that
difference if they are asked to pay for a dismasting. Most policies
have exclusions for incidents caused by lack of maintenance, etc., and
many companies are all to quick to look for ways to avoid paying a
major claim. It will be an interesting conversation when you start
explaining to the adjustors how you relieved the stress points on the
damaged strands by filing them down.

Frog,

The man complained of nicking a couple of strands. He did not tell us how
old or what the "general" condition of the forestay is. Why do you conclude
that after your repair this forestay would be perfectly sound? You made
sense with the stress stuff but now you're trying to win an argument by
blowing smoke

Dave M.

"David Martel" wrote
The man complained of nicking a couple of strands. He did not tell us how
old or what the "general" condition of the forestay is.

One man's nick is another man's gouge. The OP didn't really provide any
clues as to how much damage the hacksaw (?!) did. The strands might be
scratched, or they might be nearly severed.

On Oct 8, 9:49 am, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote:
"David Martel" wrote

The man complained of nicking a couple of strands. He did not tell us how
old or what the "general" condition of the forestay is.

One man's nick is another man's gouge. The OP didn't really provide any
clues as to how much damage the hacksaw (?!) did. The strands might be
scratched, or they might be nearly severed.

I simply made a generalization concerning safety of aged wire. I said
nothing about the age of his wire but was simply saying that most
sailboats have wire that should be considered unsafe relative to new
wire that has been "nicked" and then filed. If his wire is old he
should replace it anyway.
He called it a nick, not a gouge. If he was truly concerned, he would
have called it a gouge.
This is all about relative risk. I feel (no proof supplied) that the
risk is minor compared to most things that you do not worry about but
should.
BTW, if this was rod rigging, he would be in serious danger until he
smoothed the nick.
I have looked over various failed (or nearly failed) wire and it
almost always fails at the fitting, not at the wire in spite of some
seriously bad wire I have seen. This was not a scientific survey but
simply a general impression.

On Oct 8, 10:15 am, Frogwatch wrote:
On Oct 8, 9:49 am, "Ernest Scribbler"
wrote:

"David Martel" wrote

The man complained of nicking a couple of strands. He did not tell us how
old or what the "general" condition of the forestay is.

One man's nick is another man's gouge. The OP didn't really provide any
clues as to how much damage the hacksaw (?!) did. The strands might be
scratched, or they might be nearly severed.

I simply made a generalization concerning safety of aged wire. I said
nothing about the age of his wire but was simply saying that most
sailboats have wire that should be considered unsafe relative to new
wire that has been "nicked" and then filed. If his wire is old he
should replace it anyway.
He called it a nick, not a gouge. If he was truly concerned, he would
have called it a gouge.
This is all about relative risk. I feel (no proof supplied) that the
risk is minor compared to most things that you do not worry about but
should.
BTW, if this was rod rigging, he would be in serious danger until he
smoothed the nick.
I have looked over various failed (or nearly failed) wire and it
almost always fails at the fitting, not at the wire in spite of some
seriously bad wire I have seen. This was not a scientific survey but
simply a general impression.

Here is a web site about rigging failu

http://dixielandmarine.com/yachts/DLrigprob.html

Oddly, they do not address failure of the actual wire. However, they
do discuss replacing cracked fittings by cutting the wire and then
using a longer fitting. This might be a reasonable thing to do if the
"nick" is close to the fitting and the wire is fairly new.