"Ryk" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:06:43 -0700, in message

"Capt. JG" wrote:

Sometimes people do motorsail
with their sails full when they're in get-there mode (not that I think it
helps much, but they do).

I find that wind in the sails that would give me about 4 knots and a
low engine throttle setting that would give me about 4 knots can
combine to give me over 6. I can't get to 6 under engine alone without
just gobbling down the fuel and making a lot of noise. So it's faster,
more pleasant, cheaper, and more environmentally friendly than just
proceeding under power when time is a factor.

OTOH, I like it much better when time isn't a factor and I can just
ghost along contentedly at 3 or 4 knots.

Ryk



I suppose this depends on wind speed. If you're travelling at hull speed for
your heel, then no amount of engine is going to get you faster.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:59:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

... I can't get to 6 under engine alone without
just gobbling down the fuel and making a lot of noise. So it's faster,
more pleasant, cheaper, and more environmentally friendly than just
proceeding under power when time is a factor.

OTOH, I like it much better when time isn't a factor and I can just
ghost along contentedly at 3 or 4 knots.

Ryk



I suppose this depends on wind speed. If you're travelling at hull speed for
your heel, then no amount of engine is going to get you faster.

The meaning is clear. But recall that enough engine WILL put you over
hull speed.

Brian W

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:03:48 -0500, in message

Brian Whatcott wrote:

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:59:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

... I can't get to 6 under engine alone without
just gobbling down the fuel and making a lot of noise. So it's faster,
more pleasant, cheaper, and more environmentally friendly than just
proceeding under power when time is a factor.

OTOH, I like it much better when time isn't a factor and I can just
ghost along contentedly at 3 or 4 knots.

Ryk



I suppose this depends on wind speed. If you're travelling at hull speed for
your heel, then no amount of engine is going to get you faster.

The meaning is clear. But recall that enough engine WILL put you over
hull speed.

IME sails are much more effective if you want to get a sail boat to go
over hull speed, as long as you have some breeze.

Ryk

"Ryk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:03:48 -0500, in message

Brian Whatcott wrote:

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:59:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

... I can't get to 6 under engine alone without
just gobbling down the fuel and making a lot of noise. So it's faster,
more pleasant, cheaper, and more environmentally friendly than just
proceeding under power when time is a factor.

OTOH, I like it much better when time isn't a factor and I can just
ghost along contentedly at 3 or 4 knots.

Ryk



I suppose this depends on wind speed. If you're travelling at hull speed
for
your heel, then no amount of engine is going to get you faster.

The meaning is clear. But recall that enough engine WILL put you over
hull speed.

IME sails are much more effective if you want to get a sail boat to go
over hull speed, as long as you have some breeze.

Ryk



Huh?

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/technic.../hullspeed.htm


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
...

Despite what that article says, you can absolutely exceed hull speed
using sails alone. Think of hull speed as the point where the law of
diminishing returns kicks in. To go slightly faster, you need a LOT
more power beyond that point.



This is one of those "Yes, but" things. Yes, you can go faster than hull
speed with enough power, but there is still a limit. And there's a point at
which your rig simply can't stand up to that much power, and you are
dismasted. Surfing allows a boat to go much faster than hull speed, but it's
also tricky and requires expert helmsmanship.

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:04:55 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

This is one of those "Yes, but" things. Yes, you can go faster than hull
speed with enough power, but there is still a limit. And there's a point at
which your rig simply can't stand up to that much power, and you are
dismasted. Surfing allows a boat to go much faster than hull speed, but it's
also tricky and requires expert helmsmanship.

There are sail boats that will plane off at literally 2 and 3 times
theoretical hull speed, skimming along the top of the water. It's all
a function of weight, length, bottom shape, sail area, etc.

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:53:17 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

There are sail boats that will plane off at literally 2 and 3 times
theoretical hull speed, skimming along the top of the water. It's all
a function of weight, length, bottom shape, sail area, etc.

Class A racing scows. 38 feet, 35MPH. At least one of the persons
commenting on hull speed did mention ' displacement hull '.
Hull speed is meaningless for planing hulls.

Casady

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:04:55 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

This is one of those "Yes, but" things. Yes, you can go faster than hull
speed with enough power, but there is still a limit. And there's a point
at
which your rig simply can't stand up to that much power, and you are
dismasted. Surfing allows a boat to go much faster than hull speed, but
it's
also tricky and requires expert helmsmanship.

There are sail boats that will plane off at literally 2 and 3 times
theoretical hull speed, skimming along the top of the water. It's all
a function of weight, length, bottom shape, sail area, etc.

Sure there are -- but they aren't displacement hulls, either.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:04:55 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..

Despite what that article says, you can absolutely exceed hull speed
using sails alone. Think of hull speed as the point where the law of
diminishing returns kicks in. To go slightly faster, you need a LOT
more power beyond that point.



This is one of those "Yes, but" things. Yes, you can go faster than hull
speed with enough power, but there is still a limit. And there's a point
at
which your rig simply can't stand up to that much power, and you are
dismasted. Surfing allows a boat to go much faster than hull speed, but
it's
also tricky and requires expert helmsmanship.


Surfing is not required to exceed hull speed using just sails alone.
It is not a "yes but thing", either.

Where did your addition of "yes, but there is a limit" come from? If
you want to start moviong the goalposts, I guarantee, that if you
attach a big enough rocket engine to a sailboat, it will go a lot
faster than you ever anticipated. The only limit is how much power you
have available, and at what speed, the hull collapses and breaks up.



Rocket engines would be silly. There is a point at which, regardless of how
much engine power you have, the propeller will be unable to do anything but
cavitate and the hull will not go faster through the water because of
drag/resistance. We are talking about displacement vessels, of course.

I did not say that surfing was necessary, I only offered that as an example
where displacement vessels can easily exceed hull speed.

And with wind power, the sails will rip themselves to shreds or the vessel
will be dismasted before the boat will exceed hull speed by any significant
degree.

Can displacement vessels exceed hull speed? Yes, but...

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
...


Rocket engines would be silly.

almost as silly as putting ballast in empty containers.

..

And with wind power, the sails will rip themselves to
shreds or the vessel
will be dismasted before the boat will exceed hull speed
by any significant
degree.


are you sailing a MacGregor?

SBV