Skip Gundlach wrote in
ups.com:

A very slight haze had developed, and increased as we watched,
slowly obscuring our view, but we were constantly entertained,
including by seeing the transit of many satellites, in mostly
north-south orientation, but one which was more east-west. One
was very large - perhaps it was the space station? (No, not
really, as it's a very far-out orbit and would not move as fast
as these did. Like our weather satellites, these took only a few
minutes from horizon to horizon. As I type this, the one
overhead, delivering the current picture, will have finished its
path in our view in less than 8 minutes.) As this was a new moon
phase, we got the very best of the light pollution conditions
other than being well offhsore. There was a little light haze on
the horizon, which diminished the view somewhat, but otherwise
the conditions were excellent



The Jpass generator that sends you the automated email I get whenever my
selected birds are overhead at sunrise/sunset is on:
http://science.nasa.gov/RealTime/Jpass/PassGenerator/

On Aug 14, 4:31 pm, Richard Kollmann
wrote:
...The belt slipping is preventing a
battery fire or boat explosion right now ...

You are right that I haven't been following Skip's post as closely as
I'd like (my reader does horrible things to his hard returns). So I
don't know what his set-up is like. Still, I don't follow what you
are suggesting. Are you saying that his controllers are allowing his
alternators to put out more than their rated amperage? I've got AGMs
and they can absorb all the amps my two 120 amp single belt
alternators can put out for up to half an hour when I have deeply
discharged them. Even under those conditions good belts seem to last
and so do the alternators (though my smart controller does add some
protection for them). I don't claim any knowledge of these things but
I've never heard of belts being used like fuses. My car uses a belt
for the timing and I'm having a hard time groking a condition where
having it slip would protect anything. So, I ask in genuine
ignorance, are the belts intended to be sacrificial or is Skip's some
kind of special case?

-- Tom.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:52:49 +0000, Larry wrote:

Skip Gundlach wrote in
oups.com:

A very slight haze had developed, and increased as we watched,
slowly obscuring our view, but we were constantly entertained,
including by seeing the transit of many satellites, in mostly
north-south orientation, but one which was more east-west. One
was very large - perhaps it was the space station? (No, not
really, as it's a very far-out orbit and would not move as fast
as these did. Like our weather satellites, these took only a few
minutes from horizon to horizon. As I type this, the one
overhead, delivering the current picture, will have finished its
path in our view in less than 8 minutes.) As this was a new moon
phase, we got the very best of the light pollution conditions
other than being well offhsore. There was a little light haze on
the horizon, which diminished the view somewhat, but otherwise
the conditions were excellent



The N-S birds are LEOs, low-earth-orbits on the edge of the atmosphere.
These include constellations of satellites for GPS, GLASNOSS (Russian),
Marisat, Iridium, Sirius and the other radio company, etc. The sky is
filled with them at differing altitudes to prevent collisions. The big
bird was the ISS, which I get an automated message from NASA on in email
every time it will be across my view in Charleston at dusk or dawn. It's
HUGE and getting bigger by the year. You don't even need binoculars to
see its solar panel array! It takes about 9 minutes horizon to horizon
if it's passing through your Zenith, less in arcs.

One of the coolest things was when the ISS was passing overhead, I
took my laptop w/wifi outside and was watching on NASA's website
astronauts working on the space station in real time. I could look at
the laptop and see them fiddling with something and then look up and
see a super bright star zipping across the sky.

Steve

Tom, let me describe three actual serious cases where alternators and
a charger tried to produce more amperage than battery could accept:
1. Owner adjusted smart voltage regulator to 14.2 volts for bulk
charging rate. After repeated belt failures it was found that Link
1000 meter had an error on voltage scale of one amp. When the
alternator received a field current asking to deliver a bulk charge of
15.2 volts for a preset time of one hour the amperage went to max and
alternator belt was overloaded.
2. Lightning struck boat while motoring down ICW in poor visibility.
Alternator went wild putting out enough amperage to cause number 4
output wire to turn red hot and started a small fire. The open
question was it the two batteries that shorted out first or the
alternator?
3. Boat left unattended for a day connected to shore power when Heart
25 inverter charger sensed a low voltage caused by a one of six
batteries in the house bank developing an internal short. Charger went
to maybe its max charge rate of 125 amps overheating all batteries
filling the boat with flammable gas fumes.
It would seam from Skip's reports that everything thing points to a
battery problem because charging current from any source, Alternator,
Charger, Solar Wind and Honda generator results in the same poor
battery performance. I projected when the refrigeration was selected
for this boat that the daily amp-hours for total boat would be at
least 200 amp-hrs.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:49:58 -0700, Richard Kollmann
wrote:

Tom, let me describe three actual serious cases where alternators and
a charger tried to produce more amperage than battery could accept:

I'm not sure that is the case on Skip's boat. He's got a bank of 4
L16s in series parallel which should be about 800 AH of capacity in
new condition. In bulk charge mode they should be able to accept 150
to 200 amps of charging current. Assuming the alternator is rated for
that kind of current, it needs to produce that much plus any house
loads active at the same time. That's too much for a single belt in
my experience even if everything else is perfect.

Tom, What would cause the alternator belt to slip if batteries
indicate they are fully charged? And why do batteries except a full
charge so quickly? Your example assumes the battery bank still has a
capacity of 800 AH and is in good condition.

He probably changed the AMP lamp on the dash to a prettier blue one,
causing an idle current increase capability in the rotor.

To be fair, I should say "Might have."

This could energize a hopped up output in the alt, working it toward
death. If it gets hot, it might cool down and stretch the belt less,
if a proper, dimmer alt lamp was reinstalled.

Theraputically, if a resistor was put in series with a too heavy lamp,
it's brightness or warmness (not a dashboard bus dimmer control) and
the alternator excitation and workload might diminish.

Removing the lamp might deactivate the alternator altogether.

It would depend on who jerry wired it in the beginning.

Charge voltage versus specific gravity measurements would determine
this parameter.

Pulley belts need to be in line and adequately wrapped and tensioned.

Removing a bank containing a short battery might cure all of this.
Battery terminal voltage out of circuit lies. A load cell is a good
way to test a battery.

Terry K

On Aug 15, 3:23 am, Richard Kollmann
wrote:
Tom, What would cause the alternator belt to slip if batteries
indicate they are fully charged? And why do batteries except a full
charge so quickly? Your example assumes the battery bank still has a
capacity of 800 AH and is in good condition.

Richard, I think that was Wayne's post you were replying to. But,
thanks for the cases. They are interesting and scary. I'm afraid that
I am still missing something though. The belts have to be up to
dealing with the rated loads on the alternator or the system will
never work right. There should be fuses protecting the alternator
wires. So how do you set up a belt to protect the system and also
have it accept the full alternator load in the no fault condition?

As to your questions, belt slip can be caused by lots of stuff
including bad bearings, bad belts and loose or bad brackets... Having
the batteries come up to full voltage quickly does suggest to me that
the bank has a fault.

-- Tom.