On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 03:12:13 +0000, Larry wrote:

Herodotus wrote in
:

Ever noticed how some people, especially
novices start to move their lips in prayer when in what they think is
a threatening situation on a boat?



Yes. I think the reaction is inbred as we are washed over in religious
education from birth, even in families with no religion, by media, on the
street, in the schools, in contact with other humans. Brainwashed from
Birth is a powerful imprint.

My parrots think I'm God. I've been brainwashing them with it for over 20
years....(c;

EVERYONE has just GOT to be on a GUILT TRIP! This is ALL YOUR FAULT AND
YOU NEED TO BE PUNISHED!!

Come on Larry. Not all religions are like that. Neither Zen nor
Islamic Sufism is based on reward in the afterlife.

Also, ever heard of Baccanalia? It was quite big in the later days of
the Roman Empire. Also what about the ancient Babylonians? Before she
could get married, every girl had to sit in the temple precinct and
take any comer who threw money in her lap. Hindu temples had their
sacred prostitutes also. No guilt trip there. I would think it quite
the opposite. Can you imagine the number of people who would be
regular church goers in the US if this form of worship to the God was
instituted in say, the Episcopalean church. They'd have to add
cubicles like confession boxes through. I'll bet you would soon get
religion then.

Besides, as Huxley wrote: "A firm conviction of the material reality
of Hell never prevented medieval Christians from doing what their
ambition, lust or covetousness suggested."

Just a thought.

Peter (Sybarite)

Herodotus wrote in
:

reward in the afterlife

I'm sorta partial to the multiple virgins reward, but can't stand the
rest of religion....any religion.







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....
I'm sorta partial to the multiple virgins reward, but can't stand the
rest of religion....

Scholars disagree but some say the reward is three white raisins...
Could leave a spirit cold at night...

-- Tom.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Herodotus wrote in
:

reward in the afterlife

I'm sorta partial to the multiple virgins reward, but can't stand the
rest of religion....any religion.




So the question is, whatever did those poor virgins do to deserve such
punishment?

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:52:14 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:


"Larry" wrote in message
.. .
Herodotus wrote in
:

reward in the afterlife

I'm sorta partial to the multiple virgins reward, but can't stand the
rest of religion....any religion.




So the question is, whatever did those poor virgins do to deserve such
punishment?

I imagine that it was part of the accepted ritual of coming of age in
Babylonian society. It is mentioned in the literature that ugly ones
could sit there quite a while and that some fathers arranged for an
acceptable man to be ready as soon as their daughter sat down to do
her temple service to the god.

It must have been rather horrible to have some grubby smelly old man
throw a coin in your lap though. Can't have been much different from
the signorial rights of medieval squires and lords - first night with
the bride on her wedding night.

Ahh! those were the good old days when women were chattels and knew
their place and real men (like friend Wilbur) made all the
decisons...... sigh. Now men such as I have been reduced to seeking
their wife's advice on all sorts of things.

BTW the Babylonian temple worship catered for all tastes. They had
young boys as well. It is notable that the original name for the
Judaic-Christian-Moslem single god was El-Shaddah (later shortened to
'El') who was represented by a huge upright stone phallus

Getting off topic here.

Peter

"Herodotus" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:52:14 -0500, "KLC Lewis"

So the question is, whatever did those poor virgins do to deserve such
punishment?

I imagine that it was part of the accepted ritual of coming of age in
Babylonian society. It is mentioned in the literature that ugly ones
could sit there quite a while and that some fathers arranged for an
acceptable man to be ready as soon as their daughter sat down to do
her temple service to the god.

It must have been rather horrible to have some grubby smelly old man
throw a coin in your lap though. Can't have been much different from
the signorial rights of medieval squires and lords - first night with
the bride on her wedding night.

Ahh! those were the good old days when women were chattels and knew
their place and real men (like friend Wilbur) made all the
decisons...... sigh. Now men such as I have been reduced to seeking
their wife's advice on all sorts of things.

BTW the Babylonian temple worship catered for all tastes. They had
young boys as well. It is notable that the original name for the
Judaic-Christian-Moslem single god was El-Shaddah (later shortened to
'El') who was represented by a huge upright stone phallus

Getting off topic here.

Peter

Ya, but I was referring to the poor "72 Virgins" doled-out to males who
arrive in Paradise.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:15:02 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:



Ya, but I was referring to the poor "72 Virgins" doled-out to males who
arrive in Paradise.

All those virgins sounds a bit boring to me, almost as boring as being
dressed in a white robe sitting on a cloud and playing a harp, Besides
it would be rather uncomfortable lying on your back to rest with those
bloody great wings. Also, most of the devout believers who are assured
that they are going upstairs when they die are, to put it quite
bluntly, terribly boring and uninteresting. I would believe myself
cast into Hades if I were forced to spend any time at all in company
with them. Besides are some of the pleasures we enjoy are the
forbidden ones - like cream cakes, tiramasu, key lime pie (with lots
of whipped cream) and fried foods. The guilt is part of the pleasure.

Our sect of Islam prefers to concentrate on the rewards on earth, not
in some mystical hereafter. You either make your own heaven or hell on
this earth - as I said, a bit like Zen Bhuddism. Cause and effect and
so on. Look up Rumi in Wikipedia.

Thus, I go back to my original response to Larry. Perhaps prayer is
silent talking to one's inner self. The sailor's prayers as posted
above seem to be pleas for help uttered mechanically out of fear.

Interesting to observe that even the nihilistic and atheistic Larry
has a spark of religious belief. Did you note how his interest in
religion picked up when he thought about the virgins? I'll make you a
good Moslem yet Larry.

cheers
Peter