On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:47:43 -0700, "
wrote:

... So you can cruise and you can
telephone. But it's not the same as doing one or the other and doing it
well. ...

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that I'm cruising less well
when, lets say, just for the sake of historical accuracy, I'm anchor
down in Kanton Atoll on a day when it's so calm I can't tell where the
air ends and the water starts and so hot that even the flies have
taken cover in the shade I call my father on my Iridium phone? Are
you telling me that this offends you in some way? Do we need to be
reduced to sail cloth pants and latitude sailing to be cruising
"well"?

-- Tom.


Of course it offends him. He's sitting in a trailer-sailer where he
has lived for the past 20 years and nobody will talk to him on the
phone..


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


I'm not bitter I'm just fed up with the way people don't seem to be able
to prioritize these days. Why is it that fully half the people you see
walking down a sidewalk or shopping in a store or eating in a restaurant
or driving their automobile are having cell phone conversations. It's
not necessary to be doing so and it's dangerous and most of the time
it's rude.

If you're off cruising then enjoy cruising. If you can't enjoy an
activity without having to be talking on the phone 24/7 about it then
why are you really doing it? So, somebody is "anxious" about your
situation. Too bad! It's their way of thinking and their negativism.
Maybe if they weren't catered to 24/7 they might have a chance to
develop a more mature and realistic attitude. I was always taught that
no news is good news. I have found that old adage to be very accurate.

There are some things that people do like climbing a mountain, or
cruising far offshore or scuba diving where it's reasonable to expect
they will be out of touch with civilization. What makes people think
they are so important that everybody in the world must have instant
access to them and they to the world? Is it an ego problem or is it just
a bad habit? I think it's some of both.

Family and friends should allow a man some space and some freedom
without making him feel guilty about having to constantly keep in touch.
Having keeping in touch as a priority when you're way out on the ocean
somewhere cruising getting away from it all seems an unnecessary burden
to all parties concerned. How can anybody get away from it all while
taking it all with them?

Does anybody really know what it means to cruise or voyage anymore?


No argument except I think you are taking this to an extreme. I lived
aboard and sailed for 6 years with nothing at all in communications. I
didn't even have a VHF 'ship to shore'. That was ok.

I used to joke with my (now late) wife that those guys who had CB's were
hoping to get the traffic reports from truckers - or why else did they
have them? I thought it silly.

However, today we have new tech. If I were to sail again far offshore
like I did singlehanded in 2002-2003, I'd like to be able to call my
daughter and tell her things were ok with me. She was very anxious with
me offshore last time. I call to make myself feel better about her
anxiety at my being offshore. It's not like a 14 year old girl can 'give
me space' or I should expect it from her.

This does not mean that I'd be chatting continually with her or anybody
or that I'd scream for help if a seacock developed a seep. In fact, I
don't see rescue at sea as something which would occur no matter what
electronics I have. I don't see the Navy or whatever having enough
interest in me to do anything.

Being on a cruise and continually chatting with folks on shore about
what their TV stars are up to is one thing. Just being able to call my
daughter, if I see fit to, once a week or so, is another thing.

Can't you see there is a distinction?

-paul

wrote in message
oups.com...
... So you can cruise and you can
telephone. But it's not the same as doing one or the other and doing
it
well. ...

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that I'm cruising less well
when, lets say, just for the sake of historical accuracy, I'm anchor
down in Kanton Atoll on a day when it's so calm I can't tell where the
air ends and the water starts and so hot that even the flies have
taken cover in the shade I call my father on my Iridium phone? Are
you telling me that this offends you in some way? Do we need to be
reduced to sail cloth pants and latitude sailing to be cruising
"well"?

-- Tom.

As long as you aren't doing sailing and telephoning -at the same time-
it doesn't offend me. What offends me is people doing both, trying to do
both, at the same time and sooner or later that's what it amounts to. I
don't want people answering their telephones when they're at the helm of
their boats. It's as bad as doing so while driving a car and sooner or
later those who carry cell phones with them in their cars end up using
them when they're driving.

And sooner or later your phone will make you lazy and inept just like
the poor fella further up this thread who couldn't even figure out how
to get up the mast without making telephone calls and asking people how
to do it safely. That's pretty disgusting in my humble opinion. People
like him, when they get their friends advice about going up the mast,
and then they manage to fall off will likely crawl to their cell phone,
dial up their lawyer and enquire as to how to sue their friends for
giving bad advice. That's how the world works in most cases these days
and telephones are the cause of all the idiocy in many cases. Simply
stated your cell phone allows you to discharge your responsibilities in
rude, obnoxious, and selfish ways. Instead of planning and being
prepared you end up acting on a whim, reacting and being totally
unprepared. "I'm not worried about taking personal responsibility for my
ship. If something goes wrong, I'll just telephone my way out of." So
stupid. I heard a 911 recording of a woman being stabbed to death. It
was horrible but it demonstrates my point. WTF's the woman doing calling
911 when she's being stabbed to death? Maybe she should have not relied
on her phone to pull her fat out of the fire. Maybe she should have
installed bolts on her door, maybe she should have bought a gun and
learned how to use it. Maybe she should have learned karate. Noooo,
instead she relied an the phone and lost her life because of it. What
you're doing is the same thing just to a lesser degree.

And think about this, when you call your dear old dad under the
conditions you describe it's probably the middle of the night in his
part of the world. Pretty rude getting him out of bed because you called
because you had nothing better to do, isn't it? I'll say it again. Cell
phones are the instrument of the selfish, the arrogant, the
world-revolves-around-me type. That's how I see it at least. Lose the
friggin' telephone when you're cruising. Do cruising right. Do it
traditionally. You're cruising to get away from it all. Why take it all
with you? Probably because you're afraid to admit to yourself the world
ACTUALLY CAN get along without you quite easily...

Wilbur Hubbard

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 22:29:52 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
On Aug 1, 3:52 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
...
The disdain I hold others in is caused by their causing problems
for
me
and other real self-reliant sailors by their not taking sailing
seriously. ...

You want to explain exactly how it causes you a problem when I phone
my old dad from a remote Pacific Atoll to see if he's ok? I'm
selfish
enough that I'd go cruising even if it meant that I couldn't call
home, but since I can why shouldn't I?

-- Tom.

You can do what pleases you. My point is something my dear old Dad
taught me before he died. He told me that if you try doing two things
at
one time you'll end up doing neither well. So you can cruise and you
can
telephone. But it's not the same as doing one or the other and doing
it
well.

Wilbur Hubbard


In other words, you can't walk and chew gum at the same time?

Well, I don't suppose you can.

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

Words of wisdom from somebody who claims to be a world cruiser but who
spends all his time stuck in a marina and on the Internet 24/7. Did you
know, Bruce, that you're stuck in a marina in a part of the world most
cruisers say is one of the better cruising grounds. Why aren't you out
cruising? Seeing the sights by water? And, don't give me this monsoon
crap!

Wilbur Hubbard

"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 1, 4:26 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Paul Cassel" wrote in message

There are some things that people do like climbing a mountain, or
cruising far offshore or scuba diving where it's reasonable to expect
they will be out of touch with civilization.

Sorry to tell yo but only girly men use tanks (as in sports scuba).
The only manly path to the under world is Free Diving. Just water,
god, and the air in your lungs..... I also prefer to drink alone and
eat my fish raw. Argggg! But let me tell ya right now. Hve a new epirb
and going to get an Irridium phone. Hell, it use to be $10 bucks a
min. Ive seen poor saps whine a pay check away ytalkig to their
girlfriends at sea. Sad..............
Basalt Bob


AGREED! Men who spend a lot of time on the phone are girly-men! The
only legitimate use for telephone when used by men is for business
purposes. A man gossiping on the telephone is no man...

Wilbur Hubbard




Does anybody really know what it means to cruise or voyage anymore?

Wilbur Hubbard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
. ..
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


I'm not bitter I'm just fed up with the way people don't seem to be
able to prioritize these days. Why is it that fully half the people
you see walking down a sidewalk or shopping in a store or eating in a
restaurant or driving their automobile are having cell phone
conversations. It's not necessary to be doing so and it's dangerous
and most of the time it's rude.

If you're off cruising then enjoy cruising. If you can't enjoy an
activity without having to be talking on the phone 24/7 about it then
why are you really doing it? So, somebody is "anxious" about your
situation. Too bad! It's their way of thinking and their negativism.
Maybe if they weren't catered to 24/7 they might have a chance to
develop a more mature and realistic attitude. I was always taught
that no news is good news. I have found that old adage to be very
accurate.

There are some things that people do like climbing a mountain, or
cruising far offshore or scuba diving where it's reasonable to expect
they will be out of touch with civilization. What makes people think
they are so important that everybody in the world must have instant
access to them and they to the world? Is it an ego problem or is it
just a bad habit? I think it's some of both.

Family and friends should allow a man some space and some freedom
without making him feel guilty about having to constantly keep in
touch. Having keeping in touch as a priority when you're way out on
the ocean somewhere cruising getting away from it all seems an
unnecessary burden to all parties concerned. How can anybody get away
from it all while taking it all with them?

Does anybody really know what it means to cruise or voyage anymore?


No argument except I think you are taking this to an extreme. I lived
aboard and sailed for 6 years with nothing at all in communications. I
didn't even have a VHF 'ship to shore'. That was ok.

I used to joke with my (now late) wife that those guys who had CB's
were hoping to get the traffic reports from truckers - or why else did
they have them? I thought it silly.

However, today we have new tech. If I were to sail again far offshore
like I did singlehanded in 2002-2003, I'd like to be able to call my
daughter and tell her things were ok with me. She was very anxious
with me offshore last time. I call to make myself feel better about
her anxiety at my being offshore. It's not like a 14 year old girl can
'give me space' or I should expect it from her.

This does not mean that I'd be chatting continually with her or
anybody or that I'd scream for help if a seacock developed a seep. In
fact, I don't see rescue at sea as something which would occur no
matter what electronics I have. I don't see the Navy or whatever
having enough interest in me to do anything.

Being on a cruise and continually chatting with folks on shore about
what their TV stars are up to is one thing. Just being able to call my
daughter, if I see fit to, once a week or so, is another thing.

Can't you see there is a distinction?

-paul

I can't see the distinction. In my opinion, my relatives just have to
accept the fact that I'll be out of touch. I will not enable them to be
worrywarts every time they don't get a daily or weekly telephone call.
That's not the real world and my relatives must accept the fact I live
in the real world even if they choose to live in a technological fantasy
land.

Just once, I'd like to hear another man saying something like this: "I
call my (relative or loved ones) more because it makes ME feel more
secure and necessary than because it makes them less anxious."

Go ahead, be honest. Admit you're doing it mostly for YOU. Don't try to
beat around the bush and couch it in terms of easing somebody else's
mind. That's a cop-out and you know it.

Wilbur Hubbard

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:48:32 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Rusty" blank wrote in message
m...
I think it's time to get an Iridium satellite phone. We're gong to
have
way
too much time away from cell sites.

Any suggestions as to a cruiser-friendly source of hardware and
airtime?

Thanks,
Rusty


It's my observation that people who have to have a phone so they can
blabbermouth 24/7 while out cruising should just stay home. If you
need
to be plugged in to the communications grid 24/7 you're not cut out
for
cruising - just stay home and leave the waterways open for real
cruisers, please. Today's men are turning into girly men. Bunch of
sissies. Spend the money on a EPIRB instead. Cruise and try shutting
your mouth for a week or a month. You might learn something for the
first time in your life.

Wilbur Hubbard


Wilbur,

While I realize that weather is of little interest to you on your
trailer-sailer anchored in your snug little Bayou but to people out
there on the water it is one of their primary concerns and there are
three basic ways to get weather reports once you're out of sight of
land (1) H.F. radio, (2) Iridium phone or (3) satellite (immersat, for
example).

I've done cost comparisons and going from nothing to a complete
installation is cheaper using Iridium so more and more cruisers are
opting for Iridium as weather reports through Iridium can be received
24 hours a day while H.F. is greatly dependent upon daily propagation
variations.

As you say, " try shutting your mouth for a week or a month. You might
learn something for the first time in your life."


Correction, there is a fourth and more reliable way of getting weather
reports. That's knowing how to look at the glass and the sky and being
able to interpret what they tell you for your part of the world. How do
you think sailors got around before your exclusive reliance on
technology?

Your little do-it-like-a-lubber screed simply reinforces my opinion that
you're no sailor.
But, then again, anybody who has good opportunity to do coastal cruising
in your part of the world, (considered premiere cruising grounds) but
instead sits in a marina on the Internet probably won't ever understand
that.

Wilbur Hubbard

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:52:28 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
news:46b1165c
:


"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
Much extraneous matter snipped


There are also times when you NEED a reliable phone connection to
resolve a problem. You can't rely on e-mail. You need to discuss
issues with people and get them to do things in real time. One time
I
needed to talk to someone to find out of some rollers on the top of
the
mast would support my weight as my main halyard was jammed and I
needed
to go up the mast while underway to un-jam it (I only have 1 main
halyard).

Sailing by committee. Oh yes, that's the way it's done today. That's
the
way people these days think it should be done. What ever happened to
self-reliance, personal responsiblity and knowing your boat? You
should
already know if the halyards and sheeves can hold your weight. You
should have installed mast steps beforehand oo you would not have to
wonder if relying on halyards was safe. But you didn't and you didn't
because your phone allows you to sail by committee. It allows you to
be
uninformed. It allows you to be slothful. That's not sailing.


Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur, you just to get another boat! Or at least hang around a bigger
boat for a day. I'm sure that when you are sitting on that overgrown
dinghy with no amenities and a 9.9 H.P gasoline outboard as your only
power source you might be deluded into thinking that you can fix
anything that breaks but if you were ever on a real boat you'd find
that you were woefully ignorant of how things work.

In the example cited above, if you are going to depend on a rope to
hold you some 50 or 60 feet in the air you certainly should be aware
of whether it is going to hold, or not. Watch any professional rigger
get ready to make a climb -- watch them check the safety rope foot by
foot.

And, mast steps? Have you got mast steps on that trailer-sailer you
have lived on for 20 years? What a waste. A real sailor would just
grab the shrouds and climb the mast - don't even try to say this can't
be done because I watched a Frenchman do it in the Singapore Straits.
A 25 ft. boat and up the mast he went, no steps, no ropes, just
reached out and grabbed the shrouds and up he went.

Wilbur, old boy, if you are going to talk the talk you got to walk the
walk. No more sitting in the bayou there, you got to get out here on
the water with the rest of us.

Sorry, but I won't be joining you "on the water" as I don't believe in
being tied up in a slip in a marina. . . I'd just as soon rent a
single-wide in a low rent trailer park!

I just keep cruising and anchoring out, thank you.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
anews.com:


wrote in message
oups.com...
... So you can cruise and you can
telephone. But it's not the same as doing one or the other and doing
it
well. ...

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that I'm cruising less well
when, lets say, just for the sake of historical accuracy, I'm anchor
down in Kanton Atoll on a day when it's so calm I can't tell where
the air ends and the water starts and so hot that even the flies have
taken cover in the shade I call my father on my Iridium phone? Are
you telling me that this offends you in some way? Do we need to be
reduced to sail cloth pants and latitude sailing to be cruising
"well"?

-- Tom.


And sooner or later your phone will make you lazy and inept just like
the poor fella further up this thread who couldn't even figure out how
to get up the mast without making telephone calls and asking people
how to do it safely. That's pretty disgusting in my humble opinion.
People like him, when they get their friends advice about going up the
mast, and then they manage to fall off will likely crawl to their cell
phone, dial up their lawyer and enquire as to how to sue their friends
for giving bad advice.


Ocne again you're making assumptions about things that you know nothing
about. In this case I was calling someone who used to work for Freedom
to ask what the load rating was for the flag halyard rollers. As it
turns out, the rollers designed to support a person. I wasn't about to
go up the mast while underway without checking. It sounds like you
would have goen up as you wouldn't have had any other option. I did and
I took it.

You act like I know nothing about sailing. I typically spend 6-7 months
a year sailing and I've logged over 30,000 miles. I believe that know a
lot about my boat and sailing. Check my web site if you have any doubt.

You're just an arrogant SOB who thinks that everyone should do things
your way. Based upon your discourse in this and other threads, I'm very
glad that most of the world isn't like you. I suggest that you go back
to alt.sailing.asa where you're quite prolific and the people in that
group enjoy bashing one another.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

P.S. In one thread you said

In my opinion, my relatives just have to accept the fact that I'll be
out of touch. I will not enable them to be worrywarts every time they
don't get a daily or weekly telephone call.

Did you ever consider that they don't want to hear from you if you act
this way towards them?

First of all, thanks to Tom for his response to my question.

Second, empathy is a human quality that allows one to place themselves in
anothers shoes and try to understand their viewpoint. What is 'Right' for
one person is not the same as it is for another. Those with the human
quality of empathy understand that. I must conclude Wilbur is something less
than human.

Third. This sure is entertaining!

Thanks
Rusty