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#41
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Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
I understand because you're more like most of the people these days. But that doesn't make it right or even productive. Your daughter points out the difference in our outlooks. While your daughter was anxious about your well-being mine just said, "Have fun, Daddy, and be careful. I'll see you when you get back." You raised your daughter to be just like her Dad - a dependent person who worries. I raised mine to be just like me - an independent person who doesn't worry. She's somebody who is secure and happy and does not derive her happiness from an old man and I wouldn't have her any other way . . . Look at it this way. When you die your poor daughter will be grief-stricken and lost while mine will say in her mind, "Fair winds, Daddy, wherever you may be sailing now. It was good knowing you and I will always love you for raising me to appreciate the way the world works and to enjoy the positive and to reject the negative." Now you know nothing about my dependency or independence. You also make a great noise about being one salty seaman who is out there sailing the seas (in what? where? with what crew?) while I know what I've done. For sure, I can't prove to you that I have spent long time at sea both with my (now late) wife and singlehanding. I also expect to be out there again with my new wife. I can't prove it to you nor can you prove to me that you can tell which end of an oar goes in the water. However, the blase claim you make about your daughter's attitude toward you and even your death is chilling. For you to die and she to shrug her shoulders and say, "Fair winds" and that's that isn't natural of humans. Are you autistic? Is your daughter? I"m not teasing you. Instead I sense in you not only a complete lack of affect, but an anger to those who show affect. -paul |
#42
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On Aug 2, 10:53 pm, Jere Lull wrote:
How much IS Iridium these days? Try this: http://store.sattransusa.com/irid-pho-9505a.html Bob |
#43
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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![]() "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in anews.com: wrote in message oups.com... ... So you can cruise and you can telephone. But it's not the same as doing one or the other and doing it well. ... I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that I'm cruising less well when, lets say, just for the sake of historical accuracy, I'm anchor down in Kanton Atoll on a day when it's so calm I can't tell where the air ends and the water starts and so hot that even the flies have taken cover in the shade I call my father on my Iridium phone? Are you telling me that this offends you in some way? Do we need to be reduced to sail cloth pants and latitude sailing to be cruising "well"? -- Tom. And sooner or later your phone will make you lazy and inept just like the poor fella further up this thread who couldn't even figure out how to get up the mast without making telephone calls and asking people how to do it safely. That's pretty disgusting in my humble opinion. People like him, when they get their friends advice about going up the mast, and then they manage to fall off will likely crawl to their cell phone, dial up their lawyer and enquire as to how to sue their friends for giving bad advice. Ocne again you're making assumptions about things that you know nothing about. In this case I was calling someone who used to work for Freedom to ask what the load rating was for the flag halyard rollers. As it turns out, the rollers designed to support a person. I wasn't about to go up the mast while underway without checking. It sounds like you would have goen up as you wouldn't have had any other option. I did and I took it. I have learned that making assumptions about things I know little or nothing about is always a good way to get the straight skinny because it motivates people to want to straighten me out. Flag halyard rollers(?) do you mean sheeves? It seems to me pretty dumb to over engineer flag halyard sheeves to carry the weight of a man. Going up a mast using the old fashioned methods is totally unnecessary these days when mast steps are easily installed. Again, you're sailing by committee. You have somebody winch you up the mast, relying on flag halyard sheeves and winches and their steady hand and shouting back and forth when you should be going up the mast under your own power on steps. Doh! Such a radical concept that. You act like I know nothing about sailing. I typically spend 6-7 months a year sailing and I've logged over 30,000 miles. I believe that know a lot about my boat and sailing. Check my web site if you have any doubt. I sort of can't seem to have much respect for people who go to sea with an unstayed rig. It's an invitation to disaster or should I say, dismasting? You're just an arrogant SOB who thinks that everyone should do things your way. Based upon your discourse in this and other threads, I'm very glad that most of the world isn't like you. I suggest that you go back to alt.sailing.asa where you're quite prolific and the people in that group enjoy bashing one another. I could do that but I think my logical sense of - doing it right, doing it safe and knowing your boat like the back of your hand BEFORE you decide to cruise or voyage needs to be emphasized. Bad habits beget more bad habits. People read about phoning an engineer for something simple like going up the mast and they think, OK, that's how I'll do it. Sorry, but that's not the way it should be done. Consider what I do is set the record straight. People can take it or leave it. In my opinion, my relatives just have to accept the fact that I'll be out of touch. I will not enable them to be worrywarts every time they don't get a daily or weekly telephone call. Did you ever consider that they don't want to hear from you if you act this way towards them? Possibly. They were raised by the same parents as I was. They share many of the same attitudes. They are rugged individualists, too. Nothing wrong with that. It's only Hillary and girly-men who really think it takes a village . . . Wilbur Hubbard |
#44
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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![]() "Paul Cassel" wrote in message . .. Wilbur Hubbard wrote: I understand because you're more like most of the people these days. But that doesn't make it right or even productive. Your daughter points out the difference in our outlooks. While your daughter was anxious about your well-being mine just said, "Have fun, Daddy, and be careful. I'll see you when you get back." You raised your daughter to be just like her Dad - a dependent person who worries. I raised mine to be just like me - an independent person who doesn't worry. She's somebody who is secure and happy and does not derive her happiness from an old man and I wouldn't have her any other way . . . Look at it this way. When you die your poor daughter will be grief-stricken and lost while mine will say in her mind, "Fair winds, Daddy, wherever you may be sailing now. It was good knowing you and I will always love you for raising me to appreciate the way the world works and to enjoy the positive and to reject the negative." Now you know nothing about my dependency or independence. You also make a great noise about being one salty seaman who is out there sailing the seas (in what? where? with what crew?) while I know what I've done. For sure, I can't prove to you that I have spent long time at sea both with my (now late) wife and singlehanding. I also expect to be out there again with my new wife. I can't prove it to you nor can you prove to me that you can tell which end of an oar goes in the water. However, the blase claim you make about your daughter's attitude toward you and even your death is chilling. For you to die and she to shrug her shoulders and say, "Fair winds" and that's that isn't natural of humans. Are you autistic? Is your daughter? I"m not teasing you. Instead I sense in you not only a complete lack of affect, but an anger to those who show affect. -paul I think you're horrified because you think my daughter is young - like maybe a teenager or younger. It would be weird for a young person like that to take death so casually. Young people take death of a parent VERY personally and they do so because they still sorta think they are the center of the universe. And, that's normal at their age. Nope, I'm an old fart. My daughter is all grown up and haired over. She's got kids of her own. She knows people get old and die. She knows I'm doing what I want to be doing. She knows I have no regrets and she knows she has no regrets. She lives in the real world and I think that's wonderful. Any anger you sense on my behalf is a result of the wimpification of men that's happened in the last sixty or seventy years. I've seen men go from being men to entire generations of men turning into girly men, objects of derision, objects of ridicule, the butt of jokes, portraits of ineptitude, weak, indecisive, telephone to the ear like a security blanket types. More like women than men. What's next? Hormone injections to their breasts so they can share nursing the kids? The "men" whose posts I read here are so far from the men of my youth that's it's appalling. I'm ashamed of them. Fat, soft, weak, fawning, sensitive, unassuming, indecisive, ignorant, in need of constant companionship, dependent, concerned - more female than male. No, the anger you see me express is anger combined with sorrow and disgust for the wimpification of men. Not to mention the disgust I feel for wimpified men who don't seem to realize they shouldn't be living that way. Wilbur Hubbard |
#45
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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![]() wrote in message ... On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 12:38:28 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: wrote in message . .. On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:48:32 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Rusty" blank wrote in message news:zsWdnVzPT_6yTC3bnZ2dnUVZ_rqlnZ2d@comcast. com... I think it's time to get an Iridium satellite phone. We're gong to have way too much time away from cell sites. Any suggestions as to a cruiser-friendly source of hardware and airtime? Thanks, Rusty It's my observation that people who have to have a phone so they can blabbermouth 24/7 while out cruising should just stay home. If you need to be plugged in to the communications grid 24/7 you're not cut out for cruising - just stay home and leave the waterways open for real cruisers, please. Today's men are turning into girly men. Bunch of sissies. Spend the money on a EPIRB instead. Cruise and try shutting your mouth for a week or a month. You might learn something for the first time in your life. Wilbur Hubbard Wilbur, While I realize that weather is of little interest to you on your trailer-sailer anchored in your snug little Bayou but to people out there on the water it is one of their primary concerns and there are three basic ways to get weather reports once you're out of sight of land (1) H.F. radio, (2) Iridium phone or (3) satellite (immersat, for example). I've done cost comparisons and going from nothing to a complete installation is cheaper using Iridium so more and more cruisers are opting for Iridium as weather reports through Iridium can be received 24 hours a day while H.F. is greatly dependent upon daily propagation variations. As you say, " try shutting your mouth for a week or a month. You might learn something for the first time in your life." Correction, there is a fourth and more reliable way of getting weather reports. That's knowing how to look at the glass and the sky and being able to interpret what they tell you for your part of the world. How do you think sailors got around before your exclusive reliance on technology? Your little do-it-like-a-lubber screed simply reinforces my opinion that you're no sailor. But, then again, anybody who has good opportunity to do coastal cruising in your part of the world, (considered premiere cruising grounds) but instead sits in a marina on the Internet probably won't ever understand that. Wilbur Hubbard Wilbur, that is one of the stupidest posts I've ever had the misfortune to read. You are right, years ago people didn't have any technology and relied on all kind of signs and portents to determine what to do. Originally no one could figure out how where they were once they were out of sight of land. Then came the compass so we could tell what direction we were going. Then somebody made a clock that would keep accurate time and people learned how to take sun shots and we got even better at knowing where we were, now we have GPS and we know down to a yard, or so exactly where we are. Sure, there a lot of old sailor's rhymes and jingles -- Red sky at night, sailor's delight....., most of them wildly inaccurate, but now we have a little more science in weather forecasting. Satellites, weather buoys, there is even a US Navy buoy system in most oceans where you can get real time wave height, and you want to go back to looking at clouds to predict the weather? Why? Because you think it is "lubberly" to use technology? Throughout history those who adopted the latest technology win and those who stuck with the old traditional ways end up in the garbage can. Hubert, do a little reading about the Tea Clippers. They sailed the way you are recommending -- lousy charts, poor navigation systems, no communications, no weather information except clouds. Real Sailor! No Lubbers here! And the average life of a tea clipper was something like two years. Their records read "lost on Scudder's Bank", "demasted in Bay of Bengal", "believed sunk in typhoon in S. China Seas"....... If you want to go back to the days of Salt Junk and Biscuits for breakfast, pulling ropes by hand and drowning because you ran into a typhoon that you didn't know was coming then you are welcome to it. But for me, I'm going to have every technical advantage I can get. "Stupid is as stupid does." --Forrest Gump. Let me just say this. My boats have been struck by lightning twice. If yours hasn't it will be one of these days. When it does get struck, say goodbye to ALL of your electronics. If you don't know how to sail without electronics you shouldn't be voyaging or cruising. To lightly toss aside traditional weather forecasting skills that rely on a barometer and human eye and other senses is to do a stupid thing. Wilbur Hubbard |
#46
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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![]() "KLC Lewis" wrote in message et... wrote in message ... On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:09:10 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: How about a Master Mariner license instead? http://captneal.homestead.com/files/mastermariner.jpg I'd say that says it all . . . My mentor, the World Famous Captain Neal. Wilbur Hubbard If you had taken the photo from a little further away it might work, but it can be read -- it is a 25 tonner for domestic inshore waters. I believe that the OP was talking about a real ship officers license with indorsement probable foreign going all tonnage. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) Hey Willy -- you should tell yourse....er, "Capt Neal," that the license has expired. No matter, we all have to start somewhere. Self-documenting sea time for the 25 ton MM and OUPV license is as good a start as any. He probably used an old license to post. He probably doesn't want his current one with the number and all out there on the Internet for people to try to counterfeit and use as their own. Wilbur Hubbard |
#47
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
anews.com: "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message .. . "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in anews.com: wrote in message oups.com... ... So you can cruise and you can telephone. But it's not the same as doing one or the other and doing it well. ... I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that I'm cruising less well when, lets say, just for the sake of historical accuracy, I'm anchor down in Kanton Atoll on a day when it's so calm I can't tell where the air ends and the water starts and so hot that even the flies have taken cover in the shade I call my father on my Iridium phone? Are you telling me that this offends you in some way? Do we need to be reduced to sail cloth pants and latitude sailing to be cruising "well"? -- Tom. And sooner or later your phone will make you lazy and inept just like the poor fella further up this thread who couldn't even figure out how to get up the mast without making telephone calls and asking people how to do it safely. That's pretty disgusting in my humble opinion. People like him, when they get their friends advice about going up the mast, and then they manage to fall off will likely crawl to their cell phone, dial up their lawyer and enquire as to how to sue their friends for giving bad advice. Ocne again you're making assumptions about things that you know nothing about. In this case I was calling someone who used to work for Freedom to ask what the load rating was for the flag halyard rollers. As it turns out, the rollers designed to support a person. I wasn't about to go up the mast while underway without checking. It sounds like you would have goen up as you wouldn't have had any other option. I did and I took it. I have learned that making assumptions about things I know little or nothing about is always a good way to get the straight skinny because it motivates people to want to straighten me out. Flag halyard rollers(?) do you mean sheeves? It seems to me pretty dumb to over engineer flag halyard sheeves to carry the weight of a man. Going up a mast using the old fashioned methods is totally unnecessary these days when mast steps are easily installed. Again, you're sailing by committee. You have somebody winch you up the mast, relying on flag halyard sheeves and winches and their steady hand and shouting back and forth when you should be going up the mast under your own power on steps. Doh! Such a radical concept that. You act like I know nothing about sailing. I typically spend 6-7 months a year sailing and I've logged over 30,000 miles. I believe that know a lot about my boat and sailing. Check my web site if you have any doubt. I sort of can't seem to have much respect for people who go to sea with an unstayed rig. It's an invitation to disaster or should I say, dismasting? I love people who continue to dig holes for themselves and show their ignorance. Unstayed carbon fiber masts don't like holes in them. Placing mast steps is one of the last things that you'd ever do. Virtually every sailmaker that I've spoken with will tell you to not use mast steps due to what it does to the air flow past the mast. If you don't care about performance, go ahead and put them on your mast. Carbon fiber masts have an extremely good track record as far as breaking is concerned. The only failures that Freedom has had is when someone hit a bridge and from people using a spinnaker going to the top of the mast instead of 7/8 as recommended. Conventional boat rigging has a much better chance of failing than a carbon fiber unstayed mast. As far as Freedom's decision to over-engineer the flag halyard system to allow it to haul someone to the top: I applaud it. Clearly the engineers saw that the potential of needing such as system as made sure that the components used at the mast head could support a person. I've been up the mast many times and it didn't take a lot of additional material/weight to do it. Wilbur, I'm sick and tired of listening to someone who thinks that they know how to do everything and their way is the only way. So crawl back into the hole that you came from and if you ever learn civility, come back. Until then, shut up. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
#48
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posted to rec.boats.cruising
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On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 14:03:24 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 12:38:28 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: wrote in message ... On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:48:32 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Rusty" blank wrote in message news:zsWdnVzPT_6yTC3bnZ2dnUVZ_rqlnZ2d@comcast .com... I think it's time to get an Iridium satellite phone. We're gong to have way too much time away from cell sites. Any suggestions as to a cruiser-friendly source of hardware and airtime? Thanks, Rusty It's my observation that people who have to have a phone so they can blabbermouth 24/7 while out cruising should just stay home. If you need to be plugged in to the communications grid 24/7 you're not cut out for cruising - just stay home and leave the waterways open for real cruisers, please. Today's men are turning into girly men. Bunch of sissies. Spend the money on a EPIRB instead. Cruise and try shutting your mouth for a week or a month. You might learn something for the first time in your life. Wilbur Hubbard Wilbur, While I realize that weather is of little interest to you on your trailer-sailer anchored in your snug little Bayou but to people out there on the water it is one of their primary concerns and there are three basic ways to get weather reports once you're out of sight of land (1) H.F. radio, (2) Iridium phone or (3) satellite (immersat, for example). I've done cost comparisons and going from nothing to a complete installation is cheaper using Iridium so more and more cruisers are opting for Iridium as weather reports through Iridium can be received 24 hours a day while H.F. is greatly dependent upon daily propagation variations. As you say, " try shutting your mouth for a week or a month. You might learn something for the first time in your life." Correction, there is a fourth and more reliable way of getting weather reports. That's knowing how to look at the glass and the sky and being able to interpret what they tell you for your part of the world. How do you think sailors got around before your exclusive reliance on technology? Your little do-it-like-a-lubber screed simply reinforces my opinion that you're no sailor. But, then again, anybody who has good opportunity to do coastal cruising in your part of the world, (considered premiere cruising grounds) but instead sits in a marina on the Internet probably won't ever understand that. Wilbur Hubbard Wilbur, that is one of the stupidest posts I've ever had the misfortune to read. You are right, years ago people didn't have any technology and relied on all kind of signs and portents to determine what to do. Originally no one could figure out how where they were once they were out of sight of land. Then came the compass so we could tell what direction we were going. Then somebody made a clock that would keep accurate time and people learned how to take sun shots and we got even better at knowing where we were, now we have GPS and we know down to a yard, or so exactly where we are. Sure, there a lot of old sailor's rhymes and jingles -- Red sky at night, sailor's delight....., most of them wildly inaccurate, but now we have a little more science in weather forecasting. Satellites, weather buoys, there is even a US Navy buoy system in most oceans where you can get real time wave height, and you want to go back to looking at clouds to predict the weather? Why? Because you think it is "lubberly" to use technology? Throughout history those who adopted the latest technology win and those who stuck with the old traditional ways end up in the garbage can. Hubert, do a little reading about the Tea Clippers. They sailed the way you are recommending -- lousy charts, poor navigation systems, no communications, no weather information except clouds. Real Sailor! No Lubbers here! And the average life of a tea clipper was something like two years. Their records read "lost on Scudder's Bank", "demasted in Bay of Bengal", "believed sunk in typhoon in S. China Seas"....... If you want to go back to the days of Salt Junk and Biscuits for breakfast, pulling ropes by hand and drowning because you ran into a typhoon that you didn't know was coming then you are welcome to it. But for me, I'm going to have every technical advantage I can get. "Stupid is as stupid does." --Forrest Gump. Good God! Forrest Gump is a movie character. Have you lost so much touch with reality that you confuse the figures on the "silver screen" with real people? Hummmm perhaps you have. Let me just say this. My boats have been struck by lightning twice. If yours hasn't it will be one of these days. When it does get struck, say goodbye to ALL of your electronics. If you don't know how to sail without electronics you shouldn't be voyaging or cruising. To lightly toss aside traditional weather forecasting skills that rely on a barometer and human eye and other senses is to do a stupid thing. Wilbur Hubbard Will Boy, you got me beat - I've only been "hit" by lightning once. And yes I can rely on a barometer and looking at the clouds. It's not accurate but better then scrambling around in the guts of a slaughtered goat, or some other sooth-saying mumbo-jumbo, I suppose. And, by the way, you don't have to say goodby to all your electronic instruments. My hand held GPS in a tin box survived. But, that is once in all the years I've been sailing. To ignore modern technology because something that happened once in 20 - 30 - 40 years is, quite simply, ridicules. By the way, during the N.E. Monsoons the barometer normally moves down about 5 millibar from daylight to evening - does that mean a storm is coming this evening? Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
#49
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Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
I think you're horrified because you think my daughter is young - like maybe a teenager or younger. It would be weird for a young person like that to take death so casually. Young people take death of a parent VERY personally and they do so because they still sorta think they are the center of the universe. And, that's normal at their age. Nope, I'm an old fart. My daughter is all grown up and haired over. She's got kids of her own. She knows people get old and die. She knows I'm doing what I want to be doing. She knows I have no regrets and she knows she has no regrets. She lives in the real world and I think that's wonderful. My daughter is young. She was 11 when I set out to sea alone single handing. I think her anxiety was reasonable then as it is now although she's a bit older. While I didn't have a sat phone then and I may or may not have one if I go again, I don't think having one to call her from time to time to reassure her that all's ok is unreasonable or a signal that I'm a girlie man. If your daughter is older and all right with her / your / all death, fine. That's her. I don't know what it means for a daughter to be 'haired over'. Any anger you sense on my behalf is a result of the wimpification of men that's happened in the last sixty or seventy years. I've seen men go from being men to entire generations of men turning into girly men, objects of derision, objects of ridicule, the butt of jokes, portraits of ineptitude, weak, indecisive, telephone to the ear like a security blanket types. More like women than men. What's next? Hormone injections to their breasts so they can share nursing the kids? The "men" whose posts I read here are so far from the men of my youth that's it's appalling. I'm ashamed of them. Fat, soft, weak, fawning, sensitive, unassuming, indecisive, ignorant, in need of constant companionship, dependent, concerned - more female than male. No, the anger you see me express is anger combined with sorrow and disgust for the wimpification of men. Not to mention the disgust I feel for wimpified men who don't seem to realize they shouldn't be living that way. So we think and I've thought the same myself. The question is if we're really softer or if we aren't called to be harder. When I and my late wife lived in WY, we wondered at the Original Settlers who lived in soddies and were wintered in for months. These families were self sufficient or dead. I lived for months in the NWT of Canada in a tent - again pretty much sufficient but with my camp mates - about 5 of us total. We managed to do our work, cook our food, fish or hunt or whatever it took. When I returned to Calgary, I returned to my normal life or the soft life perhaps. Aside from duration, there wasn't much difference between me and Slocum single handing aside from me having a much larger craft. No, that doesn't make me the equal of Slocum, only that I too can live w/o refrigeration and stand long watches in storms too. So are we really the same as the ancestors or would the ancestors use refrigeration and sat phones if only they had them? That is, have we changed or, as I think do we just have more options? Slocum did spherical trig on paper with a pencil. Would he have been less admirable had he a 10 key? -paul |
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