Peggie Hall wrote:

There are no coastal (or inland) waters in the whole US--east coast,
west coast, or Gulf--in which it's legal to discharge raw untreated
toilet waste directly overboard or dump a tank.

Wanna bet?

Rick

Rick wrote:
Peggie Hall wrote:

There are no coastal (or inland) waters in the whole US--east coast,
west coast, or Gulf--in which it's legal to discharge raw untreated
toilet waste directly overboard or dump a tank.


Wanna bet?

Yes....any amount you want to name--and would actually pay off.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Peggie Hall wrote:

Yes....any amount you want to name--and would actually pay off.

Too tempting. Ever hear of the Southeast Alaska "donut holes?"

Rick

Rick wrote:
Peggie Hall wrote:

Yes....any amount you want to name--and would actually pay off.


Too tempting. Ever hear of the Southeast Alaska "donut holes?"

Yep. A lack of any enforcement of marine sanitation laws there--even a
total absence of any pumpout facilities--does not change the fact that
federal law prohibits the discharge of raw untreated toilet waste from
vessels in ALL U.S. waters within 3 miles of the coastline. But a lack
of any enforcement doesn't make it legal.

The applicable federal law is 40 CFR 140.1-5, btw. You can read it at
http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/4...0/wcd0006d.asp

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Peggie Hall wrote:

Yep. A lack of any enforcement of marine sanitation laws there--even a
total absence of any pumpout facilities--does not change the fact that
federal law prohibits the discharge of raw untreated toilet waste from
vessels in ALL U.S. waters within 3 miles of the coastline. But a lack
of any enforcement doesn't make it legal.


Wrong again. It is not a matter of enforcement at all. The "donut holes"
are areas that are more than 3 miles from the nearest land. They are
shoreward of the boundary line, within the waters of the State of Alaska
and well within what anyone would call the "inside passage."

It is perfectly legal to pump sewage in these areas. Law was recently
made to prohibit large passenger vessels (read cruise ships) from
dumping untreated sewage in these areas but for other than commercial
passenger vessels above a certain size it is perfectly legal.

As a matter of fact you may sail from just north of Seattle all the way
to Glacier Bay on the inside passage and never break the law so long as
you observe the location of the donut holes while in SE Alaska.

Rick

Rick wrote:
Peggie Hall wrote:

Yep. A lack of any enforcement of marine sanitation laws there--even a
total absence of any pumpout facilities--does not change the fact that
federal law prohibits the discharge of raw untreated toilet waste from
vessels in ALL U.S. waters within 3 miles of the coastline. But a
lack of any enforcement doesn't make it legal.

Wrong again. It is not a matter of enforcement at all. The "donut holes"
are areas that are more than 3 miles from the nearest land. They are
shoreward of the boundary line, within the waters of the State of Alaska
and well within what anyone would call the "inside passage."

You're referring to the Alexander Archipelego...right? "More than 3
miles from the nearest land" is the key. Any time you're in ocean
waters, Federal law prohibits the discharge of raw untreated waste
WITHIN 3 miles of the nearest land. State boundary line has nothing to
with it...if it did, it would be illegal to discharge untreated waste in
the entire 26 miles between the CA mainland and Catalina Island...but
it's only illegal within 3 miles of both the mainland and the
island...legal in the 19 miles between. Same holds true for the waters
of the "donut holes."

It is perfectly legal to pump sewage in these areas. Law was recently
made to prohibit large passenger vessels (read cruise ships) from
dumping untreated sewage in these areas but for other than commercial
passenger vessels above a certain size it is perfectly legal.

The new law didn't grant any exemptions to smaller vessels, only put an
additional burden on the large ones.

As a matter of fact you may sail from just north of Seattle all the way
to Glacier Bay on the inside passage and never break the law...

You would be in Puget sound, and if you sailed closer than 3 miles to
any land between Port Townsend and the Canadian border...from there to
the AK state line you're in Canadian coastal waters, subject to their
laws, not ours.

... so long as
you observe the location of the donut holes while in SE Alaska...

....And don't discharge within 3 miles of any land--mainland OR island.

It's VERY confusing, I know....'cuz what's the difference between waters
in which there are a bunch of islands more than 3 miles apart and a bay
or sound that's more than 3 miles shore-to-shore? There shouldn't BE any
difference IMO...but there is. Just be glad YOU don't have to try to
explain it.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Gotta give you cedit for tenacity if not accuracy.

You wrote:

"There are no coastal (or inland) waters in the whole US--east coast,
west coast, or Gulf--in which it's legal to discharge raw untreated
toilet waste directly overboard or dump a tank."


You're referring to the Alexander Archipelego...right? "More than 3
miles from the nearest land" is the key. Any time you're in ocean
waters, Federal law prohibits the discharge of raw untreated waste
WITHIN 3 miles of the nearest land. State boundary line has nothing to
with it...

Do you know what a "boundary line" is?

The waters in the donut holes are landward of the barrier islands
forming the west side of that part of the inside passage. They are not
in "ocean waters," except for the purposes of COLREGS. They are in the
sheltered coastal waters of Southeast Alaska.

The new law didn't grant any exemptions to smaller vessels, only put an
additional burden on the large ones.

The new law exempted small vessels carrying less than 50 overnight
passengers. It did not give them any more rights than they had to begin
with. The new law only removed the "right" of larger vessels to legally
dump raw sewage in certain areas of the inland and coastal waters of Alaska.

You would be in Puget sound, and if you sailed closer than 3 miles to
any land between Port Townsend and the Canadian border...from there to
the AK state line you're in Canadian coastal waters, subject to their
laws, not ours.

No dumping is allowed in Puget Sound or the Strait of Juan de Fuca. The
point I was trying to make is that a small boat can indeed travel from
just north of Seattle all the way to Glacier Bay via the inside passage
and legally dump raw sewage. That is directly and correctly in
opposition to your statement that "There are no coastal (or inland)
waters in the whole US--east coast, west coast, or Gulf--in which it's
legal to discharge raw untreated toilet waste directly overboard or dump
a tank."

If starting at the southern Canadian border bugs you then start at the
other Canadian border just north of Prince Rupert and go north from
there in US coastal waters and dump raw sewage in the donut holes.

It's VERY confusing, I know....

No, it's not confusing. It is part of the information a competent and
informed person requires to safely and legally operate a vessel in US
waters.

What confuses people is when false or misleading statements are posted
on the internet by people who do not know what they are talking about.
Call it nitpicking if you like but, just like your inspected vessel
statement, the devil is in the details when it comes to the regulatory
side of boating.

Rick

Gotta give you cedit for tenacity if not accuracy.

You wrote:

"There are no coastal (or inland) waters in the whole US--east coast,
west coast, or Gulf--in which it's legal to discharge raw untreated
toilet waste directly overboard or dump a tank."


You're referring to the Alexander Archipelego...right? "More than 3
miles from the nearest land" is the key. Any time you're in ocean
waters, Federal law prohibits the discharge of raw untreated waste
WITHIN 3 miles of the nearest land. State boundary line has nothing to
with it...

Do you know what a "boundary line" is?

The waters in the donut holes are landward of the barrier islands
forming the west side of that part of the inside passage. They are not
in "ocean waters," except for the purposes of COLREGS. They are in the
sheltered coastal waters of Southeast Alaska.

The new law didn't grant any exemptions to smaller vessels, only put an
additional burden on the large ones.

The new law exempted small vessels carrying less than 50 overnight
passengers. It did not give them any more rights than they had to begin
with. The new law only removed the "right" of larger vessels to legally
dump raw sewage in certain areas of the inland and coastal waters of Alaska.

You would be in Puget sound, and if you sailed closer than 3 miles to
any land between Port Townsend and the Canadian border...from there to
the AK state line you're in Canadian coastal waters, subject to their
laws, not ours.

No dumping is allowed in Puget Sound or the Strait of Juan de Fuca. The
point I was trying to make is that a small boat can indeed travel from
just north of Seattle all the way to Glacier Bay via the inside passage
and legally dump raw sewage. That is directly and correctly in
opposition to your statement that "There are no coastal (or inland)
waters in the whole US--east coast, west coast, or Gulf--in which it's
legal to discharge raw untreated toilet waste directly overboard or dump
a tank."

If starting at the southern Canadian border bugs you then start at the
other Canadian border just north of Prince Rupert and go north from
there in US coastal waters and dump raw sewage in the donut holes.

It's VERY confusing, I know....

No, it's not confusing. It is part of the information a competent and
informed person requires to safely and legally operate a vessel in US
waters.

What confuses people is when false or misleading statements are posted
on the internet by people who do not know what they are talking about.
Call it nitpicking if you like but, just like your inspected vessel
statement, the devil is in the details when it comes to the regulatory
side of boating.

Rick

Rick wrote:
Peggie Hall wrote:

Yep. A lack of any enforcement of marine sanitation laws there--even a
total absence of any pumpout facilities--does not change the fact that
federal law prohibits the discharge of raw untreated toilet waste from
vessels in ALL U.S. waters within 3 miles of the coastline. But a
lack of any enforcement doesn't make it legal.

Wrong again. It is not a matter of enforcement at all. The "donut holes"
are areas that are more than 3 miles from the nearest land. They are
shoreward of the boundary line, within the waters of the State of Alaska
and well within what anyone would call the "inside passage."

You're referring to the Alexander Archipelego...right? "More than 3
miles from the nearest land" is the key. Any time you're in ocean
waters, Federal law prohibits the discharge of raw untreated waste
WITHIN 3 miles of the nearest land. State boundary line has nothing to
with it...if it did, it would be illegal to discharge untreated waste in
the entire 26 miles between the CA mainland and Catalina Island...but
it's only illegal within 3 miles of both the mainland and the
island...legal in the 19 miles between. Same holds true for the waters
of the "donut holes."

It is perfectly legal to pump sewage in these areas. Law was recently
made to prohibit large passenger vessels (read cruise ships) from
dumping untreated sewage in these areas but for other than commercial
passenger vessels above a certain size it is perfectly legal.

The new law didn't grant any exemptions to smaller vessels, only put an
additional burden on the large ones.

As a matter of fact you may sail from just north of Seattle all the way
to Glacier Bay on the inside passage and never break the law...

You would be in Puget sound, and if you sailed closer than 3 miles to
any land between Port Townsend and the Canadian border...from there to
the AK state line you're in Canadian coastal waters, subject to their
laws, not ours.

... so long as
you observe the location of the donut holes while in SE Alaska...

....And don't discharge within 3 miles of any land--mainland OR island.

It's VERY confusing, I know....'cuz what's the difference between waters
in which there are a bunch of islands more than 3 miles apart and a bay
or sound that's more than 3 miles shore-to-shore? There shouldn't BE any
difference IMO...but there is. Just be glad YOU don't have to try to
explain it.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Peggie Hall wrote:

Yep. A lack of any enforcement of marine sanitation laws there--even a
total absence of any pumpout facilities--does not change the fact that
federal law prohibits the discharge of raw untreated toilet waste from
vessels in ALL U.S. waters within 3 miles of the coastline. But a lack
of any enforcement doesn't make it legal.


Wrong again. It is not a matter of enforcement at all. The "donut holes"
are areas that are more than 3 miles from the nearest land. They are
shoreward of the boundary line, within the waters of the State of Alaska
and well within what anyone would call the "inside passage."

It is perfectly legal to pump sewage in these areas. Law was recently
made to prohibit large passenger vessels (read cruise ships) from
dumping untreated sewage in these areas but for other than commercial
passenger vessels above a certain size it is perfectly legal.

As a matter of fact you may sail from just north of Seattle all the way
to Glacier Bay on the inside passage and never break the law so long as
you observe the location of the donut holes while in SE Alaska.

Rick