I might add, having just done a huge amount of what it sounds like you're
about to do, that you can take any YachtWorld or other broker's information
with enough rock salt to recharge a water softener.

Aside from the raw specifications, what you see will rarely match the
description - and frequently the raw specifications won't be accurate,
either. If you don't already know what boat (make, model) and other
specifications you want, visiting the boats you *think* will work will be a
real education.

It's not really the brokers' fault. Pictures can't show the detail that
your eye will see, nor can the broker, without taking an inordinate amount
of time, convey the level of information which would really tell you the
story of a boat. You have to go rummage around it yourself. However, if
it's not a new boat, you can largely assume that the picture will look
better than reality. Unless the boat's actually truly been very recently
totally rehabbed, with new upholstery, cushions, whatever sort of window
treatments may be there, hatches, ports, non-skid, varnish, countertops,
running and standing rigging and sails, bottom treatment, rebuilt or new
engine and electronics, ad nauseum, it won't look like you think from seeing
the pictures and reading the descriptions. Even if it's a wreck when you
get in front of the real thing, or anything short of perfect, you'll like
what you see in the pictures much more than the reality, because the
pictures can't show the nitty gritty...

Or, you can ask the broker a lot of very pointed questions to try to get to
the reality. If you're not going to be looking at many boats, it may be
worth your while to do that. However, if there's several to many in a given
market, making an appointment with a broker to handle all of the listings
which you want to see, for you, and just going and seeing them, will be
quicker and much more educational. You'll also find the broker more willing
to talk about what they know in that environment, than taking time to answer
a lot of questions on the phone. Then, too, unless it's their listing, and
even then, perhaps not, often they'll know very little about the boat, so
you might not get meaningful information in any event.

Look for other posts of mine in the archives to get a feel for why I go on
like that. It's a long process, unless you've got boatloads (pardon the
expression) of money, and getting aboard is more important than things being
how you'd like them, in which case, nearly anything in whatever price range
you may have will do.

I'm very glad to say that I'm on the home stretch in our search. It's been
quite an adventure, as any long-timers here can attest :{)) [handlebars and
full beard, tm]

L8R

Skip


--
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain
"Helimech" wrote in message
news:tKoCb.375063$275.1216396@attbi_s53...
Thanks to all for some great info. As they say, "Let the games begin" JC
"Helimech" wrote in message
news:zO8zb.401035$Tr4.1153600@attbi_s03...
What's the proper way to view boats that I see on internet sites. Do I
call
and make an appointment with the broker or is it customary to just go
there
and walk in to the office and announce that you want to look at several
boats. I'm very early in the process and just want to get a feel of the
size boat I'd be comfortable living in. I know its somewhere between 40
and
50 foot. Also what kind of response do you normally get when the broker
learns you aren't buying anytime soon? Sorry for the newbee questions.
JC

Skip Gundlach wrote:
I might add, having just done a huge amount of what it sounds like you're
about to do, that you can take any YachtWorld or other broker's information
with enough rock salt to recharge a water softener.

Aside from the raw specifications, what you see will rarely match the
description - and frequently the raw specifications won't be accurate,
either. If you don't already know what boat (make, model) and other
specifications you want, visiting the boats you *think* will work will be a
real education.


I think that anyone who is looking for a used boat ought to
memorize those two paragraphs! There are few things more
frustrating than driving for hours to see a boat that has been
completely misrepresented on yachtworld and on the phone. We
learned to use use the following process...

1. Find a boat that looks like it might fit your needs.
2. Find an owner's group for that boat - preferably on the net.
3. Read *all* the archives for the owner's group and find the
common problems.
4. Locate and read any "used boat reviews" in the magazines.
5. Finally, if you're still interested, go and look at the boat.

Most owners love their boats and hate to say bad things about
them. However, they'll talk about problems with other owners.
This is the info you want to seek out.

I believe this process saved us a lot of time by eliminating
interesting boats with serious design or construction issues. It
allowed us to ask useful questions over the phone. It also gave
us enough info to know what we should be looking at when we went
down to the dock. We don't pretend to be surveyors, but we did
find a lot of otherwise hidden "deal breakers" within a few
minutes of stepping on the boat just because we knew where to look.

Cindy


--
the return email is a spam trap
send legit emails to cindy_at_ballreich_dot_net

Skip Gundlach wrote:
I might add, having just done a huge amount of what it sounds like you're
about to do, that you can take any YachtWorld or other broker's information
with enough rock salt to recharge a water softener.

Aside from the raw specifications, what you see will rarely match the
description - and frequently the raw specifications won't be accurate,
either. If you don't already know what boat (make, model) and other
specifications you want, visiting the boats you *think* will work will be a
real education.


I think that anyone who is looking for a used boat ought to
memorize those two paragraphs! There are few things more
frustrating than driving for hours to see a boat that has been
completely misrepresented on yachtworld and on the phone. We
learned to use use the following process...

1. Find a boat that looks like it might fit your needs.
2. Find an owner's group for that boat - preferably on the net.
3. Read *all* the archives for the owner's group and find the
common problems.
4. Locate and read any "used boat reviews" in the magazines.
5. Finally, if you're still interested, go and look at the boat.

Most owners love their boats and hate to say bad things about
them. However, they'll talk about problems with other owners.
This is the info you want to seek out.

I believe this process saved us a lot of time by eliminating
interesting boats with serious design or construction issues. It
allowed us to ask useful questions over the phone. It also gave
us enough info to know what we should be looking at when we went
down to the dock. We don't pretend to be surveyors, but we did
find a lot of otherwise hidden "deal breakers" within a few
minutes of stepping on the boat just because we knew where to look.

Cindy


--
the return email is a spam trap
send legit emails to cindy_at_ballreich_dot_net

x-no-archive:yes


WaIIy wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 05:43:07 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
u wrote:

Even if it's a wreck when you
get in front of the real thing, or anything short of perfect, you'll like
what you see in the pictures much more than the reality, because the
pictures can't show the nitty gritty...

I agree with you when looking at pictures of boats for sale.

I find that taking a lot of my own pictures of a boat I'm interested
really helps.
There are things you don't notice or remember until you really study the
pictures you took.

A friend of mine has done this to the nth degree. She had a standard
set of pictures that she took of each boat, and in addition, she stuck
her camera into every opening that opened and took a picture of what
was in there. Then she got them developed at a one hour place, and
put them in an album with the spec sheet from the broker in the front
of that section - sometimes labeled with arrows pointing to problem
areas (such as a blister or a cracked port). She said she sometimes
saw evidence of water damage that she missed in person.

I used to do OSHA inspections, and I took lots of pictures also - I
often found violations in the photos that I had totally missed in
person. (One time when I was a trainee out with another inspector, my
picture showed a 2nd floor space without a door, and with no stairs.
They got up there by extension ladder extended as far as it would go.)

Video tape IMHO isn't really very good for this sort of thing.



grandma Rosalie

x-no-archive:yes


WaIIy wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 05:43:07 GMT, "Skip Gundlach"
u wrote:

Even if it's a wreck when you
get in front of the real thing, or anything short of perfect, you'll like
what you see in the pictures much more than the reality, because the
pictures can't show the nitty gritty...

I agree with you when looking at pictures of boats for sale.

I find that taking a lot of my own pictures of a boat I'm interested
really helps.
There are things you don't notice or remember until you really study the
pictures you took.

A friend of mine has done this to the nth degree. She had a standard
set of pictures that she took of each boat, and in addition, she stuck
her camera into every opening that opened and took a picture of what
was in there. Then she got them developed at a one hour place, and
put them in an album with the spec sheet from the broker in the front
of that section - sometimes labeled with arrows pointing to problem
areas (such as a blister or a cracked port). She said she sometimes
saw evidence of water damage that she missed in person.

I used to do OSHA inspections, and I took lots of pictures also - I
often found violations in the photos that I had totally missed in
person. (One time when I was a trainee out with another inspector, my
picture showed a 2nd floor space without a door, and with no stairs.
They got up there by extension ladder extended as far as it would go.)

Video tape IMHO isn't really very good for this sort of thing.



grandma Rosalie