Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: "Doug Dotson"

Huh? Bubbling up fuel? It helps it as much as drawing the fuel from
one baffled area into the engine. Better to draw it into a polishing
system for a while.

But unless the fuel is shaken up real well most of the crud is still at the
bottom of each baffled area in a nice little mound.

Capt. Bill

That may be true, and as long as it stays there the engine still
runs fine. If it does get shaken up, the a polishing system will
do its job while lessing the crud going through the engine filtering
system. Once initial polishing is done, I will be alternating between
tanks. One running while the other polishing. Getting things shaken
up is the best thing I can hope for.

Doug
s/v Callista

"LaBomba182" wrote in message
...
Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: "Doug Dotson"

Huh? Bubbling up fuel? It helps it as much as drawing the fuel from
one baffled area into the engine. Better to draw it into a polishing
system for a while.

But unless the fuel is shaken up real well most of the crud is still at
the
bottom of each baffled area in a nice little mound.

Capt. Bill

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:41:45 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:

That may be true, and as long as it stays there the engine still
runs fine. If it does get shaken up, the a polishing system will
do its job while lessing the crud going through the engine filtering
system. Once initial polishing is done, I will be alternating between
tanks. One running while the other polishing. Getting things shaken
up is the best thing I can hope for.

Why not just always leave the polishing system in-line? Allow for a
bypass to change a filter or if it develops a vacuum leak, but other
then that, there's nothing wrong with always using "just polished" fuel.

Steve

That would require me to have 2 pretty much independent polishing
systems. I don't really have the room for that and the extra
expense would be hard to justify.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:41:45 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:

That may be true, and as long as it stays there the engine still
runs fine. If it does get shaken up, the a polishing system will
do its job while lessing the crud going through the engine filtering
system. Once initial polishing is done, I will be alternating between
tanks. One running while the other polishing. Getting things shaken
up is the best thing I can hope for.

Why not just always leave the polishing system in-line? Allow for a
bypass to change a filter or if it develops a vacuum leak, but other
then that, there's nothing wrong with always using "just polished" fuel.

Steve

Pretty sure I posted a link early in this conversation that shows a diagram
of a polishing system based on a GCF F-1 filter that allows either polishing
or running with the F-1 as the first filter before going into the Racor
while running. If I didn't, or you can't find it, here it is again:
http://www.trawlerworld.com/features_06.htm

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
That would require me to have 2 pretty much independent polishing
systems. I don't really have the room for that and the extra
expense would be hard to justify.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:41:45 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:

That may be true, and as long as it stays there the engine still
runs fine. If it does get shaken up, the a polishing system will
do its job while lessing the crud going through the engine filtering
system. Once initial polishing is done, I will be alternating between
tanks. One running while the other polishing. Getting things shaken
up is the best thing I can hope for.

Why not just always leave the polishing system in-line? Allow for a
bypass to change a filter or if it develops a vacuum leak, but other
then that, there's nothing wrong with always using "just polished" fuel.

Steve

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:21:58 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:

That would require me to have 2 pretty much independent polishing
systems. I don't really have the room for that and the extra
expense would be hard to justify.

I guess I don't understand your system. Why would it require two
independent polishing systems? Even with a single set of filters (GCF
fillowed by Racor) you can use valves and piping to plumb the thing any
way you want.

Steve

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:41:45 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:

That may be true, and as long as it stays there the engine still
runs fine. If it does get shaken up, the a polishing system will
do its job while lessing the crud going through the engine filtering
system. Once initial polishing is done, I will be alternating between
tanks. One running while the other polishing. Getting things shaken
up is the best thing I can hope for.

Why not just always leave the polishing system in-line? Allow for a
bypass to change a filter or if it develops a vacuum leak, but other
then that, there's nothing wrong with always using "just polished" fuel.

Steve

Steve,

I understood that you were suggesting that I leave the polishing system
running while running the engine. Since I have 2 tanks it seems to me
to require two polishing systems to keep polishing while running. The
system I have designed allows me to polish either of the two tanks
at any time and run the engine out of either tank at any time as well. So
I can polish the same one I am running out of if I wish. I guess the
choice of which to polish while running is up for grabs.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:21:58 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:

That would require me to have 2 pretty much independent polishing
systems. I don't really have the room for that and the extra
expense would be hard to justify.

I guess I don't understand your system. Why would it require two
independent polishing systems? Even with a single set of filters (GCF
fillowed by Racor) you can use valves and piping to plumb the thing any
way you want.

Steve

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:41:45 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

That may be true, and as long as it stays there the engine still
runs fine. If it does get shaken up, the a polishing system will
do its job while lessing the crud going through the engine filtering
system. Once initial polishing is done, I will be alternating between
tanks. One running while the other polishing. Getting things shaken
up is the best thing I can hope for.

Why not just always leave the polishing system in-line? Allow for a
bypass to change a filter or if it develops a vacuum leak, but other
then that, there's nothing wrong with always using "just polished"
fuel.

Steve

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:10:23 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:

Steve,

I understood that you were suggesting that I leave the polishing system
running while running the engine. Since I have 2 tanks it seems to me
to require two polishing systems to keep polishing while running. The
system I have designed allows me to polish either of the two tanks
at any time and run the engine out of either tank at any time as well. So
I can polish the same one I am running out of if I wish. I guess the
choice of which to polish while running is up for grabs.

I think I'd route it so that I can route either tank to the polishing
system then 'T' the polishing system to the engine and the return to
either tank. Just make sure you're returning to the same tank you're
drawing from. A simplified version (without bypass plumbing which is a
pain to draw) looks something like this: (view with fixed point font
like courier)

-------------- /--------------------------T---------|
| Y select / return to tanks | |
---------- | --------------- |
| | |(to tank 2) | check valve | |
| Tank 1 | --------------- |
| |---------- ------------- | |
---------- | | Polishing | -------- | ----------
|from | filters | | | | \ | |
Y select /----| with |-| Pump |-T- \-| Engine |
---------- /tanks| bypassing | | | | |
| | | ------------- -------- ----------
| Tank 2 | |
| |----------
---------- out

If the above ascii drawing looks horrible, sorry. But basically, the
supply from both tanks goes to a Y valve which feeds either to the
polishing filters. That's where you'd put the bypass valves so you can
go around any filter (GCF or Racor). Then to a T where one side goes to
a shutoff valve then to the engine. The shutoff valve is so that you
can turn off fuel to the engine while you're priming the system after
changing filters so air won't get in the engine. You can also plumb it
so that the engine can draw from the tanka bypassing the filters so you
can prime them and run the engine at the same time if that's a
requirement. I didn't care about that since I don't run the engine all
that much (sailboat.) Also not shown is that you want to install vacuum
gauges, one before the GCF filter, one between the GCF and the Racor and
one after the Racor before the Walbro pump. Any difference more than a
few psi across a filter means it's time for an element change.

The other side of the T goes to a check valve. That's there so that if
the electric pump fails the engine won't suck air from the return lines.
Then there's a T where the engine return and the polishing system return
join and go to another Y valve to select where to return the fuel to.
Just make sure both Y valves are in the same position. You can also use
this as a fuel transfering pump if you want to, by putting the Y valves
in different positions. But be careful you don't overflow the tank
being filled.

Steve

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:10:23 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:

Steve,

I understood that you were suggesting that I leave the polishing system
running while running the engine. Since I have 2 tanks it seems to me
to require two polishing systems to keep polishing while running. The
system I have designed allows me to polish either of the two tanks
at any time and run the engine out of either tank at any time as well. So
I can polish the same one I am running out of if I wish. I guess the
choice of which to polish while running is up for grabs.

I think I'd route it so that I can route either tank to the polishing
system then 'T' the polishing system to the engine and the return to
either tank. Just make sure you're returning to the same tank you're
drawing from. A simplified version (without bypass plumbing which is a
pain to draw) looks something like this: (view with fixed point font
like courier)

-------------- /--------------------------T---------|
| Y select / return to tanks | |
---------- | --------------- |
| | |(to tank 2) | check valve | |
| Tank 1 | --------------- |
| |---------- ------------- | |
---------- | | Polishing | -------- | ----------
|from | filters | | | | \ | |
Y select /----| with |-| Pump |-T- \-| Engine |
---------- /tanks| bypassing | | | | |
| | | ------------- -------- ----------
| Tank 2 | |
| |----------
---------- out

If the above ascii drawing looks horrible, sorry. But basically, the
supply from both tanks goes to a Y valve which feeds either to the
polishing filters. That's where you'd put the bypass valves so you can
go around any filter (GCF or Racor). Then to a T where one side goes to
a shutoff valve then to the engine. The shutoff valve is so that you
can turn off fuel to the engine while you're priming the system after
changing filters so air won't get in the engine. You can also plumb it
so that the engine can draw from the tanka bypassing the filters so you
can prime them and run the engine at the same time if that's a
requirement. I didn't care about that since I don't run the engine all
that much (sailboat.) Also not shown is that you want to install vacuum
gauges, one before the GCF filter, one between the GCF and the Racor and
one after the Racor before the Walbro pump. Any difference more than a
few psi across a filter means it's time for an element change.

The other side of the T goes to a check valve. That's there so that if
the electric pump fails the engine won't suck air from the return lines.
Then there's a T where the engine return and the polishing system return
join and go to another Y valve to select where to return the fuel to.
Just make sure both Y valves are in the same position. You can also use
this as a fuel transfering pump if you want to, by putting the Y valves
in different positions. But be careful you don't overflow the tank
being filled.

Steve

Steve,

I understood that you were suggesting that I leave the polishing system
running while running the engine. Since I have 2 tanks it seems to me
to require two polishing systems to keep polishing while running. The
system I have designed allows me to polish either of the two tanks
at any time and run the engine out of either tank at any time as well. So
I can polish the same one I am running out of if I wish. I guess the
choice of which to polish while running is up for grabs.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:21:58 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:

That would require me to have 2 pretty much independent polishing
systems. I don't really have the room for that and the extra
expense would be hard to justify.

I guess I don't understand your system. Why would it require two
independent polishing systems? Even with a single set of filters (GCF
fillowed by Racor) you can use valves and piping to plumb the thing any
way you want.

Steve

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 23:41:45 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

That may be true, and as long as it stays there the engine still
runs fine. If it does get shaken up, the a polishing system will
do its job while lessing the crud going through the engine filtering
system. Once initial polishing is done, I will be alternating between
tanks. One running while the other polishing. Getting things shaken
up is the best thing I can hope for.

Why not just always leave the polishing system in-line? Allow for a
bypass to change a filter or if it develops a vacuum leak, but other
then that, there's nothing wrong with always using "just polished"
fuel.

Steve