* Duncan McC (NZ) wrote, On 6/10/2007 10:02 PM:
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices,
yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few
other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate the
boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).


Here is the decal from the 26M. I don't know if the 26X had the same
warning, but IIRC the boat that rolled didn't have a decal.

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/sa...l_apr_2006.pdf

The M version was redesigned to include several hundred pounds of
ballast plus foam in the mast which means that it should be
self-righting in most situations. In the X version, they say that if
the boat heels 50 degrees without water ballast it will quite possibly
capsize and not self-right.

Here is the full list of safety recommendations/warnings on the site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Some of the warnings would apply to any boat, but many are unique for
a 26 foot sailboat sold as a "cruiser." In particular, without the
water ballast crew size is limited to 4 people/640 pounds. Having
sailed many years in daysailers 15-19 feet, the concept of a 26 foot
cruising boat with a cabin that is unsafe with 5 people on board is
quite unexpected.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Duncan McC (NZ) wrote, On 6/10/2007 10:02 PM:
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices,
yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few
other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate the
boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).


Here is the decal from the 26M. I don't know if the 26X had the same
warning, but IIRC the boat that rolled didn't have a decal.

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/sa...l_apr_2006.pdf

The M version was redesigned to include several hundred pounds of
ballast plus foam in the mast which means that it should be
self-righting in most situations. In the X version, they say that if
the boat heels 50 degrees without water ballast it will quite possibly
capsize and not self-right.

Here is the full list of safety recommendations/warnings on the site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Some of the warnings would apply to any boat, but many are unique for
a 26 foot sailboat sold as a "cruiser." In particular, without the
water ballast crew size is limited to 4 people/640 pounds. Having
sailed many years in daysailers 15-19 feet, the concept of a 26 foot
cruising boat with a cabin that is unsafe with 5 people on board is
quite unexpected.

That is a bit of an eye-opener!
It is hard to believe that a boat designed with these use restrictions is
offered to its target market, even for use in calm coastal waters. I wonder
how many dealers ensure that buyers know exactly what they are getting?
ChrisR

"chrisR" wrote in message
...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Duncan McC (NZ) wrote, On 6/10/2007 10:02 PM:
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices,
yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few
other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate the
boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).


Here is the decal from the 26M. I don't know if the 26X had the same
warning, but IIRC the boat that rolled didn't have a decal.

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/sa...l_apr_2006.pdf

The M version was redesigned to include several hundred pounds of
ballast plus foam in the mast which means that it should be
self-righting in most situations. In the X version, they say that if
the boat heels 50 degrees without water ballast it will quite possibly
capsize and not self-right.

Here is the full list of safety recommendations/warnings on the site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Some of the warnings would apply to any boat, but many are unique for
a 26 foot sailboat sold as a "cruiser." In particular, without the
water ballast crew size is limited to 4 people/640 pounds. Having
sailed many years in daysailers 15-19 feet, the concept of a 26 foot
cruising boat with a cabin that is unsafe with 5 people on board is
quite unexpected.

That is a bit of an eye-opener!
It is hard to believe that a boat designed with these use restrictions is
offered to its target market, even for use in calm coastal waters. I
wonder
how many dealers ensure that buyers know exactly what they are getting?
ChrisR

I used to know the owner of one of the largest dealers of them in Northern
California. He told me two things. They sell like crazy, and they're crap
boats. No, they don't fully inform the prospective owners certainly.... they
want to make the sale.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"chrisR" wrote in :


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Duncan McC (NZ) wrote, On 6/10/2007 10:02 PM:
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to
novices, yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on
very few other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate
the boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).


Here is the decal from the 26M. I don't know if the 26X had the same
warning, but IIRC the boat that rolled didn't have a decal.

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/sa...l_apr_2006.pdf

The M version was redesigned to include several hundred pounds of
ballast plus foam in the mast which means that it should be
self-righting in most situations. In the X version, they say that if
the boat heels 50 degrees without water ballast it will quite
possibly capsize and not self-right.

Here is the full list of safety recommendations/warnings on the site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Some of the warnings would apply to any boat, but many are unique for
a 26 foot sailboat sold as a "cruiser." In particular, without the
water ballast crew size is limited to 4 people/640 pounds. Having
sailed many years in daysailers 15-19 feet, the concept of a 26 foot
cruising boat with a cabin that is unsafe with 5 people on board is
quite unexpected.

That is a bit of an eye-opener!
It is hard to believe that a boat designed with these use restrictions
is offered to its target market, even for use in calm coastal waters.
I wonder how many dealers ensure that buyers know exactly what they
are getting? ChrisR



Is that a dealer's job? I don't think so. The dealers job is to deliver
a ready-to-go boat with all the paperwork. It's up to the buyer to
educate himself. Sure the dealer should answer all questions honestly
but how many people ask intelligent questions these days? If I were a
dealer I'd just caution the buyer to be sure to familiarize himself with
the owner's manual and pay attention to the warnings in it and on
stickers on the boat.

How many car dealers give lessons and warnings when selling a high
performance Mustang? That would probably be insulting to most customers.


--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm

Jeff wrote in
:

* Duncan McC (NZ) wrote, On 6/10/2007 10:02 PM:
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to
novices, yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on
very few other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate
the boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).


Here is the decal from the 26M. I don't know if the 26X had the same
warning, but IIRC the boat that rolled didn't have a decal.

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/sa...l_apr_2006.pdf

The M version was redesigned to include several hundred pounds of
ballast plus foam in the mast which means that it should be
self-righting in most situations. In the X version, they say that if
the boat heels 50 degrees without water ballast it will quite possibly
capsize and not self-right.

Here is the full list of safety recommendations/warnings on the site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Some of the warnings would apply to any boat, but many are unique for
a 26 foot sailboat sold as a "cruiser." In particular, without the
water ballast crew size is limited to 4 people/640 pounds. Having
sailed many years in daysailers 15-19 feet, the concept of a 26 foot
cruising boat with a cabin that is unsafe with 5 people on board is
quite unexpected.




You've got to get back to basics. The Mac26X or M are trailerable boats.
The ballast is water so it can be drained for trailering. That's all you
have to remember. Fill the ballast tank right after you launch and drain
it right after you pull. That's not so hard is it?

Once you got the basics down you just have to remember that even with
the ballast tank full it's still a trailer boat that can't be treated
like a heavy ballast keel boat. It's a compromise and a damned good one
but you gotta keep it in mind all the time. Get drunk and forget and you
might pay for your stupidity.

I like to look at it this way. Macs are for the more intelligent and
careful sailors. Heavy keel boats perform poorer but are harder to
capsize so you can get drunk and sloppy and get away with it more often.
A Mac is like riding a thorobred. Hang on and enjoy the greater speed
and versatility but don't get complacent.


--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:41:33 +0200 (CEST), Ed Gordon
wrote:

A Mac is like riding a thorobred.

Right.

"Ed Gordon" wrote in message
8...
I like to look at it this way. Macs are for the more intelligent and
careful sailors. Heavy keel boats perform poorer but are harder to
capsize so you can get drunk and sloppy and get away with it more often.
A Mac is like riding a thorobred. Hang on and enjoy the greater speed
and versatility but don't get complacent.


--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm

With the ballast tanks full, it's a displacement hull limited in its
hullspeed just like any "heavy keel boat." It's also under-rigged compared
to those heavier deep keel displacement boats, and can't carry much in the
way of light air sails.

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/11/2007 2:41 PM:


You've got to get back to basics. The Mac26X or M are trailerable boats.
The ballast is water so it can be drained for trailering. That's all you
have to remember. Fill the ballast tank right after you launch and drain
it right after you pull. That's not so hard is it?

And yet, just yesterday, you bragged about how fast it would go with
an empty ballast tank with the Honda engine.



Once you got the basics down you just have to remember that even with
the ballast tank full it's still a trailer boat that can't be treated
like a heavy ballast keel boat. It's a compromise and a damned good one
but you gotta keep it in mind all the time. Get drunk and forget and you
might pay for your stupidity.

In other words, all other boats are for normal people, the Mac is only
for "special" people.


I like to look at it this way. Macs are for the more intelligent and
careful sailors. Heavy keel boats perform poorer but are harder to
capsize so you can get drunk and sloppy and get away with it more often.

So please explain to us which boats it sails faster than. You've said
many times that its a "fast sailer" but when I look at the ratings, I
have trouble finding a boat remotely comparable to a Mac that isn't
10% faster, or more. In fact, its real hard to find a boat that's
slower than a Mac. So please, give us an example of a boat that sails
slower than a Mac.


A Mac is like riding a thorobred. Hang on and enjoy the greater speed
and versatility but don't get complacent.

Yes, that's the perfect boat for a family cruiser. Even in perfect
weather, if you get complacent it will roll over and kill you.

Jeff wrote in
:


And yet, just yesterday, you bragged about how fast it would go with
an empty ballast tank with the Honda engine.


Hey, man, I can do it because I'm not stupid or drunk. I was smart
enough not to have bowriders etc. Keep the people inside or in the
cockpit for stability with an empty tank. It does go faster without the
ballast under power. It's just plain physics.



So please explain to us which boats it sails faster than. You've said
many times that its a "fast sailer" but when I look at the ratings, I
have trouble finding a boat remotely comparable to a Mac that isn't
10% faster, or more. In fact, its real hard to find a boat that's
slower than a Mac. So please, give us an example of a boat that sails
slower than a Mac.

Any boat that has less length waterline will be slower than a Mac under
sail. But since the Mac is a plaining hull it can go faster than heavy
ballast keel boats in winds strong enough to plain it off. You want an
example, just look up boats that have less than a 23 feet. Here's one
much slower Alerion Express 20.



Yes, that's the perfect boat for a family cruiser. Even in perfect
weather, if you get complacent it will roll over and kill you.

Catamarans roll over and kill people too. People still buy them too.
It's because they know the risks. Every boat has it's own risks. You're
too uptight, man.



--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/12/2007 11:53 AM:
Jeff wrote in
:

And yet, just yesterday, you bragged about how fast it would go with
an empty ballast tank with the Honda engine.


Hey, man, I can do it because I'm not stupid or drunk. I was smart
enough not to have bowriders etc. Keep the people inside or in the
cockpit for stability with an empty tank. It does go faster without the
ballast under power. It's just plain physics.

So what is it? First you say fill the tanks, now you say run empty?


So please explain to us which boats it sails faster than. You've said
many times that its a "fast sailer" but when I look at the ratings, I
have trouble finding a boat remotely comparable to a Mac that isn't
10% faster, or more. In fact, its real hard to find a boat that's
slower than a Mac. So please, give us an example of a boat that sails
slower than a Mac.

Any boat that has less length waterline will be slower than a Mac under
sail.

Only an idiot or a simpleton would make that claim. There are many
more factors than waterline length.

But since the Mac is a plaining hull it can go faster than heavy
ballast keel boats in winds strong enough to plain it off.

The Mac can plane only in certain limited situations.

You want an
example, just look up boats that have less than a 23 feet. Here's one
much slower Alerion Express 20.

Oh, so you pick a boat 6 feet shorter - one that's designed for simple
daysailing. It shouldn't be too hard to beat a boat like that. OK,
lets look at the USSailing Portsmouth Yardstick for these two boats.
The Mac 26X is 99.5, but the Alerion 20 is only 93.1. So that means
the Alerion is more than 6% faster than the Mac.

Sorry, maybe you're faster than a Rhodes 19. Nope, that's 96.9.
Wait! I found one! You're faster than a Typhoon, the 18 foot Alberg
design. It only rates 106.9. Congratulations, the mac is not the
slowest boat on the water!

Yes, that's the perfect boat for a family cruiser. Even in perfect
weather, if you get complacent it will roll over and kill you.

Catamarans roll over and kill people too. People still buy them too.
It's because they know the risks. Every boat has it's own risks. You're
too uptight, man.

The difference is that a cat has a small chance of rolling in extreme
weather, hurricanes and the like. The Mac has a chance of rolling if
a few people are standing up and you goose the throttle by mistake.