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#11
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Mac26X fit for all waters
On Jun 9, 2:45 pm, Ed Gordon wrote:
http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/p11.htm Myth#11 Mac26 is not for ocean sailing. Cheerio, Ed Gordon Dude................. quit yapin and go do it. Post a few pictures when ya get to England. If its so easy to do in a Mac somone with your obvious skill, experince, and intellignece will have no problems at all............. I look forward to you reports of a safe, quick, and relaxing voyage. I bet you and Skip, and Lydia will have lots of stories to swap. Bob |
#12
posted to alt.sailing.asa,rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Mac26X fit for all waters
* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 11:49 AM:
I did find this though... http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html You can't blame the boat for that terrible tragedy. It said the guy was drunk and it said this too: "The boat that capsized on the Fourth of July and killed two children was overloaded and was being used incorrectly, according to the boat's manufacturer." "The 26-foot MacGregor, which is a cross between a sailboat and a power boat, is designed to hold up to six people, according to Roger MacGregor, the boat company's owner. The boat carried 11 people the night of July 4." "The boat's hybrid design uses a water tank on the bottom to provide stability. The tank should be filled when there are more than four people on board, MacGregor said. The tank on the boat driven July 4 by George Dean Martin was empty, according to the prosecutor in the case." The guy was dumb and drunk. Don't blame the Mac!!! Sure we can blame the Mac. Half the boaters out there were probably drunk and yet only one capsized. And he didn't just capsize it, it rolled within seconds of leaving the anchorage because he goosed the throttle by mistake. While there were 11 people on board, 3 were small children and down below, so the boat was not grossly overloaded by the standards of ordinary boats. My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices, yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few other boats. |
#13
posted to alt.sailing.asa,rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Mac26X fit for all waters
Jeff wrote in
: * Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 11:49 AM: I did find this though... http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html You can't blame the boat for that terrible tragedy. It said the guy was drunk and it said this too: "The boat that capsized on the Fourth of July and killed two children was overloaded and was being used incorrectly, according to the boat's manufacturer." "The 26-foot MacGregor, which is a cross between a sailboat and a power boat, is designed to hold up to six people, according to Roger MacGregor, the boat company's owner. The boat carried 11 people the night of July 4." "The boat's hybrid design uses a water tank on the bottom to provide stability. The tank should be filled when there are more than four people on board, MacGregor said. The tank on the boat driven July 4 by George Dean Martin was empty, according to the prosecutor in the case." The guy was dumb and drunk. Don't blame the Mac!!! Sure we can blame the Mac. Half the boaters out there were probably drunk and yet only one capsized. And he didn't just capsize it, it rolled within seconds of leaving the anchorage because he goosed the throttle by mistake. While there were 11 people on board, 3 were small children and down below, so the boat was not grossly overloaded by the standards of ordinary boats. My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices, yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few other boats. Well, then maybe they should sit down and read the owner's manual. What do you expect? a warning sticker plastered on every part of the boat? No matter how hard you try to think of how people can screw up people can always screw up worse than you think they can. If you had a warning that said don't get drunk and operate this boat, don't put more than six people in it, and so forth you'd just get ignored. If you don't count the little kids you end up with eight adults. That's still two too many. Would you blame an airplane that crashed because it said it was for four passengers and they crammed eight people in it? Nope. That would be pilot error. So don't blame the Mac. If you built a boat that was idiot proof it'd be a square room with rubber walls firmly stuck to the ground. -- Cheerio, Ed Gordon http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm |
#14
posted to alt.sailing.asa,rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Mac26X fit for all waters
* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 7:06 PM:
Jeff wrote in .... My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices, yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few other boats. Well, then maybe they should sit down and read the owner's manual. What do you expect? a warning sticker plastered on every part of the boat? No matter how hard you try to think of how people can screw up people can always screw up worse than you think they can. If you had a warning that said don't get drunk and operate this boat, don't put more than six people in it, and so forth you'd just get ignored. If you don't count the little kids you end up with eight adults. That's still two too many. You miss the important issue here. There are very few other boats that would have capsized in this situation. If this had been a keel boat, or if the ballast tank were filled, or if it didn't have a 50hp engine, there would not have been a problem. Would you blame an airplane that crashed because it said it was for four passengers and they crammed eight people in it? The people were not "crammed" onto the Mac. I'm sure that they felt there was plenty of room. A Rhodes 19 would be "crammed," but not a 16 footer. Nope. That would be pilot error. So don't blame the Mac. If you built a boat that was idiot proof it'd be a square room with rubber walls firmly stuck to the ground. Sorry. I prefer boats that do not suddenly roll over when there is no wind or waves. |
#15
posted to alt.sailing.asa,rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Mac26X fit for all waters
* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 12:08 PM:
Jeff wrote in : It was that web site that made me lose all respect for certain Mac owners. It is, like some Mac proponents, a stream of nautical gibberish. There's enough nautical nonsense to fill a pineapple under the sea. That's because you admitted you hate Macs, man!!! Where did I "admit" that? I love innovative boats. I just dislike foolish claims by ignorant novices. .... That makes sense - the boat dances at anchor and therefore must be just like a multihull. He's talking about the speed not the kind of hull. I think he's thinking about shallow draft like most catamarans are shallow draft so they dance around at anchor because they don't have a big heavy deep keel to keep them in one place. It makes sense to me. Sorry, boats "dance" because of their windage relative to the lateral resistance. Boat with high freeboard (like a Mac) or a rig forward (Nonsuch or Freedom) or forward coachroof (many cruising cats) dance. Shallow draft is usually not the significant factor. In another place he asserts a tacking angle of 64 degrees, even though most Mac owners report the expected 95 degrees. You gotta know how to sail them, man. 64 degrees is too low and 95 degrees is dreaming. Even the Americas cup boats can't do 95% unless the wind is maybe blowing six or seven mph. I used to tack about 75 or 80 degrees with mind in moderate breezes. In heaver winds it might be low around 60 because of the slippage because of the short keel that doesn't bite that great. As I said, I don't like foolish claims by ignorant novices. Macs can do 20. 12-15 is about half throttle, man. And the article said there are lots of Macs in England and some of them were probily saiked there. Macs can do 20 with some engines in idealized conditions. Loaded with cruising gear, fuel, ballast tank full, and fighting a minimal ocean chop, 15 is a more realistic upper limit. In fact, while the Mac boards have some people claiming extreme speeds, they also have a lot of folks that admit they have never been above 12 knots. A telling thing about some of the ventures you mention is that they are in groups, not alone. For whatever reason, they didn't want to be alone out there. Even you adimitted Mac owners are a friendly group of people who enjoy some company of fellow enthusiasts. Having the same boat makes it easier to stay together. ALL boaters are friendly, and most will sail in company. However, it seems that Macs can only do a few miles offshore if its a "Coordinated Event." And, for all the claims, I've never actually seen a Mac outside of protected waters, nor have I ever seen one at a "cruisers' anchorage." Well, I guess that means it NEVER happens. You sail everwhere all the time and know about what all the boats in the world are doing. Nope. But you're the one claiming that Macs sail more than "keel boats" and the don't mind going out in the ocean. Since I've done about 12000 miles cruising since the 26X came out, you would think I might see one on occasion. At my marina there are two in slips nearby. Last summer I saw each go out once. At my previous marina there was once that I saw out once in two years. You da man! I bet it burns you up when a Mac comes sailing by your slow heavy keel boat. First of all, I don't have a keel boat. And I can assure you that its much faster than a Mac on all points of sail. But, you shouldn't cop an attitude because maybe your boat is slower and not as versatil but it might have at least one good point. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! What kinda boat do you have anyway? Probably a cheap Hunter or something like that. A PDQ 36 catamaran. More boat than you can even dream of. |
#16
posted to alt.sailing.asa,rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Mac26X fit for all waters
"Ed Gordon" wrote in The guy was dumb and drunk when he bought the Mac!!! that's no excuse. |
#17
posted to alt.sailing.asa,rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Mac26X fit for all waters
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#18
posted to alt.sailing.asa,rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Mac26X fit for all waters
In article , egordon873
@aol.com says... Duncan McC (NZ) wrote in . nz: In article , egordon873 @aol.com says... http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/p11.htm Myth#11 Mac26 is not for ocean sailing. Go ahead, click the link and see just how good and seaworthy a professional captain thinks the Mac really is. Dare you. Jeff expecially. Wow gee whiz. I didn't read all the guff - what a god awful website. I did find this though... http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html You can't blame the boat for that terrible tragedy. It said the guy was drunk and it said this too: "The boat that capsized on the Fourth of July and killed two children was overloaded and was being used incorrectly, according to the boat's manufacturer." "The 26-foot MacGregor, which is a cross between a sailboat and a power boat, is designed to hold up to six people, according to Roger MacGregor, the boat company's owner. The boat carried 11 people the night of July 4." "The boat's hybrid design uses a water tank on the bottom to provide stability. The tank should be filled when there are more than four people on board, MacGregor said. The tank on the boat driven July 4 by George Dean Martin was empty, according to the prosecutor in the case." The guy was dumb and drunk. Don't blame the Mac!!! Agreed it was the skipper's fault - however, *when* do you have the water ballast in? Or better... when do you operate with no water ballast in? IMO, that's a curly question - and best answered (unlike the info online) - "all the time the boat is in the water". It just isn't safe otherwise. snip Overall I think the Mac retains it's - it's neither this, and it's neither that - label, sorry. It's what you make of it. If you want it to be a saiboat it's a pretty fast and safe sailboat. If you want a motorboat it's a pretty fast and safe motor boat. It's the best of both worlds. Everybody who doesn't know anything complains about the rudders. They say they are too lightly built. They are too dumb to remember they are slender because they also are a power boat rudders that have to be able to go throught the water way faster than a heavy keelboat rudder has to. They are tuffer than you think since they hold up going twenty or more mph. The rigging is light so it's easier to put the mast up and down. It's a trailerable boat remember. You can't make the mast and wiring too big or it'll be too heavy to put it up. It's designed to be light and strong and is plenty strong for the sails you get with it. I would disagree and say it's not a very fast sailboat, and not a very fast motorboat (people don't *really* waterski behind them do they!!!) So it doesn't fit into either world. I think the rigging on say an F7.5 or a Noelex 25 is about right - I think the Mac is too light (but admit I've read of few rigging failures). I certainly have no problem at all steppping my mast, even by myself (bit tricky, but I can do it - it's not the weight that's the problem, it's hanging onto the lines and holding the mast up that's the tricky bit)). I'd guess the standing rigging is 4mm SS... http://hitime.no-ip.info What is the Macs? I also thought (and it could just be the particular setup) that the rigging on the Mac I went out on was set *way* too light - I have the F75 set to a sorta dull piano twang tension (at a guess, twice as taut as the Mac I went out on). -- Duncan |
#20
posted to alt.sailing.asa,rec.boats.cruising,uk.rec.sailing
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Mac26X fit for all waters
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:01:24 +1200, Duncan McC (NZ)
wrote: I think the rigging on say an F7.5 or a Noelex 25 is about right - I think the Mac is too light (but admit I've read of few rigging failures). We have a bunch of them around here in SW FL. When I see them underway they are almost always under power in protected water. The ability to sail seems to be primarily an illusion and marketing gimmick. Once you get out into open water here with the wind blowing 20+, we sometimes get beat up a bit even on a 49 ft, 50,000 lb trawler. Going out in the Gulf Stream on a windy day in a lightly ballasted 26 footer of any type would be comparable to volunteering for the submarine service. |
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