* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 12:08 PM:
Jeff wrote in
:

It was that web site that made me lose all respect for certain Mac
owners. It is, like some Mac proponents, a stream of nautical
gibberish. There's enough nautical nonsense to fill a pineapple under
the sea.

That's because you admitted you hate Macs, man!!!

Where did I "admit" that? I love innovative boats. I just dislike
foolish claims by ignorant novices.

....
That makes sense - the boat dances at anchor and therefore must be
just like a multihull.

He's talking about the speed not the kind of hull. I think he's thinking
about shallow draft like most catamarans are shallow draft so they dance
around at anchor because they don't have a big heavy deep keel to keep
them in one place. It makes sense to me.

Sorry, boats "dance" because of their windage relative to the lateral
resistance. Boat with high freeboard (like a Mac) or a rig forward
(Nonsuch or Freedom) or forward coachroof (many cruising cats) dance.
Shallow draft is usually not the significant factor.



In another place he asserts a tacking angle of 64 degrees, even though
most Mac owners report the expected 95 degrees.

You gotta know how to sail them, man. 64 degrees is too low and 95
degrees is dreaming. Even the Americas cup boats can't do 95% unless the
wind is maybe blowing six or seven mph. I used to tack about 75 or 80
degrees with mind in moderate breezes. In heaver winds it might be low
around 60 because of the slippage because of the short keel that doesn't
bite that great.

As I said, I don't like foolish claims by ignorant novices.


Macs can do 20. 12-15 is about half throttle, man. And the article said
there are lots of Macs in England and some of them were probily saiked
there.

Macs can do 20 with some engines in idealized conditions. Loaded with
cruising gear, fuel, ballast tank full, and fighting a minimal ocean
chop, 15 is a more realistic upper limit. In fact, while the Mac
boards have some people claiming extreme speeds, they also have a lot
of folks that admit they have never been above 12 knots.



A telling thing about some of the ventures you mention is that they
are in groups, not alone. For whatever reason, they didn't want to be
alone out there.

Even you adimitted Mac owners are a friendly group of people who enjoy
some company of fellow enthusiasts. Having the same boat makes it easier
to stay together.

ALL boaters are friendly, and most will sail in company. However, it
seems that Macs can only do a few miles offshore if its a "Coordinated
Event."



And, for all the claims, I've never actually seen a Mac outside of
protected waters, nor have I ever seen one at a "cruisers' anchorage."


Well, I guess that means it NEVER happens. You sail everwhere all the
time and know about what all the boats in the world are doing.

Nope. But you're the one claiming that Macs sail more than "keel
boats" and the don't mind going out in the ocean. Since I've done
about 12000 miles cruising since the 26X came out, you would think I
might see one on occasion.

At my marina there are two in slips nearby. Last summer I saw each go
out once. At my previous marina there was once that I saw out once in
two years.


You da
man! I bet it burns you up when a Mac comes sailing by your slow heavy
keel boat.

First of all, I don't have a keel boat. And I can assure you that its
much faster than a Mac on all points of sail.

But, you shouldn't cop an attitude because maybe your boat is
slower and not as versatil but it might have at least one good point. Ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! What kinda boat do you have anyway?
Probably a cheap Hunter or something like that.

A PDQ 36 catamaran. More boat than you can even dream of.

Jeff wrote in
:

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 12:08 PM:
Jeff wrote in
:

It was that web site that made me lose all respect for certain Mac
owners. It is, like some Mac proponents, a stream of nautical
gibberish. There's enough nautical nonsense to fill a pineapple
under the sea.

That's because you admitted you hate Macs, man!!!

Where did I "admit" that? I love innovative boats. I just dislike
foolish claims by ignorant novices.

...
That makes sense - the boat dances at anchor and therefore must be
just like a multihull.

He's talking about the speed not the kind of hull. I think he's
thinking about shallow draft like most catamarans are shallow draft
so they dance around at anchor because they don't have a big heavy
deep keel to keep them in one place. It makes sense to me.

Sorry, boats "dance" because of their windage relative to the lateral
resistance. Boat with high freeboard (like a Mac) or a rig forward
(Nonsuch or Freedom) or forward coachroof (many cruising cats) dance.
Shallow draft is usually not the significant factor.


I disagree. Take an old deep keel and long keel boat like a Westerly 32.
It will barely move at all at anchor. The deep long keel keeps it
straight into the wind like a weather vane.Boat's that dance at anchor
say "shallow draft".


In another place he asserts a tacking angle of 64 degrees, even
though most Mac owners report the expected 95 degrees.

You gotta know how to sail them, man. 64 degrees is too low and 95
degrees is dreaming. Even the Americas cup boats can't do 95% unless
the wind is maybe blowing six or seven mph. I used to tack about 75
or 80 degrees with mind in moderate breezes. In heaver winds it might
be low around 60 because of the slippage because of the short keel
that doesn't bite that great.

As I said, I don't like foolish claims by ignorant novices.

I'm hardly a novice. I've owned and sailed a Mac 26X. I was always
worried about how sea worthy it was and one of the main reasons was
because it was shallow draft and seaworthy boats are usually deep draft.
But, not all of them.




Macs can do 20. 12-15 is about half throttle, man. And the article
said there are lots of Macs in England and some of them were probily
saiked there.

Macs can do 20 with some engines in idealized conditions. Loaded with
cruising gear, fuel, ballast tank full, and fighting a minimal ocean
chop, 15 is a more realistic upper limit. In fact, while the Mac
boards have some people claiming extreme speeds, they also have a lot
of folks that admit they have never been above 12 knots.


Well they must have motors that aren't running right if they go that
slow. Or maybe they've got them way overloaded. A Mac is like your
catamaran you claim to have. If you overload them too much it makes them
slow.

Nope. But you're the one claiming that Macs sail more than "keel
boats" and the don't mind going out in the ocean. Since I've done
about 12000 miles cruising since the 26X came out, you would think I
might see one on occasion.

You're as bad as that other guy who said he always sees Macs in
protected waters. That means he's in protected waters himself. If he
wants to see Macs in unprotected waters he needs to go out in
unprotected waters himself.


First of all, I don't have a keel boat. And I can assure you that its
much faster than a Mac on all points of sail.

But, you shouldn't cop an attitude because maybe your boat is
slower and not as versatil but it might have at least one good point.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! What kinda boat do you have anyway?
Probably a cheap Hunter or something like that.

A PDQ 36 catamaran. More boat than you can even dream of.


Not even legal to trailer. You need a wide-load permit for that boat of
yours. I bet you have to pay extra for a wider slip too. Probably double
the cost of a Mac slip. I prefer a boat you don't have to go to the poor
house to own and enjoy.

--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/11/2007 3:21 PM:
Sorry, boats "dance" because of their windage relative to the lateral
resistance. Boat with high freeboard (like a Mac) or a rig forward
(Nonsuch or Freedom) or forward coachroof (many cruising cats) dance.
Shallow draft is usually not the significant factor.


I disagree. Take an old deep keel and long keel boat like a Westerly 32.
It will barely move at all at anchor. The deep long keel keeps it
straight into the wind like a weather vane.Boat's that dance at anchor
say "shallow draft".

I don't know which Westerly you mean, they made several 32 footers.
But none that I know have either "deep" or "long" keels.

So if a Mac dances too much, why not just lower the center/daggerboard
to increase the draft? Its because the dancing is caused by the high
freeboard creating too much windage forward.




In another place he asserts a tacking angle of 64 degrees, even
though most Mac owners report the expected 95 degrees.
You gotta know how to sail them, man. 64 degrees is too low and 95
degrees is dreaming. Even the Americas cup boats can't do 95% unless
the wind is maybe blowing six or seven mph. I used to tack about 75
or 80 degrees with mind in moderate breezes. In heaver winds it might
be low around 60 because of the slippage because of the short keel
that doesn't bite that great.
As I said, I don't like foolish claims by ignorant novices.

I'm hardly a novice. I've owned and sailed a Mac 26X. I was always
worried about how sea worthy it was and one of the main reasons was
because it was shallow draft and seaworthy boats are usually deep draft.
But, not all of them.

If you're not a novice, how could you write such gibberish about the
tacking angle? Do you even understand what it is?




Macs can do 20. 12-15 is about half throttle, man. And the article
said there are lots of Macs in England and some of them were probily
saiked there.
Macs can do 20 with some engines in idealized conditions. Loaded with
cruising gear, fuel, ballast tank full, and fighting a minimal ocean
chop, 15 is a more realistic upper limit. In fact, while the Mac
boards have some people claiming extreme speeds, they also have a lot
of folks that admit they have never been above 12 knots.


Well they must have motors that aren't running right if they go that
slow. Or maybe they've got them way overloaded. A Mac is like your
catamaran you claim to have. If you overload them too much it makes them
slow.

No, the one I remember were real cruisers who went out for more than
one overnight. I assume they had the boats somewhat loaded and didn't
think it was prudent to go faster. Roger MacGregor himself says that
the top speed is reduced a knot for every hundred pounds, it really
doesn't take a lot of extra gear, food, water, and fuel to reduce the
top speed considerably.

On top of that, the fuel economy at full throttle isn't all that good.



Nope. But you're the one claiming that Macs sail more than "keel
boats" and the don't mind going out in the ocean. Since I've done
about 12000 miles cruising since the 26X came out, you would think I
might see one on occasion.

You're as bad as that other guy who said he always sees Macs in
protected waters. That means he's in protected waters himself. If he
wants to see Macs in unprotected waters he needs to go out in
unprotected waters himself.

I do the vast majority of my sailing outside of the harbor. However,
I'm generally on "standard routes" for cruisers, such as Boston to
Provincetown, or Gloucester, etc. And we spend a lot of time at the
common destinations. I see Hunters, Catalinas, Bene's, and all of
the other expected boats. But I don't see Macs. Its not as though
they're hard to spot - they don't exactly blend in.

Of course, part of this is that Mac's are not too popular here in New
England. Within Boston Harbor there's a number of places to sail, but
once you get "outside" you're in the open ocean and it gets a little
too bouncy for a lightweight boat. While we don't always have 3-4
foot seas, its often enough that you have to always be prepared for it.



First of all, I don't have a keel boat. And I can assure you that its
much faster than a Mac on all points of sail.

But, you shouldn't cop an attitude because maybe your boat is
slower and not as versatil but it might have at least one good point.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! What kinda boat do you have anyway?
Probably a cheap Hunter or something like that.
A PDQ 36 catamaran. More boat than you can even dream of.


Not even legal to trailer. You need a wide-load permit for that boat of
yours.

At 18 feet wide I don't think any of my sisterships have ever been on
a trailer!

I bet you have to pay extra for a wider slip too. Probably double
the cost of a Mac slip.

Nope - I've never had to pay double. While traveling, we virtually
never have had to pay a premium. Finding a "home slip" however is a
bit more difficult, and I often pay about a modest premium to be in a
special spot that's usually saved for larger boats, but on average I'm
way ahead on that score.

I prefer a boat you don't have to go to the poor
house to own and enjoy.

Each to his own - I like to live on the boat for the summer with my
family, and have guests join us for extended stays. That's not too
practical on a Mac.

"Jeff" wrote in


Not even legal to trailer. You need a wide-load permit
for that boat of
yours.

with a permit, it would then be legal, you putz.




At 18 feet wide I don't think any of my sisterships have
ever been on
a trailer!


probably right, but it is doable.

Scotty

* Scotty wrote, On 6/11/2007 11:34 PM:
At 18 feet wide I don't think any of my sisterships have
ever been on a trailer!

probably right, but it is doable.


Actually, I should have added "on a public road." My boat, and its
sisters, were hauled on a special trailer from the factory (the same
building Alberg 30's and Whitby 42's were built in) across the lot to
the marina for launch with a crane. Virtually all of the boats left
the factory on their own bottoms, but there were rumors that a few of
the smaller cats (15 foot beams) left on the highway.

"Ed Gordon" wrote in message
8...

snip

I disagree. Take an old deep keel and long keel boat like a Westerly 32.
It will barely move at all at anchor. The deep long keel keeps it
straight into the wind like a weather vane.

Not if there's any tide running they don't.

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:44:33 -0400, Jeff wrote:

A PDQ 36 catamaran. More boat than you can even dream of.

The PDQ 36 is a quarter million dollar boat. Guess it's quite easy to
look down your nose at the lowly Mac 26.
If my wife would let me sell the house I might consider the PDQ, and
could then look down on the Mac myself.
Since she'd leave me, I could fit quite a few broads on that PDQ.
But that won't happen.
Some folks just want to get on the water in whatever they can afford.
I'm sure Ed Gordon's deep love of the Mac 26 is partly due to the
affordability factor, and that the price can even allow him the
opportunity of sailing or powering a *new* boat.
It isn't as roomy, as safe, or as fast as your PDQ, but it allows
him to get out there on the water.
Thanks for recommending the Marshall and Parker for gunkholing,
but they are impractical for me, and for most who would go with the
Mac 26. As you can see, the Marshall 22 starts at 68k:
http://www.marshallcat.com/M22Lines.htm
Looking at the option list, its safe to say the boat cost is about 3
times the cost of a Mac 26. It's a pretty boat, but out of my price
range. Looks like it isn't as roomy as the Mac, too.
And despite its looks and sailing qualities, some may find it as Cape
Cod precious.
My favorite option:
Cetol finish on teak - 4 coats 1,950.00
That's about what I pay for a car.
As to the Parker:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18
I didn't even look at the price, seeing the recommended power is
Yamaha Twin F150
Yamaha Twin F200
Right there before you get the boat you've exceeded the cost of the
Mac 26. Not to mention all the gas guzzling. I guess I could just
buy the Yammies and run them in barrels in the back yard, but I don't
want to.
To be fair, you could power the Parker more economically, or do the
same with this: http://www.rosboroughboats.com/sedan_cruiser.html
but the initial and operating costs would still be higher than most
Mac owners can or want to pay.
Besides, despite its poor performance, people *do* sail the Macs.
I'm still a young man and have no inclination to go pure stink-pot,
even aside from my limited finances.
Jeff, though I appreciate your advice, I'm thinking more in line with
Capt'n Neal's website boat buying advice regarding price.
Trouble is the Capt'n is a deep keel, blue water, bristol fashion
sailor. And I just want a fairly comfortable gunkholer.
Still, I'm afraid the Mac 26 series might be more boat than I can
afford, so when I'm ready I'll have to study the Captain's site again,
and ask the kind people here for advice.
Hey, lot's of different boat ideas here, and a perfect example of the
old saw "That's what makes the world go around."
Or is that sex?
Pretty damn neat anyway, and I sure do learn a lot about boats here.
Can't wait until I start sailing and buy my first splicing fid.
Sitting on a gently rocking boat in a subtropical harbor, now and then
a fish jumping in the air, its splashing re-entry the only contention
to the gentle breeze in rippling the water, as the sun makes its final
arc over the palm shaded horizon, I lackadaisically splice a halyard
with my fid. A cold beer by my side of course. Oh yeah!

--Vic

* Vic Smith wrote, On 6/12/2007 8:55 AM:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:44:33 -0400, Jeff wrote:
A PDQ 36 catamaran. More boat than you can even dream of.

The PDQ 36 is a quarter million dollar boat. Guess it's quite easy to
look down your nose at the lowly Mac 26.

I'm a bit offended that you think my opinions are shaded by the fact
that I have a larger boat. My current boat will probably be the only
larger, new boat I ever own - all of the others have been/will be
vintage and smaller.

If my wife would let me sell the house I might consider the PDQ, and
could then look down on the Mac myself.

Why would you "look down" on any boat? Almost all boats, the Mac
included, have their place. Contrary to Ed's delusions, I don't hate
the Mac. All I've done is point out that some of the outrageous
claims don't hold water.


Since she'd leave me, I could fit quite a few broads on that PDQ.
But that won't happen.
Some folks just want to get on the water in whatever they can afford.
I'm sure Ed Gordon's deep love of the Mac 26 is partly due to the
affordability factor, and that the price can even allow him the
opportunity of sailing or powering a *new* boat.

The Mac is only inexpensive if you want its particular feature set.

It isn't as roomy, as safe, or as fast as your PDQ, but it allows
him to get out there on the water.

There are many, many, MANY boats that would do the same. The issue is
which one do you want?

The bottom line for the Mac is that it has two distinguishing
features: It has a power boat inspired hull that permits it to make
use of the large engine, and it has maximized the interior space of a
street legal boat. However these features don't come without a cost.
Its virtually the slowest sailer you could buy. As a powerboat it
also has limitations - it isn't really that fast, and certainly
wouldn't be much fun in a real sea.

So if the two big features are truly big features for you, then maybe
the Mac is a good choice. I would strongly consider it if I wanted to
drive around the country and explore the inland lakes. But I think
you've already said that the large engine and the trailering are not
top priority for you, so I'm not sure why you're in love with the Mac.

Thanks for recommending the Marshall and Parker for gunkholing,
but they are impractical for me, and for most who would go with the
Mac 26. As you can see, the Marshall 22 starts at 68k:
http://www.marshallcat.com/M22Lines.htm
Looking at the option list, its safe to say the boat cost is about 3
times the cost of a Mac 26. It's a pretty boat, but out of my price
range. Looks like it isn't as roomy as the Mac, too.
And despite its looks and sailing qualities, some may find it as Cape
Cod precious.
My favorite option:
Cetol finish on teak - 4 coats 1,950.00
That's about what I pay for a car.

Well first of all, since I haven't been in the market for a trailer
sailer, and I didn't think you specified a price range, I wasn't
recommending the Marshall as "perfect" for you, only that its the boat
I would like when its time to downsize. (I also like the Nonsuch 22 &
26, but they aren't shallow draft.)

However, it has never occurred to me to get a new Marshall. These
boat are quite well made, and the $35K that you would pay for a Mac
would get you a rather high quality example. In fact of the 5
currently listed on YachtWorld, all are under 30K. These are
extremely solid hulls, simple rigs, strong diesels. The systems are
minimal - no gensets or A/C - so needed repairs would be minimal.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if a used Marshall actually has fewer
problems than a new Mac.

As for space, the styles are quite different. Certainly the cockpit
on the Marshall is far more comfortable than the Mac, but it doesn't
have the two double bunks. Also, I'd expect the Marshall to be faster.

As to the Parker:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18
I didn't even look at the price, seeing the recommended power is
Yamaha Twin F150
Yamaha Twin F200
Right there before you get the boat you've exceeded the cost of the
Mac 26. Not to mention all the gas guzzling. I guess I could just
buy the Yammies and run them in barrels in the back yard, but I don't
want to.
To be fair, you could power the Parker more economically, or do the
same with this: http://www.rosboroughboats.com/sedan_cruiser.html
but the initial and operating costs would still be higher than most
Mac owners can or want to pay.

A number of the Parkers are single engine. Here in New England many
of the harbor masters use Parkers with twins and are able to do 50+
knots in a chop. I'd think about one engine plus a small "get home."

And again, these are boats that are built to last a long time in heavy
service. I wouldn't be afraid to buy a vintage model as long as the
engine was good.

Besides, despite its poor performance, people *do* sail the Macs.
I'm still a young man and have no inclination to go pure stink-pot,
even aside from my limited finances.

Like I said, I was just pointing out boats that have got my eye of late.

Jeff, though I appreciate your advice, I'm thinking more in line with
Capt'n Neal's website boat buying advice regarding price.
Trouble is the Capt'n is a deep keel, blue water, bristol fashion
sailor.

You really drank the Kool-aid on that one!!!

But Neal is right that your first boat should be simple and cheap.
This will be a learning experience, both learning how to care for a
boat, and learning what kind of boat you want.

And I just want a fairly comfortable gunkholer.

Is there some reason why you need a new boat?

Still, I'm afraid the Mac 26 series might be more boat than I can
afford, so when I'm ready I'll have to study the Captain's site again,
and ask the kind people here for advice.
Hey, lot's of different boat ideas here, and a perfect example of the
old saw "That's what makes the world go around."
Or is that sex?
Pretty damn neat anyway, and I sure do learn a lot about boats here.
Can't wait until I start sailing and buy my first splicing fid.
Sitting on a gently rocking boat in a subtropical harbor, now and then
a fish jumping in the air, its splashing re-entry the only contention
to the gentle breeze in rippling the water, as the sun makes its final
arc over the palm shaded horizon, I lackadaisically splice a halyard
with my fid. A cold beer by my side of course. Oh yeah!

--Vic

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:34:19 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 6/12/2007 8:55 AM:

If my wife would let me sell the house I might consider the PDQ, and
could then look down on the Mac myself.

Why would you "look down" on any boat? Almost all boats, the Mac
included, have their place. Contrary to Ed's delusions, I don't hate
the Mac. All I've done is point out that some of the outrageous
claims don't hold water.

My apologies. No offense intended. "Look down" was a thoughtless
and wrong expression.
Let's just say that if I had a quarter million boat budget a Mac 26
"would not be considered" - for any purpose.
I would simply buy one sailboat that sailed well for sailing and a
boat like the Parker for gunkholing, and have plenty of cash to spare.
Or maybe a low draft cat, which could actually suit both goals.
My impression is that a knee-deep (=24") draft cat with suitable 3
week livability for 2 either doesn't exist or cost too much for my
budget, but I may be wrong about that, as I haven't looked hard.
I do think cats make the best cruisers and generally sail very well,
so I'm in no way a traditional sailing purist.
BTW, using that Mac which turtled as an argument against the Mac is
akin to claiming F/P Tobago 35 cruising cats flip easily because of
that recent Gulf incident. Apparently that cat also flipped in '01.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rs-3534-3.html
These rare owner-induced incidents put me off a boat no more than
knowing that a 42' mast shouldn't be sailed under high voltage lines
hanging 40' above the water.

The bottom line for the Mac is that it has two distinguishing
features: It has a power boat inspired hull that permits it to make
use of the large engine, and it has maximized the interior space of a
street legal boat. However these features don't come without a cost.
Its virtually the slowest sailer you could buy. As a powerboat it
also has limitations - it isn't really that fast, and certainly
wouldn't be much fun in a real sea.

So if the two big features are truly big features for you, then maybe
the Mac is a good choice. I would strongly consider it if I wanted to
drive around the country and explore the inland lakes. But I think
you've already said that the large engine and the trailering are not
top priority for you, so I'm not sure why you're in love with the Mac.

Nice analysis. Might be more accurate to say I'm in love with Mac
threads rather than Macs, since I'm always learning something and
getting my mind changed in some respect in those threads, and
comparable boats unknown to me are recommended.
In order, the shallow draft, cabin, turnkey condition and price are
what I like most about the available Macs. Light air and pointing
performance are big negatives. I've concluded I won't know what
compromises I'll make until I sail a number of different boats in the
very waters where I intend to sail.

However, it has never occurred to me to get a new Marshall. These
boat are quite well made, and the $35K that you would pay for a Mac
would get you a rather high quality example. In fact of the 5
currently listed on YachtWorld, all are under 30K. These are
extremely solid hulls, simple rigs, strong diesels. The systems are
minimal - no gensets or A/C - so needed repairs would be minimal.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if a used Marshall actually has fewer
problems than a new Mac.

As for space, the styles are quite different. Certainly the cockpit
on the Marshall is far more comfortable than the Mac, but it doesn't
have the two double bunks. Also, I'd expect the Marshall to be faster.

I looked and see your point here. They are very nice looking boats,
all around and inside. Here's one "review."
http://www.sailnet.com/boatchk/showp...p?product=1138
Though I won't go ocean sailing, I can't exclude the possibility of
getting caught in 6-8' waves in the Gulf. I'm not sure the Marshall
22 would be safer in that than the Mac 26.

Jeff, though I appreciate your advice, I'm thinking more in line with
Capt'n Neal's website boat buying advice regarding price.
Trouble is the Capt'n is a deep keel, blue water, bristol fashion
sailor.

You really drank the Kool-aid on that one!!!

Coffee. Lots of it.

But Neal is right that your first boat should be simple and cheap.
This will be a learning experience, both learning how to care for a
boat, and learning what kind of boat you want.

And I just want a fairly comfortable gunkholer.

Is there some reason why you need a new boat?

No, but I don't buy fixer-uppers. I like turnkey shipshape.
I can handle buying old cars because I concentrate on certain models I
know well. I *never* encounter unanticipated expenses.
I know diddly about boat construction and hidden problems, except that
many owners find out about them too late. If I buy used, I'll go in
with my eyes open.

--Vic

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:18:06 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Though I won't go ocean sailing, I can't exclude the possibility of
getting caught in 6-8' waves in the Gulf. I'm not sure the Marshall
22 would be safer in that than the Mac 26.

A windy day sailing in the Gulf is comparable to being on the ocean.
The only real difference is that the swells are smaller but it is not
the swells that bother you.

There are *no* boats in the 20 ft range suitable for 6 to 8 ft wind
waves in my opinion. The boat will probably survive if it doesn't
capsize but the people will be in rough shape after a short time.
Even 40 footers get tiresome upwind in 6 to 8 ft waves unless they
are very heavily built.