Duncan McC (NZ) wrote in
. nz:

In article ,
egordon873 @aol.com says...
http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/p11.htm

Myth#11 Mac26 is not for ocean sailing. Go ahead, click the link and
see just how good and seaworthy a professional captain thinks the Mac
really is. Dare you. Jeff expecially.

Wow gee whiz.

I didn't read all the guff - what a god awful website.

I did find this though...

http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html


You can't blame the boat for that terrible tragedy. It said the guy was
drunk and it said this too: "The boat that capsized on the Fourth of
July and killed two children was overloaded and was being used
incorrectly, according to the boat's manufacturer."

"The 26-foot MacGregor, which is a cross between a sailboat and a power
boat, is designed to hold up to six people, according to Roger
MacGregor, the boat company's owner. The boat carried 11 people the
night of July 4."

"The boat's hybrid design uses a water tank on the bottom to provide
stability. The tank should be filled when there are more than four
people on board, MacGregor said. The tank on the boat driven July 4 by
George Dean Martin was empty, according to the prosecutor in the case."

The guy was dumb and drunk. Don't blame the Mac!!!


My own comments on a Mac 26X - which I tried out (a new one) two years
ago.

Is it a sailing boat or a speedboat? My biggest gripe, for a brand
new boat, is that it is beaten on the water (sailing) by boats that
are 25 years old (eg Farr 7.5, Noelex 25). (I bought a Farr 7.5 in
the end, BTW). I was pleasantly surprised by it's pointing ability,
but again much older boats out point it (as probably expected given
it's 'cross nature' design).

And is it a speedboat? No, no way. It's good to have the motor to get
out of trouble (before the weather hits) quickly. But *in* the
heavier stuff, presumably you have the ballast in place, so a reduced
speed, and would be going much slower than that anyway given it's hull
design in rough sea.

The price is good, and the cabin is spacious in feel. I like that.

The rigging looks and feels *way* too light for my liking - however I
note of few reports of breakages - so I supose that's good. The whole
rudder assembly likewise seems too light in construction.

Overall I think the Mac retains it's - it's neither this, and it's
neither that - label, sorry.

It's what you make of it. If you want it to be a saiboat it's a pretty
fast and safe sailboat. If you want a motorboat it's a pretty fast and
safe motor boat. It's the best of both worlds. Everybody who doesn't
know anything complains about the rudders. They say they are too lightly
built. They are too dumb to remember they are slender because they also
are a power boat rudders that have to be able to go throught the water
way faster than a heavy keelboat rudder has to. They are tuffer than you
think since they hold up going twenty or more mph. The rigging is light
so it's easier to put the mast up and down. It's a trailerable boat
remember. You can't make the mast and wiring too big or it'll be too
heavy to put it up. It's designed to be light and strong and is plenty
strong for the sails you get with it.



--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 11:49 AM:

I did find this though...

http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html


You can't blame the boat for that terrible tragedy. It said the guy was
drunk and it said this too: "The boat that capsized on the Fourth of
July and killed two children was overloaded and was being used
incorrectly, according to the boat's manufacturer."

"The 26-foot MacGregor, which is a cross between a sailboat and a power
boat, is designed to hold up to six people, according to Roger
MacGregor, the boat company's owner. The boat carried 11 people the
night of July 4."

"The boat's hybrid design uses a water tank on the bottom to provide
stability. The tank should be filled when there are more than four
people on board, MacGregor said. The tank on the boat driven July 4 by
George Dean Martin was empty, according to the prosecutor in the case."

The guy was dumb and drunk. Don't blame the Mac!!!

Sure we can blame the Mac. Half the boaters out there were probably
drunk and yet only one capsized. And he didn't just capsize it, it
rolled within seconds of leaving the anchorage because he goosed the
throttle by mistake.

While there were 11 people on board, 3 were small children and down
below, so the boat was not grossly overloaded by the standards of
ordinary boats.

My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices,
yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few
other boats.

Jeff wrote in
:

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 11:49 AM:

I did find this though...

http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html


You can't blame the boat for that terrible tragedy. It said the guy
was drunk and it said this too: "The boat that capsized on the Fourth
of July and killed two children was overloaded and was being used
incorrectly, according to the boat's manufacturer."

"The 26-foot MacGregor, which is a cross between a sailboat and a
power boat, is designed to hold up to six people, according to Roger
MacGregor, the boat company's owner. The boat carried 11 people the
night of July 4."

"The boat's hybrid design uses a water tank on the bottom to provide
stability. The tank should be filled when there are more than four
people on board, MacGregor said. The tank on the boat driven July 4
by George Dean Martin was empty, according to the prosecutor in the
case."

The guy was dumb and drunk. Don't blame the Mac!!!

Sure we can blame the Mac. Half the boaters out there were probably
drunk and yet only one capsized. And he didn't just capsize it, it
rolled within seconds of leaving the anchorage because he goosed the
throttle by mistake.

While there were 11 people on board, 3 were small children and down
below, so the boat was not grossly overloaded by the standards of
ordinary boats.

My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices,
yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few
other boats.



Well, then maybe they should sit down and read the owner's manual. What
do you expect? a warning sticker plastered on every part of the boat? No
matter how hard you try to think of how people can screw up people can
always screw up worse than you think they can. If you had a warning that
said don't get drunk and operate this boat, don't put more than six
people in it, and so forth you'd just get ignored. If you don't count
the little kids you end up with eight adults. That's still two too many.

Would you blame an airplane that crashed because it said it was for four
passengers and they crammed eight people in it? Nope. That would be
pilot error. So don't blame the Mac. If you built a boat that was idiot
proof it'd be a square room with rubber walls firmly stuck to the
ground.

--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 7:06 PM:
Jeff wrote in
....
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices,
yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few
other boats.



Well, then maybe they should sit down and read the owner's manual. What
do you expect? a warning sticker plastered on every part of the boat? No
matter how hard you try to think of how people can screw up people can
always screw up worse than you think they can. If you had a warning that
said don't get drunk and operate this boat, don't put more than six
people in it, and so forth you'd just get ignored. If you don't count
the little kids you end up with eight adults. That's still two too many.

You miss the important issue here. There are very few other boats
that would have capsized in this situation. If this had been a keel
boat, or if the ballast tank were filled, or if it didn't have a 50hp
engine, there would not have been a problem.



Would you blame an airplane that crashed because it said it was for four
passengers and they crammed eight people in it?

The people were not "crammed" onto the Mac. I'm sure that they felt
there was plenty of room. A Rhodes 19 would be "crammed," but not a
16 footer.

Nope. That would be
pilot error. So don't blame the Mac. If you built a boat that was idiot
proof it'd be a square room with rubber walls firmly stuck to the
ground.

Sorry. I prefer boats that do not suddenly roll over when there is no
wind or waves.

In article ,
says...
* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/10/2007 11:49 AM:

I did find this though...

http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html


You can't blame the boat for that terrible tragedy. It said the guy was
drunk and it said this too: "The boat that capsized on the Fourth of
July and killed two children was overloaded and was being used
incorrectly, according to the boat's manufacturer."

"The 26-foot MacGregor, which is a cross between a sailboat and a power
boat, is designed to hold up to six people, according to Roger
MacGregor, the boat company's owner. The boat carried 11 people the
night of July 4."

"The boat's hybrid design uses a water tank on the bottom to provide
stability. The tank should be filled when there are more than four
people on board, MacGregor said. The tank on the boat driven July 4 by
George Dean Martin was empty, according to the prosecutor in the case."

The guy was dumb and drunk. Don't blame the Mac!!!

Sure we can blame the Mac. Half the boaters out there were probably
drunk and yet only one capsized. And he didn't just capsize it, it
rolled within seconds of leaving the anchorage because he goosed the
throttle by mistake.

While there were 11 people on board, 3 were small children and down
below, so the boat was not grossly overloaded by the standards of
ordinary boats.

My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices,
yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few
other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate the
boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).

--
Duncan

* Duncan McC (NZ) wrote, On 6/10/2007 10:02 PM:
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices,
yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few
other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate the
boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).


Here is the decal from the 26M. I don't know if the 26X had the same
warning, but IIRC the boat that rolled didn't have a decal.

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/sa...l_apr_2006.pdf

The M version was redesigned to include several hundred pounds of
ballast plus foam in the mast which means that it should be
self-righting in most situations. In the X version, they say that if
the boat heels 50 degrees without water ballast it will quite possibly
capsize and not self-right.

Here is the full list of safety recommendations/warnings on the site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Some of the warnings would apply to any boat, but many are unique for
a 26 foot sailboat sold as a "cruiser." In particular, without the
water ballast crew size is limited to 4 people/640 pounds. Having
sailed many years in daysailers 15-19 feet, the concept of a 26 foot
cruising boat with a cabin that is unsafe with 5 people on board is
quite unexpected.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Duncan McC (NZ) wrote, On 6/10/2007 10:02 PM:
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices,
yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few
other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate the
boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).


Here is the decal from the 26M. I don't know if the 26X had the same
warning, but IIRC the boat that rolled didn't have a decal.

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/sa...l_apr_2006.pdf

The M version was redesigned to include several hundred pounds of
ballast plus foam in the mast which means that it should be
self-righting in most situations. In the X version, they say that if
the boat heels 50 degrees without water ballast it will quite possibly
capsize and not self-right.

Here is the full list of safety recommendations/warnings on the site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Some of the warnings would apply to any boat, but many are unique for
a 26 foot sailboat sold as a "cruiser." In particular, without the
water ballast crew size is limited to 4 people/640 pounds. Having
sailed many years in daysailers 15-19 feet, the concept of a 26 foot
cruising boat with a cabin that is unsafe with 5 people on board is
quite unexpected.

That is a bit of an eye-opener!
It is hard to believe that a boat designed with these use restrictions is
offered to its target market, even for use in calm coastal waters. I wonder
how many dealers ensure that buyers know exactly what they are getting?
ChrisR

"chrisR" wrote in message
...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Duncan McC (NZ) wrote, On 6/10/2007 10:02 PM:
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to novices,
yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on very few
other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate the
boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).


Here is the decal from the 26M. I don't know if the 26X had the same
warning, but IIRC the boat that rolled didn't have a decal.

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/sa...l_apr_2006.pdf

The M version was redesigned to include several hundred pounds of
ballast plus foam in the mast which means that it should be
self-righting in most situations. In the X version, they say that if
the boat heels 50 degrees without water ballast it will quite possibly
capsize and not self-right.

Here is the full list of safety recommendations/warnings on the site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Some of the warnings would apply to any boat, but many are unique for
a 26 foot sailboat sold as a "cruiser." In particular, without the
water ballast crew size is limited to 4 people/640 pounds. Having
sailed many years in daysailers 15-19 feet, the concept of a 26 foot
cruising boat with a cabin that is unsafe with 5 people on board is
quite unexpected.

That is a bit of an eye-opener!
It is hard to believe that a boat designed with these use restrictions is
offered to its target market, even for use in calm coastal waters. I
wonder
how many dealers ensure that buyers know exactly what they are getting?
ChrisR

I used to know the owner of one of the largest dealers of them in Northern
California. He told me two things. They sell like crazy, and they're crap
boats. No, they don't fully inform the prospective owners certainly.... they
want to make the sale.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"chrisR" wrote in :


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
* Duncan McC (NZ) wrote, On 6/10/2007 10:02 PM:
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to
novices, yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on
very few other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate
the boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).


Here is the decal from the 26M. I don't know if the 26X had the same
warning, but IIRC the boat that rolled didn't have a decal.

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/sa...l_apr_2006.pdf

The M version was redesigned to include several hundred pounds of
ballast plus foam in the mast which means that it should be
self-righting in most situations. In the X version, they say that if
the boat heels 50 degrees without water ballast it will quite
possibly capsize and not self-right.

Here is the full list of safety recommendations/warnings on the site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Some of the warnings would apply to any boat, but many are unique for
a 26 foot sailboat sold as a "cruiser." In particular, without the
water ballast crew size is limited to 4 people/640 pounds. Having
sailed many years in daysailers 15-19 feet, the concept of a 26 foot
cruising boat with a cabin that is unsafe with 5 people on board is
quite unexpected.

That is a bit of an eye-opener!
It is hard to believe that a boat designed with these use restrictions
is offered to its target market, even for use in calm coastal waters.
I wonder how many dealers ensure that buyers know exactly what they
are getting? ChrisR



Is that a dealer's job? I don't think so. The dealers job is to deliver
a ready-to-go boat with all the paperwork. It's up to the buyer to
educate himself. Sure the dealer should answer all questions honestly
but how many people ask intelligent questions these days? If I were a
dealer I'd just caution the buyer to be sure to familiarize himself with
the owner's manual and pay attention to the warnings in it and on
stickers on the boat.

How many car dealers give lessons and warnings when selling a high
performance Mustang? That would probably be insulting to most customers.


--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm

Jeff wrote in
:

* Duncan McC (NZ) wrote, On 6/10/2007 10:02 PM:
My issue with this situation is that the boat is marketed to
novices, yet requires extra attention to issues that are found on
very few other boats.

Absolutely - so really the instructions should be *always* operate
the boat with the ballast in place (when on the water).


Here is the decal from the 26M. I don't know if the 26X had the same
warning, but IIRC the boat that rolled didn't have a decal.

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/sa...l_apr_2006.pdf

The M version was redesigned to include several hundred pounds of
ballast plus foam in the mast which means that it should be
self-righting in most situations. In the X version, they say that if
the boat heels 50 degrees without water ballast it will quite possibly
capsize and not self-right.

Here is the full list of safety recommendations/warnings on the site:

http://www.macgregor26.com/safety/safety.htm

Some of the warnings would apply to any boat, but many are unique for
a 26 foot sailboat sold as a "cruiser." In particular, without the
water ballast crew size is limited to 4 people/640 pounds. Having
sailed many years in daysailers 15-19 feet, the concept of a 26 foot
cruising boat with a cabin that is unsafe with 5 people on board is
quite unexpected.




You've got to get back to basics. The Mac26X or M are trailerable boats.
The ballast is water so it can be drained for trailering. That's all you
have to remember. Fill the ballast tank right after you launch and drain
it right after you pull. That's not so hard is it?

Once you got the basics down you just have to remember that even with
the ballast tank full it's still a trailer boat that can't be treated
like a heavy ballast keel boat. It's a compromise and a damned good one
but you gotta keep it in mind all the time. Get drunk and forget and you
might pay for your stupidity.

I like to look at it this way. Macs are for the more intelligent and
careful sailors. Heavy keel boats perform poorer but are harder to
capsize so you can get drunk and sloppy and get away with it more often.
A Mac is like riding a thorobred. Hang on and enjoy the greater speed
and versatility but don't get complacent.


--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.freewebs.com/egordon873/index.htm