Skip Gundlach wrote:

..... despite all the hoo-ha of the
advertising, the info presented is wrong more often than it's right. Case
in point is the Morgan I drove several hours to see, fighting car troubles
all the way, which had stated that the walk-through was 6-4. I made the
irrational assumption that if the walk-through was that tall, likely the
rest of it was similar or better.

Imagine my irritation, since that was the *only* boat in that market, and I
could have been 5 hours closer to home by not coming there, as it was the
last boat on that trip, when the walk-through proved to be 6-1 at the tall
end and 6-0 at the short end.

Should have handed the broker who gave you the bad info a bill for your time. I
threatened to do this with several of the less-good brokers we tried to deal
with when hunting for our last boat.


And just in case you haven't been paying attention, that's the second boat
on which we've offered. The first was rejected, this was accepted...

Keep the faith. My wife and I made made offers on 6 and had 2 accepted, only to
fall through, before we landed 'the one.'



Yes, we're going to buy a boat...

I used to say, "We *are* going to buy a boat, but we refuse to be sold a boat."
A lot of brokers could not tell the difference.

We also saw a lot of ironic circumstances, such as the boat we really liked &
would have suited our needs; only to have the owner refuse to consider the boats
actual condition & equipment instead of what he imagined it to be... six months
later he sold the boat for less than our offer which he'd refused, after paying
to have some of the stuff fixed that we'd balked at. Three of the boats we made
offers on are still for sale. But we waded through a LOT of BS and
misrepresentation and unprofessional conduct by brokers, oh yes. It's a wonder
that anybody actually buys boats at all.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind.
Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or
a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry
less equipment. Some seem stripped actually.
The privately owned boats better equipped?
I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to
larger boats and move equipment.
This will be first boat so this will be a large factor.
Any input welcome!
Thanks,
Kathy M.
"DSK" wrote in message
...


Skip Gundlach wrote:

..... despite all the hoo-ha of the
advertising, the info presented is wrong more often than it's right.
Case
in point is the Morgan I drove several hours to see, fighting car
troubles
all the way, which had stated that the walk-through was 6-4. I made the
irrational assumption that if the walk-through was that tall, likely the
rest of it was similar or better.

Imagine my irritation, since that was the *only* boat in that market,
and I
could have been 5 hours closer to home by not coming there, as it was
the
last boat on that trip, when the walk-through proved to be 6-1 at the
tall
end and 6-0 at the short end.

Should have handed the broker who gave you the bad info a bill for your
time. I
threatened to do this with several of the less-good brokers we tried to
deal
with when hunting for our last boat.


And just in case you haven't been paying attention, that's the second
boat
on which we've offered. The first was rejected, this was accepted...

Keep the faith. My wife and I made made offers on 6 and had 2 accepted,
only to
fall through, before we landed 'the one.'



Yes, we're going to buy a boat...

I used to say, "We *are* going to buy a boat, but we refuse to be sold a
boat."
A lot of brokers could not tell the difference.

We also saw a lot of ironic circumstances, such as the boat we really
liked &
would have suited our needs; only to have the owner refuse to consider the
boats
actual condition & equipment instead of what he imagined it to be... six
months
later he sold the boat for less than our offer which he'd refused, after
paying
to have some of the stuff fixed that we'd balked at. Three of the boats we
made
offers on are still for sale. But we waded through a LOT of BS and
misrepresentation and unprofessional conduct by brokers, oh yes. It's a
wonder
that anybody actually buys boats at all.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Kathy Mumma wrote:

We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind.
Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or
a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry
less equipment. Some seem stripped actually.
The privately owned boats better equipped?
I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to
larger boats and move equipment.
This will be first boat so this will be a large factor.
Any input welcome!
Thanks,
Kathy M.

Generally, we find that brokered boats are cleaner, with less junk lying
around. (There are exceptions; Xan was one.) Most of the extra stuff on
some boats is pretty much going to be replaced or tossed. It's sorta
cool at first to have some of the personal stuff onboard, but it
eventually finds its way to the trash bin. Even a lot of electronics and
other "useful" gear is often out of date or near its useful life. For
instance, I never found LORAN to be particularly useful even if the
previous owner (PO) used it regularly. Xan's old crystal-controlled VHF
was immediately replaced along with the depth and speed equipment which
seemed okay, but was pretty much DOA. On some boats, the various fabrics
on cushions and windows would have been the first to be replaced.

'Course, every boat, PO, and buyer is different. Often, an owner sells
privately because a broker recommended a lower value than they think
their baby is worth. Often a truly great deal is available via broker,
particularly if your first bid is appropriate for the actual market for
that boat.

Key to everything is your knowing about what a particular boat is
actually worth on the market. That requires a bit of research on your
part, but that is far easier these days than it was a decade ago.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Thanks for reply. Seems to make a lot of sense, especially when we are just
learning. We are hoping to take advantage on winter prices for boat AND gear
anyway. Last years models in working condition would be much better than
equipment included which is DOA.
Kathy M.
"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
Kathy Mumma wrote:

We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your
post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind.
Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately;
or
a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats
carry
less equipment. Some seem stripped actually.
The privately owned boats better equipped?
I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to
larger boats and move equipment.
This will be first boat so this will be a large factor.
Any input welcome!
Thanks,
Kathy M.

Generally, we find that brokered boats are cleaner, with less junk lying
around. (There are exceptions; Xan was one.) Most of the extra stuff on
some boats is pretty much going to be replaced or tossed. It's sorta
cool at first to have some of the personal stuff onboard, but it
eventually finds its way to the trash bin. Even a lot of electronics and
other "useful" gear is often out of date or near its useful life. For
instance, I never found LORAN to be particularly useful even if the
previous owner (PO) used it regularly. Xan's old crystal-controlled VHF
was immediately replaced along with the depth and speed equipment which
seemed okay, but was pretty much DOA. On some boats, the various fabrics
on cushions and windows would have been the first to be replaced.

'Course, every boat, PO, and buyer is different. Often, an owner sells
privately because a broker recommended a lower value than they think
their baby is worth. Often a truly great deal is available via broker,
particularly if your first bid is appropriate for the actual market for
that boat.

Key to everything is your knowing about what a particular boat is
actually worth on the market. That requires a bit of research on your
part, but that is far easier these days than it was a decade ago.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Thanks for reply. Seems to make a lot of sense, especially when we are just
learning. We are hoping to take advantage on winter prices for boat AND gear
anyway. Last years models in working condition would be much better than
equipment included which is DOA.
Kathy M.
"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
Kathy Mumma wrote:

We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your
post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind.
Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately;
or
a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats
carry
less equipment. Some seem stripped actually.
The privately owned boats better equipped?
I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to
larger boats and move equipment.
This will be first boat so this will be a large factor.
Any input welcome!
Thanks,
Kathy M.

Generally, we find that brokered boats are cleaner, with less junk lying
around. (There are exceptions; Xan was one.) Most of the extra stuff on
some boats is pretty much going to be replaced or tossed. It's sorta
cool at first to have some of the personal stuff onboard, but it
eventually finds its way to the trash bin. Even a lot of electronics and
other "useful" gear is often out of date or near its useful life. For
instance, I never found LORAN to be particularly useful even if the
previous owner (PO) used it regularly. Xan's old crystal-controlled VHF
was immediately replaced along with the depth and speed equipment which
seemed okay, but was pretty much DOA. On some boats, the various fabrics
on cushions and windows would have been the first to be replaced.

'Course, every boat, PO, and buyer is different. Often, an owner sells
privately because a broker recommended a lower value than they think
their baby is worth. Often a truly great deal is available via broker,
particularly if your first bid is appropriate for the actual market for
that boat.

Key to everything is your knowing about what a particular boat is
actually worth on the market. That requires a bit of research on your
part, but that is far easier these days than it was a decade ago.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Kathy Mumma wrote:

We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind.
Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or
a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry
less equipment. Some seem stripped actually.
The privately owned boats better equipped?
I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to
larger boats and move equipment.
This will be first boat so this will be a large factor.
Any input welcome!
Thanks,
Kathy M.

Generally, we find that brokered boats are cleaner, with less junk lying
around. (There are exceptions; Xan was one.) Most of the extra stuff on
some boats is pretty much going to be replaced or tossed. It's sorta
cool at first to have some of the personal stuff onboard, but it
eventually finds its way to the trash bin. Even a lot of electronics and
other "useful" gear is often out of date or near its useful life. For
instance, I never found LORAN to be particularly useful even if the
previous owner (PO) used it regularly. Xan's old crystal-controlled VHF
was immediately replaced along with the depth and speed equipment which
seemed okay, but was pretty much DOA. On some boats, the various fabrics
on cushions and windows would have been the first to be replaced.

'Course, every boat, PO, and buyer is different. Often, an owner sells
privately because a broker recommended a lower value than they think
their baby is worth. Often a truly great deal is available via broker,
particularly if your first bid is appropriate for the actual market for
that boat.

Key to everything is your knowing about what a particular boat is
actually worth on the market. That requires a bit of research on your
part, but that is far easier these days than it was a decade ago.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

x-no-archive:yes



"Kathy Mumma" wrote:

We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind.
Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or
a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry

A lot of times an owner will try to sell privately, be unsuccessful,
and then list it with a broker with the broker's commission added to
the sale price. So if you were sure that you wanted a particular type
of boat and could find one that was not yet listed with a broker (for
instance I keep a list of CSYs for sale and the owners often list them
with our group before they go to a broker), then it might be cheaper
to buy one that way.

You can look at BoatTrader where owners can list their own boats.
YachtWorld listings are of course all with brokers.

less equipment. Some seem stripped actually.
The privately owned boats better equipped?

I don't think the amount of equipment is the result of being listed
with a broker.

I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to
larger boats and move equipment.
This will be first boat so this will be a large factor.

We were lucky in that we got a boat which had very little on it in the
way of equipment. A LORAN which we've never used, an old VHF radio,
an AM/FM radio with speakers in the cockpit, and that was about it.
Not even a GPS. So we could get the equipment that we wanted that was
up to date as of when we bought it. We missed getting a boat that we
chartered and loved which had all the toys, but they were 5 years or
so old. (We missed it because we didn't know that it was on the
market.)

We had bad luck with several brokers - we spent some time in the Miami
Ft Lauderdale area with one broker looking at boats and asked him to
let us know if any of the kind we wanted became available, and one
did, and he didn't let us know. OTOH, one of the brokers up here
called us as soon as one came on the market up here, and we bought
that boat.

One thing about working with a broker - if the seller is suffering
second thoughts, he's less likely to yank the boat if he has to pay
the broker's commission anyway. We looked at several boats which the
seller wasn't really committed to selling. And I know of one boat
being sold privately where two separate parties made a full price
offer and the owners then raised the price. That boat also had a
bunch of equipment on it which didn't go with the sale.



grandma Rosalie

Thanks for all the input.
Am gleaning a LOT of great information from the group.
Kathy M.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
x-no-archive:yes



"Kathy Mumma" wrote:

We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your
post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind.
Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately;
or
a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats
carry

A lot of times an owner will try to sell privately, be unsuccessful,
and then list it with a broker with the broker's commission added to
the sale price. So if you were sure that you wanted a particular type
of boat and could find one that was not yet listed with a broker (for
instance I keep a list of CSYs for sale and the owners often list them
with our group before they go to a broker), then it might be cheaper
to buy one that way.

You can look at BoatTrader where owners can list their own boats.
YachtWorld listings are of course all with brokers.

less equipment. Some seem stripped actually.
The privately owned boats better equipped?

I don't think the amount of equipment is the result of being listed
with a broker.

I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to
larger boats and move equipment.
This will be first boat so this will be a large factor.

We were lucky in that we got a boat which had very little on it in the
way of equipment. A LORAN which we've never used, an old VHF radio,
an AM/FM radio with speakers in the cockpit, and that was about it.
Not even a GPS. So we could get the equipment that we wanted that was
up to date as of when we bought it. We missed getting a boat that we
chartered and loved which had all the toys, but they were 5 years or
so old. (We missed it because we didn't know that it was on the
market.)

We had bad luck with several brokers - we spent some time in the Miami
Ft Lauderdale area with one broker looking at boats and asked him to
let us know if any of the kind we wanted became available, and one
did, and he didn't let us know. OTOH, one of the brokers up here
called us as soon as one came on the market up here, and we bought
that boat.

One thing about working with a broker - if the seller is suffering
second thoughts, he's less likely to yank the boat if he has to pay
the broker's commission anyway. We looked at several boats which the
seller wasn't really committed to selling. And I know of one boat
being sold privately where two separate parties made a full price
offer and the owners then raised the price. That boat also had a
bunch of equipment on it which didn't go with the sale.



grandma Rosalie

Thanks for all the input.
Am gleaning a LOT of great information from the group.
Kathy M.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
x-no-archive:yes



"Kathy Mumma" wrote:

We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your
post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind.
Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately;
or
a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats
carry

A lot of times an owner will try to sell privately, be unsuccessful,
and then list it with a broker with the broker's commission added to
the sale price. So if you were sure that you wanted a particular type
of boat and could find one that was not yet listed with a broker (for
instance I keep a list of CSYs for sale and the owners often list them
with our group before they go to a broker), then it might be cheaper
to buy one that way.

You can look at BoatTrader where owners can list their own boats.
YachtWorld listings are of course all with brokers.

less equipment. Some seem stripped actually.
The privately owned boats better equipped?

I don't think the amount of equipment is the result of being listed
with a broker.

I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to
larger boats and move equipment.
This will be first boat so this will be a large factor.

We were lucky in that we got a boat which had very little on it in the
way of equipment. A LORAN which we've never used, an old VHF radio,
an AM/FM radio with speakers in the cockpit, and that was about it.
Not even a GPS. So we could get the equipment that we wanted that was
up to date as of when we bought it. We missed getting a boat that we
chartered and loved which had all the toys, but they were 5 years or
so old. (We missed it because we didn't know that it was on the
market.)

We had bad luck with several brokers - we spent some time in the Miami
Ft Lauderdale area with one broker looking at boats and asked him to
let us know if any of the kind we wanted became available, and one
did, and he didn't let us know. OTOH, one of the brokers up here
called us as soon as one came on the market up here, and we bought
that boat.

One thing about working with a broker - if the seller is suffering
second thoughts, he's less likely to yank the boat if he has to pay
the broker's commission anyway. We looked at several boats which the
seller wasn't really committed to selling. And I know of one boat
being sold privately where two separate parties made a full price
offer and the owners then raised the price. That boat also had a
bunch of equipment on it which didn't go with the sale.



grandma Rosalie

x-no-archive:yes



"Kathy Mumma" wrote:

We are just researching now and planning to buy next winter. But your post
brings up a question I have, if you don't mind.
Does the group think it is better/cheaper to buy from an owner privately; or
a broker? It seems the broker prices are more inflated and the boats carry

A lot of times an owner will try to sell privately, be unsuccessful,
and then list it with a broker with the broker's commission added to
the sale price. So if you were sure that you wanted a particular type
of boat and could find one that was not yet listed with a broker (for
instance I keep a list of CSYs for sale and the owners often list them
with our group before they go to a broker), then it might be cheaper
to buy one that way.

You can look at BoatTrader where owners can list their own boats.
YachtWorld listings are of course all with brokers.

less equipment. Some seem stripped actually.
The privately owned boats better equipped?

I don't think the amount of equipment is the result of being listed
with a broker.

I realize this is subjective of course. I imagine many will buy "up" to
larger boats and move equipment.
This will be first boat so this will be a large factor.

We were lucky in that we got a boat which had very little on it in the
way of equipment. A LORAN which we've never used, an old VHF radio,
an AM/FM radio with speakers in the cockpit, and that was about it.
Not even a GPS. So we could get the equipment that we wanted that was
up to date as of when we bought it. We missed getting a boat that we
chartered and loved which had all the toys, but they were 5 years or
so old. (We missed it because we didn't know that it was on the
market.)

We had bad luck with several brokers - we spent some time in the Miami
Ft Lauderdale area with one broker looking at boats and asked him to
let us know if any of the kind we wanted became available, and one
did, and he didn't let us know. OTOH, one of the brokers up here
called us as soon as one came on the market up here, and we bought
that boat.

One thing about working with a broker - if the seller is suffering
second thoughts, he's less likely to yank the boat if he has to pay
the broker's commission anyway. We looked at several boats which the
seller wasn't really committed to selling. And I know of one boat
being sold privately where two separate parties made a full price
offer and the owners then raised the price. That boat also had a
bunch of equipment on it which didn't go with the sale.



grandma Rosalie