What did these sailors do wrong?
 

Larry wrote:



IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO
YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say
LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the
course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no
matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then,
we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT
YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and
boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are
too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that
worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for.

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE
SEAMEN!


Larry

Hi Larry,

I know this is kind of a late reply, but I had to
let myself cool down for a few days to think about
what I really wanted to say here.

When I was 34 I was playing competitive
racquetball at the YMCA twice a week with a bunch
of guys I worked with. To give you an idea of the
level of play, our group included the 1st _and_
2nd place winners of the Austin TX open
racquetball tournament, and a couple of other
players who placed in the top ten. On any given
day, there were five or six of us who could give
the top two a run for their money.

There was one fellow who was 70 years old that
year who use to come and play with us regularly,
and he was quite competitive. He beat me quite a
few times, and he also would beat the top two
players sometimes. My point is that age is a poor
indicator of strength or fitness. I've seen
plenty of 18 year olds that would have had a heart
attack if they'd try to keep up with this guy, and
he would have beat them at arm wrestling also.

BTW, although that big Amel 54' may take a lot of
muscle to handle the sheets, there are plenty of
boats that do not. Hell, there are even boats
with (gasp) power winches, and power capstans.

Regarding the cost of rescues, and the risk to
rescue crews: Those resources are fixed cost, and
we taxpayers pay for them whether they are used or
not. If there are no real rescues, the crews have
to fly practice ones to stay proficient. I have
an aquaintance who is a USCG rescue swimmer, and
they _love_ to go out on real rescues. It breaks
up the boredom, and makes them feel like they are
doing something worthwhile.

What they do looks dangerous, but they are trained
and equipped for it. The USCG doesn't commit to a
rescue if they believe that the conditions are
dangerous for their crews and equipment. Of
course, what looks dangerous to us is routine for
them.

With your avowed distrust of the US government,
why would you want to give them more power to run
our lives than they've already got?

I say government should stay out of peoples lives
unless there is a compelling reason not to. I'm
really opposed to the idea that government should
become our mommies and save us from ourselves.

rant mode off

Sorry... I feel much better now ;-)

Don W.

What did these sailors do wrong?
 

Don W wrote in news:YZK0i.1163
:

I say government should stay out of peoples lives
unless there is a compelling reason not to. I'm
really opposed to the idea that government should
become our mommies and save us from ourselves.



Everyone has presented exceptional examples of just wonderful 70-year-
old, physically fit sailors they know, some famous, some not. This is
great. If I were advocating licensing of airplane pilots, and there were
no licensing or testing or physical exams of airplane pilots, everyone
would be pointing out Chuck Yeagar and a host of airplane pilot heros,
for the same reasons....they don't need to be examined, obviously.

Those are NOT the people walking the docks to play captain where I have
been, or whom I have met. THESE are the people who need to be told when
enough is enough, just like airplane pilots are told, now. These people
walking the docks are sure they can handle any situation. Just ask them
or point out to them that they are walking a little slower than they were
10 years ago, or have trouble getting aboard, or are a little out of
breath from the walk from the parking lot, and you'll be told how
wonderful shape they are in. In their minds, just like everyone on this
newsgroup who have gotten all excited and mad at me, they are 27 and
strong as an ox....just with white hair...well, some white hair.

But, with increasing frequency lately, we find them offshore, in heavy
weather and in trouble...beaten and exhausted to the point a rescue
swimmer must be deployed to get them into the helo harness...endangering
the lives of the Coasties and everyone else who comes near the abandoned
vessel left behind.

Their inflated egos have gotten them in trouble and endangered others.
I'm not concerned with themselves. It's the "others" that continues to
bother me.

At what point does government impose the same requirements on boaters it
requires, rightfully so, of all other modes of transportation to protect
the "others", passengers, other boaters, commercial traffic and those
boys in the helos?

Larry
--
I think we should do away with all testing and licensing of airline
pilots. Anyone who can fly a Hatteras 60 ought to be able to get a job
as a Delta 777 captain without taking a test or physical, right?!

What did these sailors do wrong?
 

....
At what point does government impose the same requirements on boaters it
requires, rightfully so, of all other modes of transportation to protect
the "others", passengers, other boaters, commercial traffic and those
boys in the helos?
....

When the cost is worth the benefit. Also, governments don't license
all modes of transportation. Bicycles are popular and dangerous and
rarely licensed. Ultra-light planes, roller skates, scooters, swim
fins, pogo sticks, skis, Segways, motorized shopping carts, high
powered propeller beanies, horses, donkeys, really big prehistoric
carnivorous ducks and many, many more modes of transport may be
operated unlicensed in most countries. I'm not against licensing as
such. I have two boating licenses, one of which is commercial. But,
unless you are willing to make the licensing bar very high and require
COI's for all vessels I don't think you will prevent many accidents
offshore. The costs of such a program would be great and the loss of
freedom real and the benefits negligible. I think the argument for
licensing for very fast boats used in populated areas is much easer to
make than the one for offshore boaters.

-- Tom.

What did these sailors do wrong?
 

On 10 May 2007 22:40:44 -0700, "
wrote:

I think the argument for
licensing for very fast boats used in populated areas is much easer to
make than the one for offshore boaters.

Not to mention a little drug and alcohol testing.

What did these sailors do wrong?
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 10 May 2007 22:40:44 -0700, "
wrote:

I think the argument for
licensing for very fast boats used in populated areas is much easer to
make than the one for offshore boaters.

Not to mention a little drug and alcohol testing.

very difficult to enforce though.....

What did these sailors do wrong?
 

Larry wrote:
Don W wrote in news:YZK0i.1163
:

I say government should stay out of peoples lives
unless there is a compelling reason not to. I'm
really opposed to the idea that government should
become our mommies and save us from ourselves.



Everyone has presented exceptional examples of just wonderful 70-year-
old, physically fit sailors they know, some famous, some not. This is
great. If I were advocating licensing of airplane pilots, and there were
no licensing or testing or physical exams of airplane pilots, everyone
would be pointing out Chuck Yeagar and a host of airplane pilot heros,
for the same reasons....they don't need to be examined, obviously.

Those are NOT the people walking the docks to play captain where I have
been, or whom I have met. THESE are the people who need to be told when
enough is enough, just like airplane pilots are told, now. These people
walking the docks are sure they can handle any situation. Just ask them
or point out to them that they are walking a little slower than they were
10 years ago, or have trouble getting aboard, or are a little out of
breath from the walk from the parking lot, and you'll be told how
wonderful shape they are in. In their minds, just like everyone on this
newsgroup who have gotten all excited and mad at me, they are 27 and
strong as an ox....just with white hair...well, some white hair.

But, with increasing frequency lately, we find them offshore, in heavy
weather and in trouble...beaten and exhausted to the point a rescue
swimmer must be deployed to get them into the helo harness...endangering
the lives of the Coasties and everyone else who comes near the abandoned
vessel left behind.

Their inflated egos have gotten them in trouble and endangered others.
I'm not concerned with themselves. It's the "others" that continues to
bother me.

At what point does government impose the same requirements on boaters it
requires, rightfully so, of all other modes of transportation to protect
the "others", passengers, other boaters, commercial traffic and those
boys in the helos?

Larry
Almost everyone driving on our interstates and roads has a license yet
there are hundreds of people killed every day in auto accidents.
Licensing is not the ultimate answer. Common sense and good judgment is
what is needed. At any age!

What did these sailors do wrong?
 

" wrote in
oups.com:

Bicycles are popular and dangerous and
rarely licensed. Ultra-light planes, roller skates, scooters, swim
fins, pogo sticks, skis, Segways, motorized shopping carts, high
powered propeller beanies, horses, donkeys, really big prehistoric
carnivorous ducks and many, many more modes of transport may be
operated unlicensed in most countries

Ok, so, as with these devices, we won't require testing and licensing to
operate boats less than 5 hp, including manually powered. Sailboats
without engines will be exempt. Hatteras 58' motor yachts will not.

Larry
--

What did these sailors do wrong?
 

krj wrote in news:tp11i.3529$ya.477
@bignews8.bellsouth.net:

Licensing is not the ultimate answer. Common sense and good judgment is
what is needed. At any age!


Licensing is simply taxation. TESTING is the problem on the roadways. The
tests are stupidly easy so even the dumbest humans can pass them. That's
wrong. Once cursory tested, the only thing they test for is cursory vision
until they are senile. That's what the problem is on the
roads...inadequate standards that need to be REtested, especially after
they reach retirement when things start to fall apart....where I am, now.

Larry
--

What did these sailors do wrong?
 

Larry wrote:
krj wrote in news:tp11i.3529$ya.477
@bignews8.bellsouth.net:

Licensing is not the ultimate answer. Common sense and good judgment is
what is needed. At any age!


Licensing is simply taxation. TESTING is the problem on the roadways. The
tests are stupidly easy so even the dumbest humans can pass them. That's
wrong. Once cursory tested, the only thing they test for is cursory vision
until they are senile. That's what the problem is on the
roads...inadequate standards that need to be REtested, especially after
they reach retirement when things start to fall apart....where I am, now.

Larry


How about a mental stability test for you, Larry? Should nice guys like
you who are as nutty as a fruitcake be allowed on the waterways?

What did these sailors do wrong?
 

HK wrote:
Larry wrote:
krj wrote in news:tp11i.3529$ya.477
@bignews8.bellsouth.net:

Licensing is not the ultimate answer. Common sense and good judgment
is what is needed. At any age!


Licensing is simply taxation. TESTING is the problem on the
roadways. The tests are stupidly easy so even the dumbest humans can
pass them. That's wrong. Once cursory tested, the only thing they
test for is cursory vision until they are senile. That's what the
problem is on the roads...inadequate standards that need to be
REtested, especially after they reach retirement when things start to
fall apart....where I am, now.

Larry


How about a mental stability test for you, Larry? Should nice guys like
you who are as nutty as a fruitcake be allowed on the waterways?

Harry,
It appears that this is the only reason you come to rec.boats so you can
throw out one line insults.

Your wife, who as a social worker, has helped numerous people with all
kinds of problems should have given you a little more respect for those
with mental illness. I am not commenting whither or not Larry has a
mental problem, but on your habit of using mental illness as a insult.
It would be similar to making fun of someone because they had type 1
diabetes.