To Peggie and the head heads:

I am intrigued by the vacuum method of Lavac heads: they seem simple
and efficient compared to the frankly sub-par (pun intended) majority
of marine heads I've seen. Peggie, I know you vend and prefer Raritan,
so feel free to make a case. I've never seen Raritan in Toronto, but I
assume I can buy anything I want here.

Most people are day and weekend sailors: most people use the low-end
Jabsco, etc. brands. Myself, I have a Bryson from the '80s with parts
salvaged from another Bryson. (Yes, that was unpleasant). I am
planning for next season a complete overhaul of my heads installation
and I am interested in Lavacs. The price is higher, but the logic
seems sound, and frankly, I value well-built and reliable over cheap
and cheerful.

I have a 30 gallon holding tank (probably the only piece I'll keep)
and it's the Great Lakes, so there's no overboard discharge. Access to
pumpouts is usually not an issue. This boat will likely never see salt
(why start now?) but will see extensive Great Lakes cruising. I have
heard that Lavacs use too much water and are only appropriate for
"weekending". Why? Lots of British distance cruisers use Lavacs with
no complaint, or so I hear.

If not Lavac, then, why, and what are good alternatives. The only
heads firm I have heard nothing but praise for is W-C, and if I have
to go that way, I will. Twice the price and half the frustration seems
like a good trade to me, and most consumer-level heads (I will stay
manual only for simplicity's sake) seem like cheap pieces of
you-know-what.

Feel free to blast away. I want the benefit of experience beyond
wanting for Practical Sailor to revisit the topic.

R.

OK, I've had a Lavac for 4 years now and have completely mixed feelings about. On my
previous boat I had a nice W-C model which I was surprised to find out is well regarded!
Someday I'll find the perfect head.

One problem with the Lavac is that its not for amateurs. A guest will not know what to do
with it. It seems so easy - close the lid and push the button (we have an electric).
But the lid tends to stay locked by the vacuum for a long time (this depends on the
geometry of the intake hose - ours is a long run) and no one but me can open it. If you
have a different guest each weekend this might not be the best for you.

The head unit itself has no moving parts so it is virtually indestructible. The pump is a
pretty standard Henderson Mark 5 so you can get spares pretty easy. We use the electric
pump, but I also carry two manual pumps for fast swap outs - I can strip down and replace
the pump in about 20 minutes. The claim is that the Henderson can pass just about
anything, but we found that the "instant dissolve" toilet paper is necessary, and the
vacuum system is not, as is sometimes claimed, a replacement for a macerator. ( A bad
case of constipation may require manual maceration!)

This season it clogged 4 times in 8 days, until I discovered I had installed a "manual"
flapper instead of the "electric" version. The extra few grams of the electric version
helps it seal better. BTW, the manual pump was OK for short trips, but when we moved on
board I broke down and got the electric. Expensive, but cheaper than physical therapy for
"pumper's elbow." It comes with a timer, but I also wired a manual switch so you can run
it 5 seconds.

As for water usage, I've always heard it uses less than most, not more. I don't know
what others take, but our alleged 35 gallon (US) tank fills in 6 days with 3 people on
board.

So, you may be wondering if I still like it? Yes, I think its better than most, and for
all the little hassles its been easier to maintain than a normal head. However, the next
boat I setup I might go for a Vacuflush!

--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup at the
deli."



wrote in message ...
To Peggie and the head heads:

I am intrigued by the vacuum method of Lavac heads: they seem simple
and efficient compared to the frankly sub-par (pun intended) majority
of marine heads I've seen. Peggie, I know you vend and prefer Raritan,
so feel free to make a case. I've never seen Raritan in Toronto, but I
assume I can buy anything I want here.

Most people are day and weekend sailors: most people use the low-end
Jabsco, etc. brands. Myself, I have a Bryson from the '80s with parts
salvaged from another Bryson. (Yes, that was unpleasant). I am
planning for next season a complete overhaul of my heads installation
and I am interested in Lavacs. The price is higher, but the logic
seems sound, and frankly, I value well-built and reliable over cheap
and cheerful.

I have a 30 gallon holding tank (probably the only piece I'll keep)
and it's the Great Lakes, so there's no overboard discharge. Access to
pumpouts is usually not an issue. This boat will likely never see salt
(why start now?) but will see extensive Great Lakes cruising. I have
heard that Lavacs use too much water and are only appropriate for
"weekending". Why? Lots of British distance cruisers use Lavacs with
no complaint, or so I hear.

If not Lavac, then, why, and what are good alternatives. The only
heads firm I have heard nothing but praise for is W-C, and if I have
to go that way, I will. Twice the price and half the frustration seems
like a good trade to me, and most consumer-level heads (I will stay
manual only for simplicity's sake) seem like cheap pieces of
you-know-what.

Feel free to blast away. I want the benefit of experience beyond
wanting for Practical Sailor to revisit the topic.

R.

wrote:
To Peggie and the head heads:

I am intrigued by the vacuum method of Lavac heads: they seem simple
and efficient compared to the frankly sub-par (pun intended) majority
of marine heads I've seen. Peggie, I know you vend and prefer Raritan,
so feel free to make a case.

Hold the phone...I don't "vend" ANYTHING...I sold my company to Raritan,
but I have no relationship with them or any other company. I call 'em as
I see 'em (which is why I don't have a relationship with any mfr...they
all tend to get just a wee bit testy when an employee recommends a
competitor's product over their own). I do like MOST Raritan products,
but I'm not alone in that...PS and everyone else who tests equipment
rates 'em the best bang for the buck too, especially the manual PH II.

Most people are day and weekend sailors: most people use the low-end
Jabsco, etc. brands. Myself, I have a Bryson from the '80s with parts
salvaged from another Bryson.

Not that it matters, but you mean Brydon--a version the Jabsco manual
that was made in Canada under licensing agreement. If today's Jabsco
toilets were built even half as well as the Brydon Boy was, they'd
outlast most PH IIs.

planning for next season a complete overhaul of my heads installation
and I am interested in Lavacs. The price is higher, but the logic
seems sound, and frankly, I value well-built and reliable over cheap
and cheerful.

The Lavac is an excellent toilet...made by Blake, whose "Baby Blake"
compact toilet is one of the best in the world--arguably better than the
W-C Skipper...both built to have lifespans measured in centuries if
maintained--and with price tags to match...about $1000.

But as Jeff said, the Lavac is NOT child/landlubber
guest-friendly...instead, about as intimidating to 'em as the toilet on
submarine would be. So while it's an excellent choice for adult
blue-water cruisers, I can't recommend it for the typical "weekend
warrior" sailor.

...I have
heard that Lavacs use too much water and are only appropriate for
"weekending". Why?

It's true that they do use a bit of flush water, but I dunno where
anyone got that idea...'cuz it's just the opposite--they have no moving
parts...the pump is a diaphragm bilge pump, and requires no more
maintenance than any other diaphragm bilge pump--occasional lubrication
and a new diaphragm every 5-10 years....compared to the average
piston/cylinder pump toilet, they're virtually maintenance-free. Which
is WHY they're so popular with blue water cruisers.

Lots of British distance cruisers use Lavacs with
no complaint, or so I hear.

The Lavac can use a lot of flush water...but that doesn't matter to
blue water cruisers because they don't have to worry much about filling
up holding tanks...they flush directly overboard at sea and in many
foreign coastal waters too.

If not Lavac, then, why, and what are good alternatives.

If it weren't for the relatively small holding tank on a very big "no
discharge" body of water...and if there's never (ok, rarely) anyone on
your boat but you and other well-seasoned sailors, I'd say go with the
Lavac. But if you're the typical weekender who only takes occasional
long cruises of a week or more, and frequently have guests aboard, I
don't think it's the right toilet for your boat.

The only
heads firm I have heard nothing but praise for is W-C...

That depends on which model. Their low end Headmate doesn't get very
high marks...their top of the line Skipper and now discontinued Imperial
and Winner models are the best toilets you can buy. But they'll cost you
$700-$800 at discount. If you're planning to keep this boat for the rest
of your life, that's a worthwhile investment...but if you're like most
people who trade up or down (or into a trawler) every 3-10 years, I
think you can be just as happy with a toilet that costs about $250 at
discount-- the Raritan PH II. Lever action pump instead of the typical
"bicycle pump" allows it to swallow amounts of solids and TP that would
choke any other toilet under $700. Exceptionally durable...keep it
properly lubricated and rebuild it about every 5 years or so, and it'll
last at least 20 years before any hardware needs replacing.

Stay away from the electrified version, though--the PHE II...the motor
does nothing but replace the pump handle, pumps it faster and with a
shorter stroke than pumping manually, which wears out seals and o-rings
twice as fast and causes it to choke on anything much more than 3 sheets
of TP. IMO putting a motor on a PH II turns a fine manual toilet into a
very poor excuse for an electric toilet.

Feel free to blast away. I want the benefit of experience beyond
wanting for Practical Sailor to revisit the topic.

They just did, about this time last year or the year before...and the PH
II came out on top...again, as it has every time for a couple of decades
and its predecessor PH did for a decade or two before that.

You asked for my $.02 worth...that's it.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:25:35 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

Blake, whose "Baby Blake"
compact toilet is one of the best in the world--arguably better than the
W-C Skipper...both built to have lifespans measured in centuries if
maintained--and with price tags to match...about $1000.


Very true,,,,, Owners of Baby Blakes (mostly) swear by them except if
they need to buy bits when they/we swear at them. I'm just fitting a
new inlet pump body,the old one was split by frost, my fault, lack of
proper lay up. The last inch or so of the pump stays full of water and
an inch of frozen water splits bronze. The new one cost £130+.
Have you seen the GOLD PLATED version? £2000 plus. For that sort of
money I'd expect the man from Blakes to come and use it for me. Like
the Queen, it's well known she never uses the toilet. She has people
to do that sort of thing for her.

Ian Wright, Patience, Vertue 203

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:25:35 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

wrote:
To Peggie and the head heads:

I am intrigued by the vacuum method of Lavac heads: they seem simple
and efficient compared to the frankly sub-par (pun intended) majority
of marine heads I've seen. Peggie, I know you vend and prefer Raritan,
so feel free to make a case.

Hold the phone...I don't "vend" ANYTHING...I sold my company to Raritan,
but I have no relationship with them or any other company.

My apologies...I am obviously working on old and possibly incomplete
information.

I call 'em as
I see 'em (which is why I don't have a relationship with any mfr...they
all tend to get just a wee bit testy when an employee recommends a
competitor's product over their own). I do like MOST Raritan products,
but I'm not alone in that...PS and everyone else who tests equipment
rates 'em the best bang for the buck too, especially the manual PH II.

I'll check it out...if I can see one "live" around here.

Most people are day and weekend sailors: most people use the low-end
Jabsco, etc. brands. Myself, I have a Bryson from the '80s with parts
salvaged from another Bryson.

Not that it matters, but you mean Brydon--a version the Jabsco manual
that was made in Canada under licensing agreement. If today's Jabsco
toilets were built even half as well as the Brydon Boy was, they'd
outlast most PH IIs.

Correct...Brydon is the one. I *did* say I rebuilt it into a
FrankenHead from a salvaged one...but that can't last forever, so I am
looking for a better solution.

planning for next season a complete overhaul of my heads installation
and I am interested in Lavacs. The price is higher, but the logic
seems sound, and frankly, I value well-built and reliable over cheap
and cheerful.

The Lavac is an excellent toilet...made by Blake, whose "Baby Blake"
compact toilet is one of the best in the world--arguably better than the
W-C Skipper...both built to have lifespans measured in centuries if
maintained--and with price tags to match...about $1000.

Thank God the Canadian dollar is past 75 cents U.S.,,,,eek.

But as Jeff said, the Lavac is NOT child/landlubber
guest-friendly...instead, about as intimidating to 'em as the toilet on
submarine would be. So while it's an excellent choice for adult
blue-water cruisers, I can't recommend it for the typical "weekend
warrior" sailor.

I don't have guests usually, as the type of trips we take tend to be
about sailing, not ferrying a booze crew around G. Also, at dock I
tend to send 'em up to the clubhouse with a "scary head" story...I
don't like pumping out my own leaving, never mind visitors...So unless
it involves NASA-levels of complexity, it's not a deal-killer.


...I have
heard that Lavacs use too much water and are only appropriate for
"weekending". Why?

It's true that they do use a bit of flush water, but I dunno where
anyone got that idea...'cuz it's just the opposite--they have no moving
parts...the pump is a diaphragm bilge pump, and requires no more
maintenance than any other diaphragm bilge pump--occasional lubrication
and a new diaphragm every 5-10 years....compared to the average
piston/cylinder pump toilet, they're virtually maintenance-free. Which
is WHY they're so popular with blue water cruisers.

I like, I like...

Lots of British distance cruisers use Lavacs with
no complaint, or so I hear.

The Lavac can use a lot of flush water...but that doesn't matter to
blue water cruisers because they don't have to worry much about filling
up holding tanks...they flush directly overboard at sea and in many
foreign coastal waters too.

Fair enough. I guess they use the verboten "Y" connection in
conjunction with a vented loop...I think if I installed that in the
Great Lakes I'd have to convincingly disable it as our Coast Guard
frowns on the mere presence of a method to fire waste out the side...

If not Lavac, then, why, and what are good alternatives.

If it weren't for the relatively small holding tank on a very big "no
discharge" body of water...and if there's never (ok, rarely) anyone on
your boat but you and other well-seasoned sailors, I'd say go with the
Lavac. But if you're the typical weekender who only takes occasional
long cruises of a week or more, and frequently have guests aboard, I
don't think it's the right toilet for your boat.

OK, thanks. Any sense of how much the Lavac needs per flush? I draw
lake water into the head from the same thru-hull as the sink
drain...it's T'd off just below the waterline (above the standard
bronze ball cock at the thruhull end) and a plastic ball valve is
just below the sink drainpipe, so I alternate closing and opening the
T if I want to either drain the sink or pump the head. It works well
and is compact. Lots and lots of doubled SS hose clamps, though.

The only
heads firm I have heard nothing but praise for is W-C...

That depends on which model. Their low end Headmate doesn't get very
high marks...their top of the line Skipper and now discontinued Imperial
and Winner models are the best toilets you can buy. But they'll cost you
$700-$800 at discount. If you're planning to keep this boat for the rest
of your life, that's a worthwhile investment...but if you're like most
people who trade up or down (or into a trawler) every 3-10 years, I
think you can be just as happy with a toilet that costs about $250 at
discount-- the Raritan PH II. Lever action pump instead of the typical
"bicycle pump" allows it to swallow amounts of solids and TP that would
choke any other toilet under $700. Exceptionally durable...keep it
properly lubricated and rebuild it about every 5 years or so, and it'll
last at least 20 years before any hardware needs replacing.

I will follow it up then, thanks.

Stay away from the electrified version, though--the PHE II...the motor
does nothing but replace the pump handle, pumps it faster and with a
shorter stroke than pumping manually, which wears out seals and o-rings
twice as fast and causes it to choke on anything much more than 3 sheets
of TP. IMO putting a motor on a PH II turns a fine manual toilet into a
very poor excuse for an electric toilet.

I have no time for electric toilets with only two house batteries and
a 35 amp alternator G. I would electrify a windlass before a toilet.
The exercise is good for the arm...

Feel free to blast away. I want the benefit of experience beyond
wanting for Practical Sailor to revisit the topic.

They just did, about this time last year or the year before...and the PH
II came out on top...again, as it has every time for a couple of decades
and its predecessor PH did for a decade or two before that.

You asked for my $.02 worth...that's it.

Peggie

Many thanks, Peggie.

R.

Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments.

Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room. The seals
ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody
even cleans the sea. The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing -
yuck. The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum
pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush
with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum. A friend
with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with
Groco K's.

More - Raritan PH II heads are poorly designed and regardless of
Peggy's current ralationship - these are crappy toilets. I've owned 4
of them and replaced them with Groco K's. The Groco were recently
factory rebuilt by Groco - like new after 12 years hard use. The PH II
flush lever is horizontal and operating it puts your face directly
above the bowl - nice view. The lever operates a s/s rod up and down
and this rod has a "water lubricated" seal which tends to spray up in
your arm and face. It's sewage water.


On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:02:34 -0400, wrote:

To Peggie and the head heads:

I am intrigued by the vacuum method of Lavac heads: they seem simple
and efficient compared to the frankly sub-par (pun intended) majority
of marine heads I've seen. Peggie, I know you vend and prefer Raritan,
so feel free to make a case. I've never seen Raritan in Toronto, but I
assume I can buy anything I want here.

Most people are day and weekend sailors: most people use the low-end
Jabsco, etc. brands. Myself, I have a Bryson from the '80s with parts
salvaged from another Bryson. (Yes, that was unpleasant). I am
planning for next season a complete overhaul of my heads installation
and I am interested in Lavacs. The price is higher, but the logic
seems sound, and frankly, I value well-built and reliable over cheap
and cheerful.

I have a 30 gallon holding tank (probably the only piece I'll keep)
and it's the Great Lakes, so there's no overboard discharge. Access to
pumpouts is usually not an issue. This boat will likely never see salt
(why start now?) but will see extensive Great Lakes cruising. I have
heard that Lavacs use too much water and are only appropriate for
"weekending". Why? Lots of British distance cruisers use Lavacs with
no complaint, or so I hear.

If not Lavac, then, why, and what are good alternatives. The only
heads firm I have heard nothing but praise for is W-C, and if I have
to go that way, I will. Twice the price and half the frustration seems
like a good trade to me, and most consumer-level heads (I will stay
manual only for simplicity's sake) seem like cheap pieces of
you-know-what.

Feel free to blast away. I want the benefit of experience beyond
wanting for Practical Sailor to revisit the topic.

R.

"yes" wrote in message
...
Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments.


Do you have any personal experiance?

Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room.

They make a normal size and a compact. It is true that you can't use a "Home Depot" seat
with it.

The seals
ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody
even cleans the sea.

The seats aren't painted. The seals are non-marking white rubber and I've never seen a
mark.

The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing - yuck.

They don't get badly slimed unless the pump flapper is jammed. The same thing can happen
on any head, often worse. The underside of the seat should be wiped down every few
days, depending on the use.

The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum
pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush
with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum.

Don't kneel on them. They do flex with the vacuum, but mine hasen't broken in four years,
and a friend has one that must be 15 years old. They cost $100, and should probably be
considered an appropriate spare if you're leaving the realm of FedEx. Seals are a must.
Also pump spares, but the Henderson parts can be easily had.

A friend
with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with
Groco K's.


As I've said, they are not for transients.

Now we're getting some real facts on the table - we need more?

Yes, I've lots of personal experience - with those of others.

It is true you don't get a "house bowl" sized seat like you can in
real heads or home toilets.

It's also true that after a while the wear from the lid seals wears
off the paint on the seat and it looks unclean.

Not only is the lid a replaceable necessary item - so are the lid-seat
and seat-bowl seals and they're big $$$ also.

BTW, new Home Depot seats/lids for real toilets are $6.00 and last as
long as home use.




On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:41:49 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote:

"yes" wrote in message
.. .
Read the archives of this NG for many accurate comments.


Do you have any personal experiance?

Some points - the Lavac has a small seat and no ass room.

They make a normal size and a compact. It is true that you can't use a "Home Depot" seat
with it.

The seals
ruin the paint on the seats and they always look dirty - like nobody
even cleans the sea.

The seats aren't painted. The seals are non-marking white rubber and I've never seen a
mark.

The Lavac seats freq are wet from flushing - yuck.

They don't get badly slimed unless the pump flapper is jammed. The same thing can happen
on any head, often worse. The underside of the seat should be wiped down every few
days, depending on the use.

The lavac seat lids are prone to cracking from the vacuum
pressure or kneeling on them - cost $$$ and the toilet won't flush
with a cracked lid or bad seals - can't get good enuf vacuum.

Don't kneel on them. They do flex with the vacuum, but mine hasen't broken in four years,
and a friend has one that must be 15 years old. They cost $100, and should probably be
considered an appropriate spare if you're leaving the realm of FedEx. Seals are a must.
Also pump spares, but the Henderson parts can be easily had.

A friend
with a big French charter boat had 5 onboard - replaced them all with
Groco K's.


As I've said, they are not for transients.

"Baja-Mo" wrote in message
...
Now we're getting some real facts on the table - we need more?

Yes, I've lots of personal experience - with those of others.

it looks doubtful ...


It is true you don't get a "house bowl" sized seat like you can in
real heads or home toilets.


The Lavac Zenith seat is slightly larger than an American Standard seat, the Popular is
slightly smaller. The differences are less than 1/2 inch.


It's also true that after a while the wear from the lid seals wears
off the paint on the seat and it looks unclean.


Hasn't happened to us in 4 years years of use. If it start to show wear maybe I'll spring
for a new seat - its only $24.


Not only is the lid a replaceable necessary item - so are the lid-seat
and seat-bowl seals and they're big $$$ also.


As I said the seals are a necessary spare. For the Popular, a complete set of seat, lid,
and both seals is $88. The Zenith lid & seat is more expensive.

Its a myth the the seat and seals are "necessary." The pump will empty the bowl even it
it can't form a vacuum. The vacuum is needed to draw water in. In a pinch, the head
still functions without a seal. I keep a cup nearby so that if the previous user didn't
pump enough to draw seawater in, I can add some.


BTW, new Home Depot seats/lids for real toilets are $6.00 and last as
long as home use.


I paid $9.98 last week, but that was for a "Sky Blue" seat. But what's the point?
Obviously part of the process of chosing any piece of gear you have to include the cost of
all appropriate spares. The seat is one of the key components of the Lavac, $48 for a lid
and seat is not that outrageous.

My point was to get some truth and facts into the discussion - instead
of the gloss over that is happening.

In fact, the Zenith seat is slightly smaller than an American standard
toilet seat - see http://www.lavac.com/parts-list.htm
and the Popular model is smaller still.

In fact a Zenith replacement seat costs $108 and a Zenith replacement
lid costs $108 and each seal costs $18 and a pump kit costs $46 - so a
spare parts kit for a toilet is $298 - see URL above.

Now everybody can see that you need not only spare pumps and pump kits
but also spare lids and seal sets when cruising. $300 in spares for
your toilet.

Why not just be factual instead of quoting the most favorable numbers
and glossing over the real facts.


On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:32:05 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote:

"Baja-Mo" wrote in message
.. .
Now we're getting some real facts on the table - we need more?

Yes, I've lots of personal experience - with those of others.

it looks doubtful ...


It is true you don't get a "house bowl" sized seat like you can in
real heads or home toilets.


The Lavac Zenith seat is slightly larger than an American Standard seat, the Popular is
slightly smaller. The differences are less than 1/2 inch.


It's also true that after a while the wear from the lid seals wears
off the paint on the seat and it looks unclean.


Hasn't happened to us in 4 years years of use. If it start to show wear maybe I'll spring
for a new seat - its only $24.


Not only is the lid a replaceable necessary item - so are the lid-seat
and seat-bowl seals and they're big $$$ also.


As I said the seals are a necessary spare. For the Popular, a complete set of seat, lid,
and both seals is $88. The Zenith lid & seat is more expensive.

Its a myth the the seat and seals are "necessary." The pump will empty the bowl even it
it can't form a vacuum. The vacuum is needed to draw water in. In a pinch, the head
still functions without a seal. I keep a cup nearby so that if the previous user didn't
pump enough to draw seawater in, I can add some.


BTW, new Home Depot seats/lids for real toilets are $6.00 and last as
long as home use.


I paid $9.98 last week, but that was for a "Sky Blue" seat. But what's the point?
Obviously part of the process of chosing any piece of gear you have to include the cost of
all appropriate spares. The seat is one of the key components of the Lavac, $48 for a lid
and seat is not that outrageous.