Roger ,, I didn't know anything about the sinking/disappearance so I looked
up using google. From what I read on the net, there have been other
disappearances in that area.

Lots of speculation about whales and ships.

Sounds like a pretty bad area to boat in.

============================
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I've been asked by private email to comment on the Bill Grey
disappearance.

Back when I was flying general aviation airplanes, I had a lot more
opportunity to the mysterious deaths of people engaged in my favorite
activity. When a plane went down without clear cause, the newsgroups I
frequented then would erupt with speculation followed by flames about the
futility and disrespect of speculation.

I never found the speculation that objectionable myself as long as people
were not claiming to have the answer because of their superior knowledge,
intellect, and analytical skills. Safety in any hazardous environment is
always enhanced by pondering what could go wrong and how you would prevent
or respond to it.

Although I now get paid for applying my knowledge, intellect, and
analytical skills to things like the sinking of the Titanic, I couldn't
begin to form an opinion about what actually happened here. However, it's
instructive for anyone who takes a small craft to sea to think about how
this this boat could have disappeared so suddenly that no distress call
could be made.

--
Roger Long

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:XIKxh.4040$FM3.311@trndny06...
Roger ,, I didn't know anything about the sinking/disappearance so I
looked up using google. From what I read on the net, there have been
other disappearances in that area.

Lots of speculation about whales and ships.

Sounds like a pretty bad area to boat in.


It can be, but it can also be an outstanding area. If you plan ahead, have
all the proper safety equipment, and prepare yourself and your boat, you'll
do fine.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

NE Sailboat wrote:
Roger ,, I didn't know anything about the sinking/disappearance so I looked
up using google. From what I read on the net, there have been other
disappearances in that area.

Lots of speculation about whales and ships.

Sounds like a pretty bad area to boat in.

I'd have to disagree with this. Sure, there are some hazards, but they
are well known and easy to avoid. Specifically, there are a couple of
shoal areas outside the gate (the Potato Patch and the Southern Shoal)
that can be quite uncomfortable, dangerous or even disastrous when the
swell is high. There is also some shipping traffic.

The shoals are well know to anyone who has spent any time in the area as
I understand Grey had. In any case, from all accounts, conditions on
the day he disappeared were apparently such that they wouldn't have been
a problem even if he went right through one of them. As for the ships,
they are confined to a well known and marked channel and unless it's
foggy, they are easy to avoid (certainly no harder to avoid than inside
the bay). Lots of places have as much or more shipping going in and out
than SF bay.

I've been out to the Faralons and back many times in our boats. On a
nice day (such as it was), it's a wonderful daysail.

"Dan Best" wrote in message
...
NE Sailboat wrote:
Roger ,, I didn't know anything about the sinking/disappearance so I
looked up using google. From what I read on the net, there have been
other disappearances in that area.

Lots of speculation about whales and ships.

Sounds like a pretty bad area to boat in.

I'd have to disagree with this. Sure, there are some hazards, but they
are well known and easy to avoid. Specifically, there are a couple of
shoal areas outside the gate (the Potato Patch and the Southern Shoal)
that can be quite uncomfortable, dangerous or even disastrous when the
swell is high. There is also some shipping traffic.

The shoals are well know to anyone who has spent any time in the area as I
understand Grey had. In any case, from all accounts, conditions on the
day he disappeared were apparently such that they wouldn't have been a
problem even if he went right through one of them. As for the ships, they
are confined to a well known and marked channel and unless it's foggy,
they are easy to avoid (certainly no harder to avoid than inside the bay).
Lots of places have as much or more shipping going in and out than SF bay.

I've been out to the Faralons and back many times in our boats. On a nice
day (such as it was), it's a wonderful daysail.


Dan,

In some respects, I'd say that the tanker/container traffic in the bay is
more dangerous than outside. There's more of a concentration of traffic (not
including ferries, kayakers, sail, pleasure boats, etc.) and less
experienced people. I've had customers on my boat who had some sailing
experience that on their own would have totally misjudged big ship traffic,
both in direction and speed. Outside, they pretty much stay on track.

Sounds like you sail in the area... out of where?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:XIKxh.4040$FM3.311@trndny06...
Roger ,, I didn't know anything about the sinking/disappearance so I
looked up using google. From what I read on the net, there have been
other disappearances in that area.

Lots of speculation about whales and ships.

Sounds like a pretty bad area to boat in.


It can be, but it can also be an outstanding area. If you plan ahead, have
all the proper safety equipment, and prepare yourself and your boat,
you'll do fine.

That concept, couple with more than the IQ of a rock, will apply to all
areas of sailing.

"Beatsme" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:XIKxh.4040$FM3.311@trndny06...
Roger ,, I didn't know anything about the sinking/disappearance so I
looked up using google. From what I read on the net, there have been
other disappearances in that area.

Lots of speculation about whales and ships.

Sounds like a pretty bad area to boat in.


It can be, but it can also be an outstanding area. If you plan ahead,
have all the proper safety equipment, and prepare yourself and your boat,
you'll do fine.

That concept, couple with more than the IQ of a rock, will apply to all
areas of sailing.



Really? Wow. Thanks for the info! g


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
In some respects, I'd say that the tanker/container traffic in the bay is
more dangerous than outside.

I agree 100% for all the reasons you state. On "special" days such as
opening day, fleet week, etc., we don't even go out any more. It's just
too much of a zoo.

Sounds like you sail in the area... out of where?

We spent the last two years sailing around the Pacific, making it as far
as Tonga before family issues mandated that we return last fall. Prior
to that, for years we kept out boats either in Richmond's Marina Bay or
up in Bodega. Since we got back, our Tayana 37 has been in Richmond
Point's Brickyard Cove marina (we got lucky and our names came up to the
top of the waiting list just about the time we got back last October).

We still haven't gotten around to posting the photos from the 2nd half
of the trip, but if you're interested, here are some from the first
year. http://triciajean192.home.comcast.net

- Dan

"Dan Best" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
In some respects, I'd say that the tanker/container traffic in the bay is
more dangerous than outside.

I agree 100% for all the reasons you state. On "special" days such as
opening day, fleet week, etc., we don't even go out any more. It's just
too much of a zoo.

Sounds like you sail in the area... out of where?

We spent the last two years sailing around the Pacific, making it as far
as Tonga before family issues mandated that we return last fall. Prior to
that, for years we kept out boats either in Richmond's Marina Bay or up in
Bodega. Since we got back, our Tayana 37 has been in Richmond Point's
Brickyard Cove marina (we got lucky and our names came up to the top of
the waiting list just about the time we got back last October).

We still haven't gotten around to posting the photos from the 2nd half of
the trip, but if you're interested, here are some from the first year.
http://triciajean192.home.comcast.net

- Dan


Nice boat/pictures. My boat is in Brickyard also (Sabre 30). I was on what I
thought was a long waiting list.. Margaret told me 6 mos to a year, but it
was only 4 mos. I was in Marina Bay previously. Not bad, but I like the
direct access at Brickyard.

Last Fleet Week, we were sailing around with just the main up, but did a
decent job of staying out of the main part of the crowd... mostly in the
slot. Got some great pics of the air show...
http://sailnow.photosite.com/FleetWeek2006/.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Dan,

I agree that this isn't a particularly "bad area to boat in". In fact,
I'd say it was one of the best around, offering a great variety of
conditions. I feel quite lucky to have had the opportunity to have
learned a lot sailing in the SF bay and environs.

Interestingly, the gentleman whose boat is across from mine happened to
see Mr. Gray's boat as it was exiting the bay. According to my neighbor
they were behind him but within sight as they passed under the GG
bridge, and eventually caught up and passed him as they headed out to
the Farallons.

He didn't think anything was wrong or ominous, but he said that at one
point the boat turned 90 degrees south, ran for a bit, then turned back
west again. Odd, but not that unusual.

I think the possibility that something happened, and the boat kept
sailing on autopilot is quite high, but I do wonder how much debris
would be visible if the boat sank very quickly without rupturing the
fuel tanks. Especially if this occurred somewhere outside the search area.

Robb



Dan Best wrote:
NE Sailboat wrote:

Roger ,, I didn't know anything about the sinking/disappearance so I
looked up using google. From what I read on the net, there have been
other disappearances in that area.

Lots of speculation about whales and ships.

Sounds like a pretty bad area to boat in.


I'd have to disagree with this. Sure, there are some hazards, but they
are well known and easy to avoid. Specifically, there are a couple of
shoal areas outside the gate (the Potato Patch and the Southern Shoal)
that can be quite uncomfortable, dangerous or even disastrous when the
swell is high. There is also some shipping traffic.

The shoals are well know to anyone who has spent any time in the area as
I understand Grey had. In any case, from all accounts, conditions on
the day he disappeared were apparently such that they wouldn't have been
a problem even if he went right through one of them. As for the ships,
they are confined to a well known and marked channel and unless it's
foggy, they are easy to avoid (certainly no harder to avoid than inside
the bay). Lots of places have as much or more shipping going in and out
than SF bay.

I've been out to the Faralons and back many times in our boats. On a
nice day (such as it was), it's a wonderful daysail.

Here's a possible scenario... by the way it's Jim Gray...

He's out there to scatter his mother's ashes.

He has some sort of catestrophic medical event.. HA, stroke, whatever, and
dies or is incapacitated quickly, unable to summon help.

Sure, disposing of a loved one's remains is certainly going to have some
degree of stress. Imagine trying to be respectful about it, but a gust of
wind picks up and next thing you know you're wearing said ashes. That's
enough to freak most people out, so he loses his footing, smacks his head,
etc... Or, worse yet, the mental trauma is significant enough to lead to
suicide.

All around not a good thing.