Wow,

Some of you guys are really getting into the complexity of this problem but
there may be a much simpler solution. I think we all agree that it is
rather inefficient to use an inverter to convert DC power to AC power. Why
not just convert your AC appliances to DC?

No, I don't mean, pull them apart and get out the soldering iron and spare
parts from the heathkits you had when you were a kid. Just go to the travel
shop at your local truck stop. You'll see that there are all types of 12
volt appliances available from blenders to electric blankets and yes, even
hair dryers. Some of these appliances are starting to also show up in
boating stores as well. If you do a web search, you can find some too.

Of course, I don't think you'll find a 12 volt AC unit. You'll may still
need a generator if you want to stay cool.

good luck


"John Tretick" wrote in message
...
Hello Group,
+
I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not
at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor
with
a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI
circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored.
Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which
works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC..
but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that..

Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how
long you can run on it without depleting one battery..
Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose.

Thaks,

John

DC watts are equal to AC watts! A hair dryer requires about 1200 watts
to produce enough heat to dry your hair. 1200 W at 120 VAC = 10 amps.
1200 W at 12V = 12.5 VDC = 96 amps. How big is your battery? A pair of
Trojan J305H 6V batteries have a 20 Ahr rating of 335 Ahrs and weigh 97
lbs each. The 75 Ahr rating is 117 MINUTES. Then the battery is
COMPLETELY discharged (10.5V).
My SSB radio requires 30 amps transmitting. With the other loads in the
boat ( fans, lights etc.) the load approaches 50 amps. I limit transmit
time to 10 minutes in order not to have to run the engine to recharge
the battery ( I still have to run the engine twice a day to recharge)
I have tried 12 volt blenders. They use about 125 watts or 10 amps. They
don't work very well for making frozen drinks with ice cubes. A good
120v blender uses about 720 watts or 6 amps.
So getting 12 volt appliances is not an answer. If you want a lot of
"convenience" toys, get a generator.

Kelton
s/v Isle Escape

Frank Taylor, Jr. wrote:
Wow,

Some of you guys are really getting into the complexity of this problem but
there may be a much simpler solution. I think we all agree that it is
rather inefficient to use an inverter to convert DC power to AC power. Why
not just convert your AC appliances to DC?

No, I don't mean, pull them apart and get out the soldering iron and spare
parts from the heathkits you had when you were a kid. Just go to the travel
shop at your local truck stop. You'll see that there are all types of 12
volt appliances available from blenders to electric blankets and yes, even
hair dryers. Some of these appliances are starting to also show up in
boating stores as well. If you do a web search, you can find some too.

Of course, I don't think you'll find a 12 volt AC unit. You'll may still
need a generator if you want to stay cool.

good luck


"John Tretick" wrote in message
...

Hello Group,
+
I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when not
at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor

with

a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI
circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm anchored.
Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W which
works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC..
but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that..

Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious how
long you can run on it without depleting one battery..
Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose.

Thaks,

John

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:48:06 -0400, Kelton Joyner
wrote:

My SSB radio requires 30 amps transmitting. With the other loads in the
boat ( fans, lights etc.) the load approaches 50 amps. I limit transmit
time to 10 minutes in order not to have to run the engine to recharge

It was great up to here^^. SSB puts out 150 watts PEAK ENVELOPE
POWER. The linear amp is about 65% efficient, these days of IC
bricks. Idle current is so low the brick amp is connected directly to
the power source, whether the radio is on or off. It's simply cut off
electronically.

A properly voice-modulated 150WPEP transmitter draws about 5A of
"average" current. You'll see the lights dim on PEAKS of voice
modulation, but in between words it draws 0 amps when it's putting out
0 watts. If you were operating AM, your average load would go up
quite a bit as there is always a carrier being transmitted, modulation
or not, but that's not the case on SSB which is very efficient.

I'm a ham, obviously. My 650W mobile SSB rig, a Yaesu FT-900
transceiver driving a highly modified TenTec Hercules II 12V linear
amp, which is actually FOUR linear amps in parallel, draws a peak load
of about 120A from its Mercedes diesel starting battery in parallel
with a 130AH deep-cycle boat battery mounted next to the radio and
linear in the trunk of my 1973 Mercedes 220diesel (which is the ideal
ham car with ZERO electronics). The mobile will still start after
operating a contest all day at this level. My average current drain
is about 20-25A while transmitting voice. RTTY or PSK31, our new ham
radio digital mode, which runs full power at 100% duty cycle, is
another matter altogether. For the mobile data mode, I prefer packet
radio's burst transmissions at 300 baud. I've operated 650 watts as a
mobile, cross-band (VHF to HF), packet repeater at hamfests for
years....great fun working the world from a 1W walkie talkie and
simple notebook computer.

Your fans and lights are a MUCH HIGHER average load than your SSB
radio ever was.....



Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

Kelton,

I think you may have missed the fact that the original poster said that he
has no space for a generator. I don't think anyone can disagree with your
point that 120 v appliances are generally better than 12v appliances as far
as performance goes. My only point was that if you use an inverter to
convert from DC to AC, You are throwing a lot of power away which would
cause you to run your batteries down a lot quicker.

Is a 1500 watt AC hair dryer better than a 12V DC hair dryer? Of course it
is, but in this situation the 12V unit will still get the job done (maybe in
5 minutes rather than 2) and it will be more efficient.
"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message
. ..
DC watts are equal to AC watts! A hair dryer requires about 1200 watts
to produce enough heat to dry your hair. 1200 W at 120 VAC = 10 amps.
1200 W at 12V = 12.5 VDC = 96 amps. How big is your battery? A pair of
Trojan J305H 6V batteries have a 20 Ahr rating of 335 Ahrs and weigh 97
lbs each. The 75 Ahr rating is 117 MINUTES. Then the battery is
COMPLETELY discharged (10.5V).
My SSB radio requires 30 amps transmitting. With the other loads in the
boat ( fans, lights etc.) the load approaches 50 amps. I limit transmit
time to 10 minutes in order not to have to run the engine to recharge
the battery ( I still have to run the engine twice a day to recharge)
I have tried 12 volt blenders. They use about 125 watts or 10 amps. They
don't work very well for making frozen drinks with ice cubes. A good
120v blender uses about 720 watts or 6 amps.
So getting 12 volt appliances is not an answer. If you want a lot of
"convenience" toys, get a generator.

Kelton
s/v Isle Escape

Frank Taylor, Jr. wrote:
Wow,

Some of you guys are really getting into the complexity of this problem
but
there may be a much simpler solution. I think we all agree that it is
rather inefficient to use an inverter to convert DC power to AC power.
Why
not just convert your AC appliances to DC?

No, I don't mean, pull them apart and get out the soldering iron and
spare
parts from the heathkits you had when you were a kid. Just go to the
travel
shop at your local truck stop. You'll see that there are all types of
12
volt appliances available from blenders to electric blankets and yes,
even
hair dryers. Some of these appliances are starting to also show up in
boating stores as well. If you do a web search, you can find some too.

Of course, I don't think you'll find a 12 volt AC unit. You'll may
still
need a generator if you want to stay cool.

good luck


"John Tretick" wrote in message
...

Hello Group,
+
I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when
not
at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor

with

a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in GFI
circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm
anchored.
Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W
which
works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC..
but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that..

Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious
how
long you can run on it without depleting one battery..
Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose.

Thaks,

John

If you go to www.hilltoprv.net, you will see that they have all kinds of 12V
appliances for boats and RV's including a 12V DC hair dryer that uses only
168 watts.


"Frank Taylor, Jr." wrote in message
...
Kelton,

I think you may have missed the fact that the original poster said that he
has no space for a generator. I don't think anyone can disagree with your
point that 120 v appliances are generally better than 12v appliances as
far
as performance goes. My only point was that if you use an inverter to
convert from DC to AC, You are throwing a lot of power away which would
cause you to run your batteries down a lot quicker.

Is a 1500 watt AC hair dryer better than a 12V DC hair dryer? Of course
it
is, but in this situation the 12V unit will still get the job done (maybe
in
5 minutes rather than 2) and it will be more efficient.
"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message
. ..
DC watts are equal to AC watts! A hair dryer requires about 1200 watts
to produce enough heat to dry your hair. 1200 W at 120 VAC = 10 amps.
1200 W at 12V = 12.5 VDC = 96 amps. How big is your battery? A pair of
Trojan J305H 6V batteries have a 20 Ahr rating of 335 Ahrs and weigh 97
lbs each. The 75 Ahr rating is 117 MINUTES. Then the battery is
COMPLETELY discharged (10.5V).
My SSB radio requires 30 amps transmitting. With the other loads in the
boat ( fans, lights etc.) the load approaches 50 amps. I limit transmit
time to 10 minutes in order not to have to run the engine to recharge
the battery ( I still have to run the engine twice a day to recharge)
I have tried 12 volt blenders. They use about 125 watts or 10 amps. They
don't work very well for making frozen drinks with ice cubes. A good
120v blender uses about 720 watts or 6 amps.
So getting 12 volt appliances is not an answer. If you want a lot of
"convenience" toys, get a generator.

Kelton
s/v Isle Escape

Frank Taylor, Jr. wrote:
Wow,

Some of you guys are really getting into the complexity of this
problem
but
there may be a much simpler solution. I think we all agree that it is
rather inefficient to use an inverter to convert DC power to AC power.
Why
not just convert your AC appliances to DC?

No, I don't mean, pull them apart and get out the soldering iron and
spare
parts from the heathkits you had when you were a kid. Just go to the
travel
shop at your local truck stop. You'll see that there are all types of
12
volt appliances available from blenders to electric blankets and yes,
even
hair dryers. Some of these appliances are starting to also show up in
boating stores as well. If you do a web search, you can find some
too.

Of course, I don't think you'll find a 12 volt AC unit. You'll may
still
need a generator if you want to stay cool.

good luck


"John Tretick" wrote in message
...

Hello Group,
+
I have a 24" Bayliner Cierra 2001 and I am interested in using AC when
not
at port. No place to install a generator, so I'm thinking an invertor

with

a batterstore. Possibly increasing my batteries to 3 and wiring in
GFI
circiut to power mixers, inflators , hairdriers, etc.. when I'm
anchored.
Northern tools sells a sealed Marine invertor for 399 its 3000/1500W
which
works for my purposes.. doubt it would run the AC..
but I guess I'd have to get a larger on for that..

Has anyone installed this redundant power source defore? I'm curious
how
long you can run on it without depleting one battery..
Actually thinking about installing a third battery for this purpose.

Thaks,

John

Frank Taylor, Jr. wrote:

If you go to www.hilltoprv.net, you will see that they have all kinds of 12V
appliances for boats and RV's including a 12V DC hair dryer that uses only
168 watts.


It never ceases to amaze me that people want hair dryers on a boat. Few
appliances are as useless as that. Even my wife's lush mop dries quite
quickly when exposed to a moderate breeze & sun and she's recognized
that other women PAY to get what amounts to the "boat" look. Those days
she cares about looking exactly right, we're at a dock anyway, so we
have direct 110.

The original poster had a 24' boat and didn't think he had enough room
for a generator. Doubt he'll have the room for adequate batteries to
support inverter AC at the required levels. Personally, if we 'required'
all those goodies, I'd put a Honda 2000i (or whatever the designation of
the previously mentioned unit) on the back and be done with it.

If I had to persuade my wife or s/o that boating was fun and hairdryers
and such were important to her, I'd do marina hopping first and
increasingly mix anchoring out to get her used to the idea that she
doesn't have to work hard to be absolutely gorgeous.



--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Larry W4CSC wrote:

.... my 1973 Mercedes 220 diesel which is the ideal ham car ....

Thanks. I always wondered why anybody ever bought them. (c:

Thanks for all of the replies on this topic. I think I'll just get a small
inverter and plug it into the
12VDC outlet in the cabin and be happy with that for now. It will suffice
to inflate the tube, and run other things
when I anchor out next season.

Thanks,

John


"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
Frank Taylor, Jr. wrote:

If you go to www.hilltoprv.net, you will see that they have all kinds of
12V
appliances for boats and RV's including a 12V DC hair dryer that uses
only
168 watts.


It never ceases to amaze me that people want hair dryers on a boat. Few
appliances are as useless as that. Even my wife's lush mop dries quite
quickly when exposed to a moderate breeze & sun and she's recognized
that other women PAY to get what amounts to the "boat" look. Those days
she cares about looking exactly right, we're at a dock anyway, so we
have direct 110.

The original poster had a 24' boat and didn't think he had enough room
for a generator. Doubt he'll have the room for adequate batteries to
support inverter AC at the required levels. Personally, if we 'required'
all those goodies, I'd put a Honda 2000i (or whatever the designation of
the previously mentioned unit) on the back and be done with it.

If I had to persuade my wife or s/o that boating was fun and hairdryers
and such were important to her, I'd do marina hopping first and
increasingly mix anchoring out to get her used to the idea that she
doesn't have to work hard to be absolutely gorgeous.



--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/