NE Sailboat wrote:

I sail single handed ,,,,,,,,, it is really really hard.

Really? I find single handing my boat of the same size actually easier,
despite "Strider" being much quicker turning on the helm than your Bristol
32. I don't have to explain things, there's no one in the way when I need
to reach a sheet quickly, nobody ever says, "What?" with that deer in the
headlights look when something needs to be done quickly. It's very relaxing
but I do get bored with the conversation in moderate weather.

Single handing in strong winds is very rewarding. There's enough excitement
that I don't miss the conversation and it's excellent practice and
confidence building for the times you are responsible for other people.
Figuring out how to handle jib sheets and a boat without self tailing
winches and with a helm you can only let go of for seconds is great mental
exercise.

Having a good trained crew than can do everything is easiest, of course.
Being away from the sailing world for several years, I don't know a lot of
people like that and I tend also to take non-sailors because I enjoy
introducing people to the experience. My new crew was getting quite
competent towards the last couple days of the cruise this summer and it was
very enjoyable to just sit there and watch an eager and energetic person "do
this - do that". We're planning a lot more sailing next summer and I don't
think single handing will ever have quite the appeal it did before.

--
Roger Long

Roger ,, I don't think the poster is talking about a day sail. I also
disagree completely with your opinion. Single hand sailing is hard work,
dangerous, lonely, etc. Just leaving whatever mooring, dock you might be
attached to is tough. Unless you have more than two arms?

Then, once released, the project of putting up the main, getting everything
together ,, et all.

And the big issue is the helm! Unless you are the first person on earth who
can be in two places at once. Someone, must steer.

I get very frustrated. One minute I'm pulling on a sheet, next I'm back
resetting the helm

After everything is done, and a course is set, with a steady wind, then
things aren't so bad. But :::: the helm! That rotten helm.

If my boat had a windvane, and the windvane worked, then I suppose I would
be able to take a rest.

At the end of the day .... the docking, mooring. I hate this. I end up
anchoring out most of the time because there is no one to help with dock
lines, etc.

The one area I agree with you on is the self confidence factor. There is a
certain feeling of "I can do it" when you are the only one doing it.

Also,, when I screw up ............. there isn't someone sitting in the
cockpit screaming at me.

I also end up preparing for most trips ahead ... Always knowing I need
more room because I am the only one on board.

I'd rather have a crewmate. Someone to help out.

=====================================
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
NE Sailboat wrote:

I sail single handed ,,,,,,,,, it is really really hard.

Really? I find single handing my boat of the same size actually easier,
despite "Strider" being much quicker turning on the helm than your Bristol
32. I don't have to explain things, there's no one in the way when I need
to reach a sheet quickly, nobody ever says, "What?" with that deer in the
headlights look when something needs to be done quickly. It's very
relaxing but I do get bored with the conversation in moderate weather.

Single handing in strong winds is very rewarding. There's enough
excitement that I don't miss the conversation and it's excellent practice
and confidence building for the times you are responsible for other
people. Figuring out how to handle jib sheets and a boat without self
tailing winches and with a helm you can only let go of for seconds is
great mental exercise.

Having a good trained crew than can do everything is easiest, of course.
Being away from the sailing world for several years, I don't know a lot of
people like that and I tend also to take non-sailors because I enjoy
introducing people to the experience. My new crew was getting quite
competent towards the last couple days of the cruise this summer and it
was very enjoyable to just sit there and watch an eager and energetic
person "do this - do that". We're planning a lot more sailing next summer
and I don't think single handing will ever have quite the appeal it did
before.

--
Roger Long

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:gXneh.61$Li6.56@trndny03...
Roger ,, I don't think the poster is talking about a day sail. I also
disagree completely with your opinion. Single hand sailing is hard work,
dangerous, lonely, etc. Just leaving whatever mooring, dock you might be
attached to is tough. Unless you have more than two arms?

I think you're right that leaving and returning are the hardest... that's
very much dependent on the conditions and also the size of the boat (bigger
typically is harder).

I disagree that it's that much harder, especially when you're relieved of
the people underfoot when trying to do something. It's certainly not lonely.
It can be dangerous, but that's dependent upon how you treat it.

Then, once released, the project of putting up the main, getting
everything together ,, et all.

Ummm... autohelm?

And the big issue is the helm! Unless you are the first person on earth
who can be in two places at once. Someone, must steer.

I get very frustrated. One minute I'm pulling on a sheet, next I'm back
resetting the helm

Invest in an autohelm. I have a remote for mine. I can be on the bow and
drive.

After everything is done, and a course is set, with a steady wind, then
things aren't so bad. But :::: the helm! That rotten helm.

If my boat had a windvane, and the windvane worked, then I suppose I would
be able to take a rest.

At the end of the day .... the docking, mooring. I hate this. I end up
anchoring out most of the time because there is no one to help with dock
lines, etc.

Takes practice/is never perfect/is highly dependent on adverse conditions.

The one area I agree with you on is the self confidence factor. There is
a certain feeling of "I can do it" when you are the only one doing it.

Also,, when I screw up ............. there isn't someone sitting in the
cockpit screaming at me.

I also end up preparing for most trips ahead ... Always knowing I need
more room because I am the only one on board.

I'd rather have a crewmate. Someone to help out.

I'd rather have a competent crewmate. Incompetents make things worse than
single handing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Some of the older single handle great sailor like Moitessier, Hasler, James
and many others appear to have made good with average size sailboat.
Moitessier suggested that the ideal length for around the world voyaging is
around 32 to 34 feet.
He claims that it has better control in heavy weather sailing.
Although these suggestions were made with the traditional sailboat design
from 1960 to 1980 it gives me food for though.
I got involved in 40 foot waves with a 27 feet sailboat. One of the raison
I think I made it is because the boat and I were like a single cork going up
and down the waves. I do not know if I would have been able to make it with
a boat in the 40 foot range?

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:gXneh.61$Li6.56@trndny03...
Roger ,, I don't think the poster is talking about a day sail. I also
disagree completely with your opinion. Single hand sailing is hard work,
dangerous, lonely, etc. Just leaving whatever mooring, dock you might be
attached to is tough. Unless you have more than two arms?

I think you're right that leaving and returning are the hardest... that's
very much dependent on the conditions and also the size of the boat
(bigger typically is harder).

I disagree that it's that much harder, especially when you're relieved of
the people underfoot when trying to do something. It's certainly not
lonely. It can be dangerous, but that's dependent upon how you treat it.

Then, once released, the project of putting up the main, getting
everything together ,, et all.

Ummm... autohelm?

And the big issue is the helm! Unless you are the first person on earth
who can be in two places at once. Someone, must steer.

I get very frustrated. One minute I'm pulling on a sheet, next I'm back
resetting the helm

Invest in an autohelm. I have a remote for mine. I can be on the bow and
drive.

After everything is done, and a course is set, with a steady wind, then
things aren't so bad. But :::: the helm! That rotten helm.

If my boat had a windvane, and the windvane worked, then I suppose I
would be able to take a rest.

At the end of the day .... the docking, mooring. I hate this. I end up
anchoring out most of the time because there is no one to help with dock
lines, etc.

Takes practice/is never perfect/is highly dependent on adverse conditions.

The one area I agree with you on is the self confidence factor. There is
a certain feeling of "I can do it" when you are the only one doing it.

Also,, when I screw up ............. there isn't someone sitting in the
cockpit screaming at me.

I also end up preparing for most trips ahead ... Always knowing I need
more room because I am the only one on board.

I'd rather have a crewmate. Someone to help out.

I'd rather have a competent crewmate. Incompetents make things worse than
single handing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"I got involved in 40 foot waves with a 27 feet sailboat. ..."

I don't believe this for one moment. 40' waves? And you were in a 27'
boat?

Total nonsense.

================================================== =========

If you are to post, at least post something rational

================================================== ====



wrote in message
...
Some of the older single handle great sailor like Moitessier, Hasler,
James and many others appear to have made good with average size sailboat.
Moitessier suggested that the ideal length for around the world voyaging
is around 32 to 34 feet.
He claims that it has better control in heavy weather sailing.
Although these suggestions were made with the traditional sailboat design
from 1960 to 1980 it gives me food for though.
I got involved in 40 foot waves with a 27 feet sailboat. One of the
raison I think I made it is because the boat and I were like a single cork
going up and down the waves. I do not know if I would have been able to
make it with a boat in the 40 foot range?

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:gXneh.61$Li6.56@trndny03...
Roger ,, I don't think the poster is talking about a day sail. I also
disagree completely with your opinion. Single hand sailing is hard
work, dangerous, lonely, etc. Just leaving whatever mooring, dock you
might be attached to is tough. Unless you have more than two arms?

I think you're right that leaving and returning are the hardest... that's
very much dependent on the conditions and also the size of the boat
(bigger typically is harder).

I disagree that it's that much harder, especially when you're relieved of
the people underfoot when trying to do something. It's certainly not
lonely. It can be dangerous, but that's dependent upon how you treat it.

Then, once released, the project of putting up the main, getting
everything together ,, et all.

Ummm... autohelm?

And the big issue is the helm! Unless you are the first person on earth
who can be in two places at once. Someone, must steer.

I get very frustrated. One minute I'm pulling on a sheet, next I'm back
resetting the helm

Invest in an autohelm. I have a remote for mine. I can be on the bow and
drive.

After everything is done, and a course is set, with a steady wind, then
things aren't so bad. But :::: the helm! That rotten helm.

If my boat had a windvane, and the windvane worked, then I suppose I
would be able to take a rest.

At the end of the day .... the docking, mooring. I hate this. I end
up anchoring out most of the time because there is no one to help with
dock lines, etc.

Takes practice/is never perfect/is highly dependent on adverse
conditions.

The one area I agree with you on is the self confidence factor. There
is a certain feeling of "I can do it" when you are the only one doing
it.

Also,, when I screw up ............. there isn't someone sitting in the
cockpit screaming at me.

I also end up preparing for most trips ahead ... Always knowing I need
more room because I am the only one on board.

I'd rather have a crewmate. Someone to help out.

I'd rather have a competent crewmate. Incompetents make things worse than
single handing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

NE Sailboat wrote:
"I got involved in 40 foot waves with a 27 feet sailboat. ..."

I don't believe this for one moment. 40' waves? And you were in a 27'
boat?

Total nonsense.

================================================== =========

If you are to post, at least post something rational

================================================== ====



Not really. One of the most fun/exciting times sailing was me, my cow
dog, a six pack, and my 15' sprit sail dory.............. oh, and 25'
seas. Okay, we call em swells here. How know 25'? USCG Sea State and in
the bottom it was twice the length of myh unstayed fir mast.

Might want to ask where the guy in the 27' boat does his sailing.

NOw I did not mention other conditions but the 25' seas sure sounds
grande, no?

I am not asking you to believe it nor to I have to prove anything, I have
nothing to gain from it.
What I can say it that you better take some Gravol before or at the
beginning of the storm.
The other point is you better be well anchored to your cockpit and forget
about using the head.
BTW where to you use your boat?

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

NE Sailboat wrote:
"I got involved in 40 foot waves with a 27 feet sailboat. ..."

I don't believe this for one moment. 40' waves? And you were in a 27'
boat?

Total nonsense.

================================================== =========

If you are to post, at least post something rational

================================================== ====



Not really. One of the most fun/exciting times sailing was me, my cow
dog, a six pack, and my 15' sprit sail dory.............. oh, and 25'
seas. Okay, we call em swells here. How know 25'? USCG Sea State and in
the bottom it was twice the length of myh unstayed fir mast.

Might want to ask where the guy in the 27' boat does his sailing.

NOw I did not mention other conditions but the 25' seas sure sounds
grande, no?

NE Sailboat wrote:
"I got involved in 40 foot waves with a 27 feet sailboat. ..."

I don't believe this for one moment. 40' waves? And you were in a
27' boat?

The waves were 20 feet. How do I know this? During the time that I was
researching sailing vessel casualties and working on the project to help
write the stability regulations for sailing school vessels, the accuracy of
wind and sea state reports were a significant issue so I looked into these
questions quite a bit.

There are solid physical reasons why even the most experience sailors
overestimate wave heights by about 100%. These have to do with the motion
on the wave face that makes the local "down", or direction a pendulum would
point, be perpendicular to the face of the wave instead of towards the
center of the earth. This is one of the illusions that promotes
seasickness.

There is a fairly precise method of measuring wave height. Even knowing all
these things, I look at waves I've just measured as six feet and I could
still swear that they are 12. In fact, a very reliable way to measure wave
height is to simply take your best guess and cut it in half.

--
Roger Long

Roger ,,, look at the buoy reports .. I can't seem to remember off my head
but some web page has the reports from the offshore buoys. Such info as
wave height, wind, water temperature, etc.

This might be a weather report site ???????? I am going to look...

If the sailor was on a 27' boat and the waves were 40' high .... that is
over 4 stories high.

If he is going into the waves? What if he is going with them? Holy ****
,,, that is one huge surf ride.


=====================
"Roger Long" wrote in message
news
NE Sailboat wrote:
"I got involved in 40 foot waves with a 27 feet sailboat. ..."

I don't believe this for one moment. 40' waves? And you were in a
27' boat?

The waves were 20 feet. How do I know this? During the time that I was
researching sailing vessel casualties and working on the project to help
write the stability regulations for sailing school vessels, the accuracy
of wind and sea state reports were a significant issue so I looked into
these questions quite a bit.

There are solid physical reasons why even the most experience sailors
overestimate wave heights by about 100%. These have to do with the
motion on the wave face that makes the local "down", or direction a
pendulum would point, be perpendicular to the face of the wave instead of
towards the center of the earth. This is one of the illusions that
promotes seasickness.

There is a fairly precise method of measuring wave height. Even knowing
all these things, I look at waves I've just measured as six feet and I
could still swear that they are 12. In fact, a very reliable way to
measure wave height is to simply take your best guess and cut it in half.

--
Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
There are solid physical reasons why even the most experience sailors
overestimate wave heights by about 100%.

Roger,
It may be true that some overestimate wave heights by this much, but it
is hardly universal. For moderate waves, I am quite confident in my
estimates. It's really quite simple. If you know the height of your
eye above the water as you sit in the cockpit (for instance, mine is
just a hair over 6') then if the wave top is above the horizon while you
are in the trough, it is over 6', if it doesn't, it is under 6'. By
adjusting for how much it appears to be higher/lower than the horizon,
you can then get a very good estimate for waves up to about twice your
base height. Beyond that, it becomes more difficult and the wave
heights become more of a guesstimate than an estimate as it is difficult
to really tell if it is even with the spreaders or how much above/below
them the waves really are.

Note that using this method, you also have to adjust a bit depending on
the amount of heel and whether you are sitting on the high or low side
of the cockpit.

p.s.
Don't forget that all waves have two heights, the one we write down in
the log and the one we tell about at the bar in the story that begins
"No ****, you won't believe....". Could this be the source of your
assertion that most sailors overestimate by 100%?