Armond Perretta wrote:

I don't know your source for this, Glenn, but I have pretty much
always heard the figure of 50 pounds quoted. Then you do the ratio
math from there.

Without looking it up I think Wally Ross has some tables for this (my
sailing books are still in boxes 3 moths after the move to a new
house).


The 35 comes from Brion Toss's book and a couple of articles I found on
the Harkne and Lewmar sites on sizing winches. I thought it was a bit
low myself. That's why I asked. Brion is a big Harken booster and
probably got that number from them but they are out to sell winches so I
guess you need to take their recommendations with a grain of salt. :-)

I believe I am going with Harken as I already have a Harken 44 electric
for the halyards and reefing lines. My choices therefore are between a
56 at about $2600 each and 55 lbs of force and a 64 at $3600 each and 45
lbs force.

The pressure is really on now and the boat bucks are just flying out of
my wallet. Harken usually raises prices in November so I need to make a
decision by the time I leave the Annapolis show.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:07:20 -0400, "Armond Perretta"
wrote:


Without looking it up I think Wally Ross has some tables for this (my
sailing books are still in boxes 3 moths after the move to a new house).

Anybody know if Wally Ross did or contributed to any other sailing
books? I am lucky enough to own a first edition of "Sail Power" (1975)
and it is the best book I've ever read on the subject, particularly as
I have a '73 cruiser-racer, and all the latest state of the art gear
pictured in Ross's book looks like my deck! G

Anyway, a great and still-relevant book, even if most of the racing
tweaks have been superseded by rule/class changes and gear
improvements. Read Ross's book, "Heavy Weather Sailing" and a copy of
Don Street's "The Ocean Sailing Yacht" and you won't go far wrong in
my opinion.

R.

If you luff up a bit that will take considerable load off of the sheet.
Also what is the basis for you calculations. I would think that 35*86 =
3000 # force. That in my book would be a knock down.

Most marine catalogs suggest power ratios for various size boats and rigs.
You can also get a double handle or one with a knob (1 1/2 handles) for more
power.


"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
...


Armond Perretta wrote:
Rick & Linda Bernard wrote:

... I have never heard anyone say, "Geez this winch
is too powerful."


Nor have I. I have, however, heard several people say: "Geez, this
winch is
too expensive."

Tell me about it!!

While on the subject what do you guys feel is the maximum force you can
put on a winch handle? The "generally accepted" formula for
determining winch ratio is (SA*6)/35 assuming 35 pounds being the
maximum force. With a 500 sq.ft. foretriangle that works out to 86:1.
That is a $5,000 winch!!! A 64 cost about $3500 which is the limit of
my buget but the handle force would be 48 lb.

I'm thinking I may just head up a little, trim and fall off and save
$3-4K. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
...

While on the subject what do you guys feel is the maximum force you can
put on a winch handle?

50 lbs or so for a good sized male. Less for average femals and smaller
males.


The "generally accepted" formula for
determining winch ratio is (SA*6)/35 assuming 35 pounds being the
maximum force. With a 500 sq.ft. foretriangle that works out to 86:1

Naaah, somethings wrong with your math or something.

Is that the size of your largest sail or the 100% fore triangle area?
What's going to be your largest foresail (either J% or sq. ft)?

I can make a recommendation based on that - and how big is your wife!

--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

ospam (Ilv2sl) wrote in message ...
I'm going to replace the old wire main halyard winch, on my 35' sloop, with a
line winch. Just wondering if there is a need for a 2sp. winch, for halyard use
only. Other 2sp. winches are available for lifting, hoisting aloft, etc.
Thanks to all.

Ahoy Captain:

I had two speed on my 32' cruising sloop and found it good. One speed to
get it up, 2nd to really draw it tight.

Allan
"Damn the expense.....give the canary another seed."

Ilv2sl wrote:

I'm going to replace the old wire main halyard winch, on my 35' sloop, with a
line winch. Just wondering if there is a need for a 2sp. winch, for halyard use
only. Other 2sp. winches are available for lifting, hoisting aloft, etc.
Thanks to all.


Why replace the winch? Our old halyard winch is for wire and works just
fine for line. If it isn't working right, a quick cleaning may be all
that's needed.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Why replace the winch? Our old halyard winch is for wire and works just
fine for line. If it isn't working right, a quick cleaning may be all
that's needed.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)

The reason I want to replace the reel winch with a winch for line, is to be
able to raise the main faster, and being able to lower it easier, rather than
letting go the brake. Also, not having to worry about the winch handle breaking
a wrist, if someone leaves it in and releases the brake, or the brake fails.

My question should have been, Has anyone with a 1sp. main halyard winch, found
they would like to have a 2sp winch. Just refering to mailsail luff tensioning,
not hoisting aloft, etc.
I have both a Barient 16 ss 1sp. winch, and a Lewmar 16 chrome 2sp, and have to
decide which one to install, and which to sell. The Barient is in excellent
condition, and the Lwemar is new.
So, do any of you 1sp. users feel a 2 sp. would be the way to go?
Thanks

Ilv2sl wrote:

The reason I want to replace the reel winch with a winch for line, is to be
able to raise the main faster, and being able to lower it easier, rather than
letting go the brake. Also, not having to worry about the winch handle breaking
a wrist, if someone leaves it in and releases the brake, or the brake fails.

My question should have been, Has anyone with a 1sp. main halyard winch, found
they would like to have a 2sp winch. Just refering to mailsail luff tensioning,
not hoisting aloft, etc.
I have both a Barient 16 ss 1sp. winch, and a Lewmar 16 chrome 2sp, and have to
decide which one to install, and which to sell. The Barient is in excellent
condition, and the Lwemar is new.
So, do any of you 1sp. users feel a 2 sp. would be the way to go?
Thanks


If one of the companies is out of business, I'd keep the other. We have
old Barlow winches that we can still get parts for, but I worry about
when/if I run out of what I have in the "junk box". (I think I replaced
one pawl in 10 years.)

I don't know Barient, but Lewmar seems to be a going concern, so with
what little I know, I'd go for the Lewmar. That it's 2 speed is a plus,
though that's hardly needed for a 16.

One thing about halyard winches: Since they're mounted on the mast, you
can put your full weight into cranking.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

It doesn't take that much force to tension the main luff. And in any
case, I prefer a separate cunningham. I use a 4 part tackle on the
cunningham in my Tartan 30.
--

On 15 Sep 2003 23:58:55 GMT, in message

ospam (Ilv2sl) wrote:

My question should have been, Has anyone with a 1sp. main halyard winch, found
they would like to have a 2sp winch. Just refering to mailsail luff tensioning,
not hoisting aloft, etc.
I have both a Barient 16 ss 1sp. winch, and a Lewmar 16 chrome 2sp, and have to
decide which one to install, and which to sell. The Barient is in excellent
condition, and the Lwemar is new.
So, do any of you 1sp. users feel a 2 sp. would be the way to go?

I have a 35 footer with E=39.25' for the hoist of the main. I find a
single speed direct drive winch quite adequate to the task with an
advantage of about 10:1. Then again, I also find it quite adequate for
hoisting my 180 pound son to the masthead.

If both your winches have the same ultimate advantage (16:1?) then
there's probably no bonus to having the faster speed on the two speed
winch unless you are grinding your sail up the mast rather than hand
hoisting it nearly to the top.

Ryk

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