In article ,
Don W wrote:

We're going to purchase a new headsail roller furler for our Irwin C
38, and know very little about the pluses and minuses of the various
units.

Which units are the best for long term cruising, considering overall
quality of construction, and ease of repair if something does go
wrong?

Right now, we're looking at Harken, Profurl, and Alado Nautica. Are
there other brands we should consider?

If you consider price, ease of maintenance, longevity in a salt water
environment, etc, which unit do you think is the best overall value?

I put CDI Flexible Furlers on our last two boats. We've had zero
problems in over two decades' use. They've always dealt fairly with me,
even recommending against my buying something they didn't think was
appropriate for our application.
http://www.sailcdi.com/ffmain.htm

Dead simple, nearly fool- and bullet-proof and easy to use, with
virtually nothing to go wrong, particularly for cruisers.

Their warrantee tells it all "[includes] All hazards at sea, including
winching against obstructions, unseamanlike use, and dismastings. This
warranty remains in force for charter and other commercial operations.
No maintenance is required to keep the warranty in force.". [Hmmm, used
to be a lifetime warrantee, but I can read between the lines to what
people have done and tried to claim.]

It won't allow racing-speed sail changes, but that's not a consideration
for cruisers. We choose a sail in the morning and keep it up the rest of
the day, furling if necessary.

That it's also probably the least expensive in that size is an
additional plus. I installed both, BTW. Was trivial except for the
measurement.

Note: If you get the FF9, I suggest ordering it direct from them,
uncoiled, as even the FF6/7 is a BEAR to straighten. If you get the 7,
get the 6' coil and straighten it immediately upon receipt. You'll
probably want the bearing, though we haven't needed it as I have only
winched it in once. It rolls so easily that a simple tug on the line
does it.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Hi Jere,

We would for sure need an FF9 because our headsail
luff is ~52.2 ft. This means the FF9 would be
just barely big enough since it is for a maximum
headstay length of 53 ft.

I'll take a look at them.

Don W.

Jere Lull wrote:
In article ,
Don W wrote:


We're going to purchase a new headsail roller furler for our Irwin C
38, and know very little about the pluses and minuses of the various
units.

Which units are the best for long term cruising, considering overall
quality of construction, and ease of repair if something does go
wrong?

Right now, we're looking at Harken, Profurl, and Alado Nautica. Are
there other brands we should consider?

If you consider price, ease of maintenance, longevity in a salt water
environment, etc, which unit do you think is the best overall value?


I put CDI Flexible Furlers on our last two boats. We've had zero
problems in over two decades' use. They've always dealt fairly with me,
even recommending against my buying something they didn't think was
appropriate for our application.
http://www.sailcdi.com/ffmain.htm

Dead simple, nearly fool- and bullet-proof and easy to use, with
virtually nothing to go wrong, particularly for cruisers.

Their warrantee tells it all "[includes] All hazards at sea, including
winching against obstructions, unseamanlike use, and dismastings. This
warranty remains in force for charter and other commercial operations.
No maintenance is required to keep the warranty in force.". [Hmmm, used
to be a lifetime warrantee, but I can read between the lines to what
people have done and tried to claim.]

It won't allow racing-speed sail changes, but that's not a consideration
for cruisers. We choose a sail in the morning and keep it up the rest of
the day, furling if necessary.

That it's also probably the least expensive in that size is an
additional plus. I installed both, BTW. Was trivial except for the
measurement.

Note: If you get the FF9, I suggest ordering it direct from them,
uncoiled, as even the FF6/7 is a BEAR to straighten. If you get the 7,
get the 6' coil and straighten it immediately upon receipt. You'll
probably want the bearing, though we haven't needed it as I have only
winched it in once. It rolls so easily that a simple tug on the line
does it.

"Don W" wrote
..
Hi Jere,

We would for sure need an FF9 because our headsail
luff is ~52.2 ft. This means the FF9 would be
just barely big enough since it is for a maximum
headstay length of 53 ft.

I'll take a look at them.

Don W.

Don,
Shipping is a factor with the large CDI units. Here is an excerpt from the
CDI site:
--------------------------------------------
Shipping Options:
UPS delivery: The FF1 through FF7 can be shipped via UPS. The luff extrusion
is coiled in a 40" ( 50" for FF7) hoop and will require a straightening
process requiring 3 people. You must follow the straightening directions on
the box or the luff won't come straight. You will need to cut the bands on
the coil within a day or two of receipt.

Air freight delivery: All Flexible Furlers (including the FF7.0 and 9.0) can
be shipped via airfreight in a 6' coil. If you uncoil the hoop within a day
of receipt, no straightening process is necessary. Air freight costs are
approximately $100 when sent to a commercial address and approximately $120
when sent to a residential address. Air Freight shipments take 4 days.
Available within the continental US only.

Motorfreight delivery: (Not available everywhere in the US) All units can be
shipped in the flat (not coiled). The advantage to this is that is requires
no straightening. Shipping costs will depend on destination. Available in
most of the continental US and Canada.
---------------------------------------------

Straightening units that have been coiled for some time is not easy - You
need a lawn near the boat where you can drive in some stakes that will hold
the foil straight while exposed to the sun. For the larger units, much
better to have them shipped straight, but this adds to cost.

We used CDI furlers on several local 22-27ft boats using up to FF6/7 size.
They ARE very simple and don't give many problems.

BUT, with due respect to Jere's experience, we felt they were great for lake
or light coastal use, but would not recommend them for offshore use. The
people that make them ARE easy to deal with and we sold a lot of their FF4
units for 22-24 footers.

Our experience: We did have lufftape pull out of PVC foil on one unit and
under heavy load, the flat sections, unlike round aluminum foils, do twist.
Changing or removing sail is inconvenient in that you have to go to the bow,
attach a temporary halyard extension and then haul the sail down. In heavy
seas, not the greatest place to be!

Keep up the research - It's great to consider all options!

GBM

BTW - The pyacht site is a good place to compare pricing:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?B21A1288D

In article ,
"GBM" wrote:

Straightening units that have been coiled for some time is not easy

I made the mistake of getting our FF6 early and leaving it coiled until
Spring ;-) I DID eventually get it mostly straight, but that's why I
suggested he get his shipped flat. The FF6 is *considerably* beefier
than the FF4/5. The FF9 specs indicate one serious extrusion.

BUT, with due respect to Jere's experience, we felt they were great
for lake or light coastal use, but would not recommend them for
offshore use. The people that make them ARE easy to deal with and we
sold a lot of their FF4 units for 22-24 footers.

We have the FF6, the next size up from the 4 and one down from the 9,
and have had no problems in a decade with a big genny, often furled. We
are coastal, but I wouldn't consider we're "light", as we do 60-80 days
a year, and we've been through some "stuff" as a result.

Remember too, their warrantee includes charters and mishandling, so it's
covered anyway.

Our experience: We did have lufftape pull out of PVC foil on one unit
and under heavy load, the flat sections, unlike round aluminum foils,
do twist.

I haven't seen a luff that didn't twist a bit, including the charter
boats I've crewed, but it's tougher to see with a round luff. That you
do "a lot" of the smaller units and can point to only one failure
sounds like a pretty good track record. I see more failures on our dock
each year amongst the various types.

Changing or removing sail is inconvenient in that you have to go to the bow,
attach a temporary halyard extension and then haul the sail down. In heavy
seas, not the greatest place to be!

VERY true! That's why it's a good cruising sail, as we either put a
smaller sail up early, or reef for the duration.

All luffs require someone at the bow to change out sails. The primary
difference is that temporary halyard -- and we could lead *that* back
to our cockpit for the other crew member to winch in with if we really
had to change in nasty conditions. (via the chute downhaul block.)


--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Riggers will tell you CDI are a piece of crap only because they hate
installing them. In actuality, users seem to like them.
Gordon
"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Don W wrote:

We're going to purchase a new headsail roller furler for our Irwin C
38, and know very little about the pluses and minuses of the various
units.

Which units are the best for long term cruising, considering overall
quality of construction, and ease of repair if something does go
wrong?

Right now, we're looking at Harken, Profurl, and Alado Nautica. Are
there other brands we should consider?

If you consider price, ease of maintenance, longevity in a salt water
environment, etc, which unit do you think is the best overall value?

I put CDI Flexible Furlers on our last two boats. We've had zero
problems in over two decades' use. They've always dealt fairly with me,
even recommending against my buying something they didn't think was
appropriate for our application.
http://www.sailcdi.com/ffmain.htm

Dead simple, nearly fool- and bullet-proof and easy to use, with
virtually nothing to go wrong, particularly for cruisers.

Their warrantee tells it all "[includes] All hazards at sea, including
winching against obstructions, unseamanlike use, and dismastings. This
warranty remains in force for charter and other commercial operations.
No maintenance is required to keep the warranty in force.". [Hmmm, used
to be a lifetime warrantee, but I can read between the lines to what
people have done and tried to claim.]

It won't allow racing-speed sail changes, but that's not a consideration
for cruisers. We choose a sail in the morning and keep it up the rest of
the day, furling if necessary.

That it's also probably the least expensive in that size is an
additional plus. I installed both, BTW. Was trivial except for the
measurement.

Note: If you get the FF9, I suggest ordering it direct from them,
uncoiled, as even the FF6/7 is a BEAR to straighten. If you get the 7,
get the 6' coil and straighten it immediately upon receipt. You'll
probably want the bearing, though we haven't needed it as I have only
winched it in once. It rolls so easily that a simple tug on the line
does it.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

In article ,
"Gordon" wrote:

Riggers will tell you CDI are a piece of crap only because they hate
installing them. In actuality, users seem to like them.

I suspect riggers hate them because they don't do the work! All of the
ones I've seen were owner-installed.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Jere Lull wrote:

In article ,
"Gordon" wrote:

Riggers will tell you CDI are a piece of crap only because they
hate installing them. In actuality, users seem to like them.

I suspect riggers hate them because they don't do the work! All of
the ones I've seen were owner-installed.

We installed a CDI FF6 on our Irwin 28 which we trailer sail. We
replaced a CDI Reefer II which wasn't compatable with trailer sailing.
It used alumimum sections for the foil which had a tendency to bend
when we stepped the mast. We didn't uncoil the new one immediately and
did have some trouble staightening it. It's still not prefect but seems
to work just fine. Installation was very easy. Jim

--