--

Roger Long



"Wayne.B" wrote

Sailing single handed in a strong breeze does not excuse anyone from
seamanlike obligations or responsibilities

Why is there no comment about being 228 feet long and owned by someone
richer than God not excusing an operator from seamanlike obligations
or responsibilities?

(the radio) could/should have been readily at hand and turned on

The radio is a back up. Contact is not necessary for the rules of the
road to be in force. Radio break, not all boats have radios,
operating a vessel in this situation with the expectation that you
don't have to observe the rules of the road unless you get a radio
call is neither seamanlike nor responsible.

, sail could/should have been shortened to a more managable level,
an
autopilot could/should be available when single or short handing.

Come on, that's like saying all powerboats should be operated slower
because it will give everyone more time to react to crossing
situations. My vessel was quite managable. It's not that I couldn't
get the radio but that it was easier to simply run off. I ended up
closer to Ram Island than I would have liked but I still cleared it.


You have some dangerous preconceptions.

Look, this is not about me. I handled it smoothly and easily. I
expect this kind of "blind on autopilot" behavior from fishing
vessels. Their crews are dead tired and their world is crumbling
around them as they try to keep up with mortgages. I also expect it
from large vessels that I selfishly don't want dodging every small
yacht among the obstructions of Maine, even if they aren't in the
channel.

My post was about the fact that a no expense spared vessel, presumably
with crew of similar caliber to the paint job, whose Captain and crew
had just spent two weeks tied to the dock in Portland's most luxurious
spot, could behave this way with no way of assessing skill level,
radio functioning (or even existence), etc. aboard my vessel. The
rules of the road don't require them to think about these things, they
simply require them to punch 2 -3 degrees into the autopilot for five
minutes at the appropriate time and then back. There is nothing in
the rules of the road that says they don't have to do this unless
there is radio contact.

If I had been closely obstructed by the shore or had a sheet jammed in
a winch, I certainly would have made a radio call. I could have done
it but it was easier to just divert it a way that made it obvious I
was going to keep clear. I handled it properly and differently than
you might have but THAT'S NOT THE DAMN POINT!

"Wayne.B" wrote

Sailing single handed in a strong breeze does not excuse anyone from
seamanlike obligations or responsibilities

Why is there no comment about being 228 feet long and owned by someone
richer than God not excusing an operator from seamanlike obligations
or responsibilities?

(the radio) could/should have been readily at hand and turned on

The radio is a back up. Contact is not necessary for the rules of the
road to be in force. Radio break, not all boats have radios,
operating a vessel in this situation with the expectation that you
don't have to observe the rules of the road unless you get a radio
call is neither seamanlike nor responsible.

, sail could/should have been shortened to a more managable level,
an
autopilot could/should be available when single or short handing.

Come on, that's like saying all powerboats should be operated slower
because it will give everyone more time to react to crossing
situations. My vessel was quite managable. It's not that I couldn't
get the radio but that it was easier to simply run off. I ended up
closer to Ram Island than I would have liked but I still cleared it.


You have some dangerous preconceptions.

Look, this is not about me. I handled it smoothly and easily. I
expect this kind of "blind on autopilot" behavior from fishing
vessels. Their crews are dead tired and their world is crumbling
around them as they try to keep up with mortgages. I also expect it
from large vessels that I selfishly don't want dodging every small
yacht among the obstructions of Maine, even if they aren't in the
channel.

My post was about the fact that a no expense spared vessel, presumably
with crew of similar caliber to the paint job, whose Captain and crew
had just spent two weeks tied to the dock in Portland's most luxurious
spot, could behave this way with no way of assessing skill level,
radio functioning (or even existence), etc. aboard my vessel. The
rules of the road don't require them to think about these things, they
simply require them to punch 2 -3 degrees into the autopilot for five
minutes at the appropriate time and then back. There is nothing in
the rules of the road that says they don't have to do this unless
there is radio contact.

If I had been closely obstructed by the shore or had a sheet jammed in
a winch, I certainly would have made a radio call. I could have done
it but it was easier to just divert it a way that made it obvious I
was going to keep clear. I handled it properly and differently than
you might have but THAT'S NOT THE DAMN POINT!

--

Roger Long

wrote in message
oups.com...
What part of Roger's explanation did you miss?

The strong winds?

The fact that he was operating single handed?

The fact that he had the right of way but was bullied into giving it
up?

Just exactly when is a singlehanded sailor in a strong wind expected to
drop the sheet or the steering apparatus to pick up, turn on, tune in
the correct channel, and broadcast a radio call on a handheld radio?
When some rich asshole in a big yacht is about to run him over, I
guess.

That is totally ignorant. You should be ashamed of yourself.

So let me get this straight, the rules don't apply to sailors a) in strong
winds, b) operating single handed ? If the situation calls for use of a
radio and the skipper is not capable of doing that because of situational
overload because he choose to go single handed, perhaps he was not capable
of operating single handed safely. I suspect that Roger is more competent
than that and wouldn't hide behind that lame response.

Just to be clear .... he didn't have Right-of-way. You may be the last
person in this thread to know this. He was the Stand On vessel. And yes,
it sounds like the power vessel failed to make sufficient course / speed
correction.

Sounds like you are proposing a new day signal for "Caution, skipper can't
handle this vessle", kinda of like "Not Under Commad" but with an
incompetance slant to it.


Why don't you do a google search and look up some of Roger's previous
postings? He isn't exactly a rookie...


Capt. Bill wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:59:32 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Yeah, I could have called him on the radio but the rules of the road
were written to make it possible to deal with something this simple
without having to yack and negotiate on the air. Having to make a
radio call in a case like this means someone already isn't observing
the rules.

Let me get this straight, you didn't use the radio because you
shouldn't have to if some one is following the rules, but at the same
time you state they weren't following the rules and you still didn't
use the radio.

So at what point would you use your hand held radio? After they had
run you over to call for help?

In article ,
Gerald wrote:
Just to be clear .... he didn't have Right-of-way. You may be the last
person in this thread to know this. He was the Stand On vessel. And yes,
it sounds like the power vessel failed to make sufficient course / speed
correction.

In fact, I'd rather be the burdened vessel. It's easier, because I
know I have to do something.

Sounds like you are proposing a new day signal for "Caution, skipper can't
handle this vessle", kinda of like "Not Under Commad" but with an
incompetance slant to it.

I suggest 1 prolonged, 2 short every 2 minutes for the duration of the
trip. :-)




--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Is a VHF radio required on a sailing vessel? Forgive my ignorance; I have
a number of smaller boats, and don't own a VHF.

My understanding of the situation is that it was Roger's OBLIGATION to
maintain his course and speed. Not to use (or even own!) a radio, not to
have a working autopilot, not to do ANYTHING else, until collision appeared
imminent. THEN he is obligated to take evasive action, as he did.

What am I missing?

Sal's Dad

What part of Roger's explanation did you miss?

The strong winds?

The fact that he was operating single handed?

The fact that he had the right of way but was bullied into giving it
up?

Just exactly when is a singlehanded sailor in a strong wind expected to
drop the sheet or the steering apparatus to pick up, turn on, tune in
the correct channel, and broadcast a radio call on a handheld radio?
When some rich asshole in a big yacht is about to run him over, I
guess.

That is totally ignorant. You should be ashamed of yourself.

So let me get this straight, the rules don't apply to sailors a) in strong
winds, b) operating single handed ? If the situation calls for use of a
radio and the skipper is not capable of doing that because of situational
overload because he choose to go single handed, perhaps he was not capable
of operating single handed safely. I suspect that Roger is more competent
than that and wouldn't hide behind that lame response.

Just to be clear .... he didn't have Right-of-way. You may be the last
person in this thread to know this. He was the Stand On vessel. And yes,
it sounds like the power vessel failed to make sufficient course / speed
correction.

Sounds like you are proposing a new day signal for "Caution, skipper can't
handle this vessle", kinda of like "Not Under Commad" but with an
incompetance slant to it.


Why don't you do a google search and look up some of Roger's previous
postings? He isn't exactly a rookie...


Capt. Bill wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:59:32 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Yeah, I could have called him on the radio but the rules of the road
were written to make it possible to deal with something this simple
without having to yack and negotiate on the air. Having to make a
radio call in a case like this means someone already isn't observing
the rules.

Let me get this straight, you didn't use the radio because you
shouldn't have to if some one is following the rules, but at the same
time you state they weren't following the rules and you still didn't
use the radio.

So at what point would you use your hand held radio? After they had
run you over to call for help?

wrote in message
oups.com...
What part of Roger's explanation did you miss?

The strong winds?

Oh pshaw......my sense from Roger is that the winds were in no way
dangerous, rather of a force that required a tad more attention and muscle
power.


The fact that he was operating single handed?

My understanding is there were others below doing some cooking. Prudence may
have dictated burnt veggies below and an extra hand on deck.


The fact that he had the right of way but was bullied into giving it
up?

LOL Welcome to the world of boating.


Just exactly when is a singlehanded sailor in a strong wind expected to
drop the sheet or the steering apparatus to pick up, turn on, tune in
the correct channel, and broadcast a radio call on a handheld radio?
When some rich asshole in a big yacht is about to run him over, I
guess.

This to me is a problem. All too many sailboats do not have what I would
consider a proper radio set-up for the helmsman.
The rules may not require the use of a radio, but just as you must maintain
a lookout by all means available you should be able to work through/ confer
upon any passing situation by all means available. To not do so, says to me
that you are not adhering to Rule 2.
Obviously I have been following this thread closely. For the most part I
have not disagreed with Roger's basic reasoning not only about the actions
of the yacht but how he handled it. However, he has room for improvement and
I think he's learned some things from it.
Gary made a good point about "radio slang". Not everyone in this NG is from
the US and familiar with US Inland Rules .... so for those of you not used
to these Rules, now you know when in the US you may hear these terms.....
and for those from the US, when sailing outside the US, don't expect someone
to understand what you are saying.
One point that I have....... the discussion has centered on Roger and the
yacht. What other traffic was in the area? i.e. If Roger and the Floridian
were the only two boats in the area, it's one thing, but if there were other
boats in the area and more than these two were on a collision course at the
same time, then it's another story all together.


otn

There was no conflicting traffic. I was alone on the boat.

--

Roger Long

If you know the captain, what was his side of the story?

Cap'n Ric wrote:
I was at Dimillos Old Port Marina in Portland, Maine on the 13th, 14th and
15th of July on my way back to Baltimore, Maryland from Castine, Maine. The
FLORIDIAN was docked to the face pier while I was docked there. The boat is
actually 225 feet LOA and is owned by Wayne Huizenga, the owner of the Miami
Dolphins.

I know the Captain and I'm sure that he had someone at the helm during this
incident. I too have been the victim of large powerboats just missing me
when they have miles of open ocean to avoid me. I'm sure there are two
sides to this story.

Ric

This thread has gone on far too long.