On 3 Apr 2006 22:39:43 -0700, in message
.com
"Bob" wrote:

So lets look at the original post.

"........... My application is Great Lakes sailing, for now at least,
so there is
plenty of cool to cold fresh water available and the potential search
area is well serviced and contained. Hypothermia and drowning are the
big issues..................."


So this guy says he is going to sail on a Great Lake in cold weather. I
assume he means 65 degree or less water temp.

I'm the original poster. I don't think I said anything about cold
weather, just concerns about water temperature for extended exposure.
It's usually warm enough for swimming, except for the beginning of the
racing season when we have plenty of immediate rescue assistance
available. Any open lake cruising usually waits for mid season. The de
facto standard locally is life jackets and an inflatable dinghy
(mentioned in the original post). I'm looking at exceeding that
standard and asking about cost effectiveness of alternatives.

My application is a lot less extreme than offshore fishing in the
Pacific North West. I'm sorry that you have lost buddies in those
conditions. Last time I was 100 miles off the Oregon Coast in a gale
we were carrying two life rafts for redundancy, and surfing at speeds
that were either thrilling or terrifying, depending on who you ask.

Ryk

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Ryk wrote:

I'm the original poster. I don't think I said anything about cold
weather, just concerns about water temperature for extended exposure.

The weather has little to do with it since you'll be in the water. If I
remember correctly water conducts heat about 400 times more than air.
Water temp is easy to determine. Get the surface temprature in the area
you plan on sailing. If 10 miles off get that temp not the temp at the
beach where it is shallow and much watmer. Several places may have the
temp. Talk to any of the State Fish & Wild life biologist or USCG Aux
who give cold water survival classes.

It's usually warm enough for swimming,

Where? At the beach or where you are sailing? Could be very diffrent.

except for the beginning of the
racing season when we have plenty of immediate rescue assistance
available.

If you want to have an interesting time throw a 200lb dummy over the
side and ask for a rescue. The other boats may be "on location" but may
take an hour or two just to get the dummy on the deck.

Any open lake cruising usually waits for mid season. The de
facto standard locally is life jackets and an inflatable dinghy
(mentioned in the original post).

I am always a bit reluctant to accept the "we've been doin it that way
for years" philosophy. Another big gripe that connects here is those
folks who say they've "been sailing for 45 years." They are assuming
that years means smarts. It don't. Maybe they have simply been
repeating the same thing they learned that first year 44 times.

I'm looking at exceeding that
standard and asking about cost effectiveness of alternatives.

Learning the facts are the best way to do that and then applying the
guidlines to your specific situation. The problem is knowing when you
are getting accurate information. So when I hear people use the word
"survival suit" I know they are working with severly limitted
information.


My application is a lot less extreme than offshore fishing in the
Pacific North West.

I am not so sure about that. People croak all over the place and all in
seemingly "safe" swimming holes. Water temprature is the killer. There
are cards to calculate suvival limits. Minutes - water temp - minutes
to live. Now here is the other problem with thoes cards. Who are the
subjects thoes numbers represent. Add age, lets say 52 yo, physical
condition, medications, smoker? Had two beers at lunch two hours
before going sailing? If so, start cutting your survial time down or
increase the wate temprature.

I'm sorry that you have lost buddies in those
conditions.

Yea, it was a real wake up call. I was suppose to be fishing with them.
But thought sleeping with my girlfriend and drinking beer at college
was more fun than fishing. Larry and Bill were good guys. I think I
made the right decession. On the bright side a lot has been learned in
30 years about cold water safety. You are obvioiusly interested in
learning. Thats good. Now finding the right training...that is another
task.

Last time I was 100 miles off the Oregon Coast in a gale
we were carrying two life rafts for redundancy, and surfing at speeds
that were either thrilling or terrifying, depending on who you ask.

Sounds like a typical summer day on the coast: NW 20- 30 knts 12-15'
swells. Water temp 53 degrees. What were you doing there? I am
assumeing summer and heading south?

I would like to know what cold water course you take. When you do
please post your experince here. My only advice is stay away from the
sailing-recreational crowd. Sadly, a few will consider your words as
rants from another hysterical safety nut cry baby.

Have fun
Bob


Ryk

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On 2006-04-04 12:10:45 -0400, "Bob" said:

The weather has little to do with it since you'll be in the water. If I
remember correctly water conducts heat about 400 times more than air.
Water temp is easy to determine. Get the surface temprature in the area
you plan on sailing. If 10 miles off get that temp not the temp at the
beach where it is shallow and much watmer. Several places may have the
temp. Talk to any of the State Fish & Wild life biologist or USCG Aux
who give cold water survival classes.

Actually, it's only about 25x better than air... if it was 400x better
than air, it would heat up a hell of a lot faster than it does.