PBM wrote:

I've always believed that a key to survival in an emergency is to keep
a clear head and not get hysterical. Bob wouldn't stand a chance....


Hi PBM:

When I was typing that post I had an all to common feeling of
frustration that usually turns to intolerance. Not sure if
"hysterical" is accurate.

What I am absolutely at wits end is the continuous advice from several
post here that simply spout the same west marine commercials regarding
vessel operation. That is, perpetuating advice they got from an
organization that wants to do one thing: sell equipment. Don't get
too hung up on WM. I use them as an example of ASA, Cruising World, and
the rest. The most recent discussion regarding auto or manual activated
harness PFDs is a great example.

So lets look at the original post.

"........... My application is Great Lakes sailing, for now at least,
so there is
plenty of cool to cold fresh water available and the potential search
area is well serviced and contained. Hypothermia and drowning are the
big issues..................."


So this guy says he is going to sail on a Great Lake in cold weather. I
assume he means 65 degree or less water temp. You tell me what would be
advisable for keeping a "typical" boater/family from drowning-dying
of hypothermia if the party decides to jump over board? How many miles
off the beach? How many minutes/hours before a rescue team shows up?
How long before the last of 2-3-5 people finally gets retrieved? The
local marine cops I have seen are a joke. And the volunteer SAR folks
are about the same. I admit my sample is only PNW and OK-TX-LA. I have
never had a boat go out from under me. Foot prints on the ceiling yes,
total sinking no.

Here is my take. Simply by using the term "survival suit" shows a
total lack of information and understanding regarding cold water
survival. The first person I knew who died in a survival suit was my
best friend in high school, Larry Jinks. We were in boy scouts together
and he was my college roommate. At about age 22 he quit college and
bought a 58' wood dragger then later a steel boat.It was the F/V Miss
Connie.It was one of the Hall brothers boats. He was fished out of
Newport, OR. Another high school friend, Bill H. and some other guy was
working the deck. I remember Larry was very proud of the fact that he
had survival suits for everyone. By his own words, if the boat goes
down all we have to do is clime into this babies and wait for a coasty.
The year was 1978. The USCG picked up two bodies in immersion suits.
The third crewmember was not recovered. Two close friends dead and I
haven't started the stories from the 80s or 90s.

So please do not tell me I am being hysterical when I want people to
realize that there is no such thing as a "survival suit." My big
grief is for the poor folks on that guy's boat who do not know
anything about cold water survival and look to him for guidance. For
example, the trust a ten year old daughter has knowing her daddy will
keep her safe while on the boat.

So if it takes a few guys like yourself to think my words are
hysterical so be it. Maybe someone else will take the time to actually
READ the label and instruction card attached to that immersion suit.
Better yet, they may actually take a cold water survival course
designed for tug, crewboats, and chaterboat crew, or commercial
fisherman. Your NJ safe boater license wont make the grade.

As far as what you said, "...................I've always believed
that a key to survival in an emergency is to keep a clear head and not
get hysterical. Bob wouldn't stand a chance........"

I agree. Being calm is important. Just as important is knowing what to
do, not just look cool and calm. Even more important.......... I am
still alive.
In other words, ............ Go **** yourself.
Bob