Larry had this link buried down in a reply to a long thread. It's one
of the most disturbing things I've read about boats in a long time.
It deserves much wider exposure.

http://yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm

Boy, do I love my 1980 Endeavor 32 with 3/4 inches of solid glass
between me and the ocean. I cut some holes for new through hulls and
there is enough glass in there to build about ten boats today.

--

Roger Long

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:48:05 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

That website is old news, and many have written extensively on why it
is really one man's self serving and less than honest rant.

You're entitled to your opinion of course but the description of
"modern" boat building methods is quite accurate and the pictures
speak for themselves.

Pascoe may be opinionated and outspoken but he is also a well
respected marine professional with a great deal of experience.

Even with sailboats, the older cored hull boats ( 10 years), have an
abysmal record of durability. Case in point: Twenty years ago the
J-35 was an incredibly popular boat. Take a look around now at how
many are still sailing. My guess is that the insurance companies have
cracked down and are refusing to repair or take them on. Major core
repairs typically cost more than the market value of the boat and the
whole thing ends up in a dumpster.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:56:22 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Larry had this link buried down in a reply to a long thread. It's one
of the most disturbing things I've read about boats in a long time.
It deserves much wider exposure.

http://yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm

Boy, do I love my 1980 Endeavor 32 with 3/4 inches of solid glass
between me and the ocean. I cut some holes for new through hulls and
there is enough glass in there to build about ten boats today.

This has been around for a few years, Roger, and I am quite skeptical
about certain building techniques today also. I realize on an
intellectual level that cored hulls can be stronger and that many
things remain to be learned from Open 60s and America's Cup designs
for production boats, but when I ran aground last fall, I was damn
glad my family and I were in a 30 year old solid glass hull, 7/8"
thick at the bilges, and with freshly retabbed bulkheads and reseated
thru-hulls. We rectified the situation soon enough, but if I'd been
in, say, a Hunter 33, I would have added fear of major destruction to
what was merely a passing inconvenience.

R.

Hi:

Pasco: Love him or hate him? Just another opinion to consider.

Personnaly I am sitting in a 27 year old boat. It has 1 1/2" of hand
layed glass at the turn of the bilge. Its 39 LOA. That 1 1/2" came in
real handy when a Tidewater tug bounced off me two years ago. Still
have the green pant on the hull as a reminder.
The Captain was reall appolgetic. Invited me over for a tour and even
gave me a free soda. Pretty good deal. Nice guy too. Although, he
seemed a bit woried about somthing. Go figure.
Bob

Wayne.B wrote in
:

Pascoe may be opinionated and outspoken but he is also a well
respected marine professional with a great deal of experience.



I particularly respect him for his statement that they put a layer of
roving on the INSIDE to try to fool the surveyors into thinking it's real
fiberglass, then just coat the outside with gelcoat over the chopper gun
crapware the hull is made of.

I'm amazed the moguls haven't had him killed....He's gotta be costing them
big money.

I met a black worker in a little diner I like to breakfast in, here in
Charleston where many boats are made. He ran the chopper gun for several
of them over the years, gotta be the worst job in the plant. I asked him
how long the fibers were that came out of the chopper gun spraying into the
mold. He said 1/4 to 1/2" long. How in hell does that make a hull strong?

Yecch....goosebumps thinking about banging it into a bouy at 20. Someone
at CG has gotta be takin' a bribe to let this crap float in the waterways.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:34:58 -0500, Larry wrote:

I'm amazed the moguls haven't had him killed....He's gotta be costing them
big money.

Not really. Most buyer could care less as long as the boat does what
they want it to, and most buyers have never heard of David Pascoe.
The vast majority of boats in that size range never get run in rough
water for any length of time, and the builders are counting on that.

Hi;
Got to agree with Wayne B. Most people just want a fun big white boat
to zoom around in. They read Sailing magazine for product advice. The
editors are profit motivated and want to sell advertising space. Next
you see beautiful pictures in the magazine with sailors who are nothing
more than models used for product placement.

I saw the same thing happen to sports SCUBA decades ago. Certifying
organizations, (PADI, SSI etc.), magazines, and equipment vendors
realized they could make more money if they all cooperated. As a
result, you have sports SCUBA instructors being told by their
certification organizations to use only the "safest equipment" possible
for their instruction. So the curriculum changed to reflect the "new
safer" technology. Only problems is that only company XX is the one
that sells the stuff. Unfortunately most people do not realize that
equipment distributors - magazines - and certifying organizations are
there for one thing...... maximize profit by cooperating together.

Apply that same model to sailing: Corporations that build boats also
own a charter operations, that also have stock in print media, that
also have agreements with equipment vendors that supply the builders at
a reduced price. So the average Joe who always wanted to go sailing now
can get a "keel boat " certification from a national sailing school,
who by the way teach that you need their certification to charter a
boat, from guess where??? Very effective marketing model.

Need to remember that competition can drive business bankrupt.
Cooperation is vastly more successful.

Very persuasive. Who wants to buy/use those old outdated designs
anyway? They are slow, old, difficult to sail, and are not safe say the
charter companies, magazines, school curricula. For example read some
of the old threads regarding double ended hulls. I agree it is very
difficult to have a grand stair case on a double ender.

Persuasion method used: inductive logic. "You can get a man to
swallow an elephant if you feed it to him one bite at a time." There
is no means of persuasion/marketing more potent than a person who
persuades their self.

Emotional appeal: Fear. You'll kill yourself or God for bd a family
member. Need to be safe so you need this safety equipment, boat,
certification etc.

Bob

Ya I know, whats wrong with making a profit and a good living?

Nothing. Enron had no problems with that.
I know.... the free market will supply a need if there is a
market/demand.

I guess I am gullible enough to still believe that screwing everyone
insight is not okay. So I suppose that you are the type who wants to
keep big government off my back and out of my pocket. You know.......
lets have unlimited speed limits and if some liquored up teenager slams
into my car going 104 mph I guess its my fault for being there. I guess
I just don't like corporations telling me I got one choice.... take
it or leave it. Or even more slick, teaching a generation of boaters
that 1/8" of chopped glass is an approved industry standard on a 41
foot boat.

That is why i think this discussion board is so essential. You're not
going to read comments found here in Sailing magazine or a Moorings
brochures or a Keel Boat Certification curriculum.

Still Bobing

In article ,
says...


On 3 Feb 2006 08:53:57 -0800, "Bob" said:

The
editors are profit motivated and want to sell advertising space.

A person in business motivated by profit? I'm shocked. Shocked.

What happened to the knight in shining armor motivated only to do good
deeds? And what about his sidekick riding the donkey?

He came to a bad end.

Hi Dave:

What makes my comments so irrational? Is it that you do not agree or
simply do not understand?

I'm just saying there are some very well organized people out there who
are doing their very best to keep you ignorant so they can make a buck.
Maybe that is not such a difficult task in your case.


Bob