Wayne.B wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 23:06:04 -0800, "purple_stars"
wrote:


it just
seems like the only reason you "have to" abandon ship is the thing is
filling up with water and is headed for the bottom of the ocean.


Once you trip off the EPIRB and the rescue helicopter shows up things
may be out of your hands. As I understand it, they can "order" you
off the boat at that point.

I'm not sure they can "order" you off, but once you've set off the
EPIRB and/or requested a rescue, its pretty hard, if not negligent, to
refuse after the crew has risked their lives (and possibly jeopardized
others) getting to you.

On the other hand, when you trip the EPIRB, you're making a guess that
at some point in the future, perhaps several hours, thing will be so
bad that you'll need to get off in a hurry. Perhaps you have severe
structural damage, and you know the boat will sink if it gets any
worse. I don't think I'd want to spend a night 100 miles offshore in
that situation.

So this brings up the question, if you could quantify the risk, at
what point would you say, "please send a chopper"? Would you do it at
50% risk? 10%? 90%? Or should you wait until you're stepping into
the liferaft?

I have old cruising friends who spent a horrible night many years ago
at the hands of a hurricane - I won't tell the story now, but they
spent 8 hours struggling to save the boat, convinced they were going
to die. The next day they just drifted, recovering their strength.
Shortly thereafter, they said "If a helicopter appeared overhead then
[after the storm], we would have taken the ride." The funny thing is
that nowadays they don't carry an EPIRB because they don't think it's
fair to ask someone to risk their life because of their incompetence.
Fortunately, they don't do long passages.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:40:58 -0500, Jeff wrote:

So this brings up the question, if you could quantify the risk, at
what point would you say, "please send a chopper"? Would you do it at
50% risk? 10%? 90%? Or should you wait until you're stepping into
the liferaft?

My boat?

1. After I'm in the liferaft and the big boat sinks or is clearly
about to;

2. Someone has become seriously injured.

Easy to say here in the comfort of my home...

Refusing to follow an order from the coast guard is a felony for those
who are inclined to go that way.

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:
Refusing to follow an order from the coast guard is a felony for those
who are inclined to go that way.

I'm not sure this is correct in all situations. It might also not be
enforceable. What are they actually going to do to you? Say you're 500
miles off, there is high wind and big waves, the epirb is activated
(how about by mistake?), the CG shows up, and you say, no, it was a
mistake. Everyone is fine (of even better, you're single handing and
you're fine). Are they going to stay on station until the weather gets
better then arrest you on the high seas? What if you're not a US
citizen? Are they going to follow you to port or attempt to board you?

I know of at least one situation with a fishing boat out here where
they asked to board for an inspection. The guy had apparently been
boarded many times. He told them to screw off. Finally, they backed
down and left him alone.




--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

On 26 Jan 2006 18:40:36 -0800, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

He told them to screw off. Finally, they backed
down and left him alone.

OK, you first.

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 18:40:36 -0800, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

He told them to screw off. Finally, they backed
down and left him alone.

OK, you first.

Not me buddy. I might not be too bright, but I'm not stupid. :-)




--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

Refusing to follow an order from the coast guard is a felony for those
who are inclined to go that way.


I'm not sure this is correct in all situations. It might also not be
enforceable. What are they actually going to do to you? Say you're 500
miles off, there is high wind and big waves, the epirb is activated
(how about by mistake?), the CG shows up, and you say, no, it was a
mistake. Everyone is fine (of even better, you're single handing and
you're fine). Are they going to stay on station until the weather gets
better then arrest you on the high seas? What if you're not a US
citizen? Are they going to follow you to port or attempt to board you?

I know of at least one situation with a fishing boat out here where
they asked to board for an inspection. The guy had apparently been
boarded many times. He told them to screw off. Finally, they backed
down and left him alone.




What are the Coast Guard doing 500 miles offshore?

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 05:44:34 GMT, Gary wrote:

What are the Coast Guard doing 500 miles offshore?

It was 50 miles. They have routine patrols on both coasts going down
as far as South America, primarily for drug interdiction but also for
Search and Rescue (SAR) operations.

In article 6riCf.337319$2k.178832@pd7tw1no,
Gary wrote:
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

Refusing to follow an order from the coast guard is a felony for those
who are inclined to go that way.


I'm not sure this is correct in all situations. It might also not be
enforceable. What are they actually going to do to you? Say you're 500
miles off, there is high wind and big waves, the epirb is activated
(how about by mistake?), the CG shows up, and you say, no, it was a
mistake. Everyone is fine (of even better, you're single handing and
you're fine). Are they going to stay on station until the weather gets
better then arrest you on the high seas? What if you're not a US
citizen? Are they going to follow you to port or attempt to board you?

I know of at least one situation with a fishing boat out here where
they asked to board for an inspection. The guy had apparently been
boarded many times. He told them to screw off. Finally, they backed
down and left him alone.




What are the Coast Guard doing 500 miles offshore?

Air/sea rescues. We were just over 200 miles off when we were
overflown by a USCG Air/Sea rescue plane. I think they were wondering
what we were doing out there, since we were just drifting for a couple
of hours. They did a couple of loops while we waved, and then they
took off in the direction of another sailboat we had seen a 1/2 day
before. I think they did the extra loops so low because a couple of
the women were skinny dipping, but you never know.


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:40:58 -0500, Jeff wrote:


So this brings up the question, if you could quantify the risk, at
what point would you say, "please send a chopper"? Would you do it at
50% risk? 10%? 90%? Or should you wait until you're stepping into
the liferaft?


My boat?

1. After I'm in the liferaft and the big boat sinks or is clearly
about to;

2. Someone has become seriously injured.

Easy to say here in the comfort of my home...

Refusing to follow an order from the coast guard is a felony for those
who are inclined to go that way.

Richard Woods (the skipper of the cat we're discussing) is British and
his boat is UK Flagged - and this is international waters. What
felony law would apply?

I do agree that once you've asked for a rescue, you should be prepared
to abandon the vessel, unless conditions have really moderated when
the rescue vessel arrives.

I met Richard last summer and really feel for him losing his boat. I
hope he gets it back.

Evan Gatehouse

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:01:27 -0800, Evan Gatehouse
wrote:

Richard Woods (the skipper of the cat we're discussing) is British and
his boat is UK Flagged - and this is international waters. What
felony law would apply?

Good question, and I have no idea. For US citizens it is clear cut:
You are required to obey an order from a law enforcement officer, and
the USCG qualifies as such.