On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:49:49 -0500, "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach at
gmail dotcom wrote:

The only one I don't recall seeing in this thread is the one used by the
Coast Guard, the Cap'n.

What's the opinion on that program compared to the others which have been
getting lots of discussion?

In my opinion for what it's worth, it is overpriced and over hyped.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:04:16 -0500, Matt O'Toole
wrote:

Previously I had used every version of Maptech since 1.0 for DOS*. All of
these except 1.0 are slow, even on fast computers; very cumbersome to use,
and buggy.

Most of the bugs seem to be gone in version 5. I have no issues with
speed running on 500 mhz Pentium 3s which are not exactly state of the
art.

It is important to shut down unused software like virus checkers, fire
walls, anti spyware, and other memory hogs not needed for navigation.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 22:25:31 -0500, Howard wrote:


All that being said, its a cool toy. It may not be worth a damn on a
boat, alone, in the fog, at night.

Very good observations, and since the introduction of Google Earth and
similar services a few months back, I have puzzled over how I could
use it on the boat G.

I think you have to use every tool available to you in the run-up to a
passagemaking or to the transiting of an unknown-to-you landfall or
harbour. These devices are excellent for planning one's approach, but
even in the "live GPS position" mode, they are practically static
compared to the eyes, ears and yes, nose of the practiced sailor. Two
potential problems exist with electronic navigation:

1) With the new expensive, full-colour plotters, you are a little icon
in a video game. This can be isolating you from the dynamic
environment around you. Seamanship isn't a video game, but video games
can aid seamanship.

2) Electronic charts are out of date a day after you get them. Nothing
beats a live, self-interested and therefore motivated human on the
foredeck (using family band radio to the helm if you want to get all
technological) keeping a watch in fog, signalling with a horn and
LISTENING. I have heard of at least one case when sailboats in fog at
night collided because both were converging on the same navigational
aid...thanks to the marvels of GPS/chartplotting. Keeping a watch may
have avoided this.

I have noticed that I can occasionally guess who is using
chartplotting by the behaviour of their boats near navigational aids
or off landmarks following a depth contour. You are the skipper. The
technology informs, but being indifferent to the outcome, it cannot be
responsible.

R.

John Glynn a écrit:

I'm sort of used to navigating with paper charts and a pencil...but thinking
of moving a little higher-tech.

Been looking at PC Navigation Software. Looked at Chart Navigator Pro by
MapTech, the Ozi one, Fugawi and others.

I sure would appreciate users input on what they use, and what they like and
don't like about it.

I used ScanNav (http://www.scannav.com/GB/home.html) from the very
begining of the development of this software (7 years ago).
Now this is a complete program (it reads all usual raster map formats
*and* the free US maps in the S57 vector format in a seamless way).
You can get it for less than $300 (including tidal currents and weather
forecast additionnal modules and frequent free updates).
Considering the numerous functionnalities of ScanNav, the only programs
I have tried who can beat the Scannav's quality/price ratio are free
softwares such as SeaClear.

An important point : the program itself is very light and you can use it
easily in an old and cheap laptop dedicated to your boat. This is what I
do.

--
Peio

Yeah, that's why I turned if off. It would be embarassing to run into a
cliff while looking down the companion way at a video game. Going into
Ship Harbour I could hear the surf of the 8-foot swell - over the motor.
But I couldn't see the front of the cockpit.

BTW, I also read your reply asking about a cockpit screen reminded me
that one day I could see the fog condensing on my arm hair and the water
was running down the rigging. Just fog. I had to keep three pairs of
glasses just to see the damn compas let alone some computer screen. I
rigged the radar so I was mounted to the middle washboard and that way
kept it out of the worst of the wet but it filled up the companionway.

I don't know about you but I spend 6 to 8 hours a day on a computer
already. At 54 my arms shurnk enough that I can't read a headline at
full arms length. Sucks to be old but beats the only option.

Howard

rhys wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 22:25:31 -0500, Howard wrote:


All that being said, its a cool toy. It may not be worth a damn on a
boat, alone, in the fog, at night.


Very good observations, and since the introduction of Google Earth and
similar services a few months back, I have puzzled over how I could
use it on the boat G.

I think you have to use every tool available to you in the run-up to a
passagemaking or to the transiting of an unknown-to-you landfall or
harbour. These devices are excellent for planning one's approach, but
even in the "live GPS position" mode, they are practically static
compared to the eyes, ears and yes, nose of the practiced sailor. Two
potential problems exist with electronic navigation:

1) With the new expensive, full-colour plotters, you are a little icon
in a video game. This can be isolating you from the dynamic
environment around you. Seamanship isn't a video game, but video games
can aid seamanship.

2) Electronic charts are out of date a day after you get them. Nothing
beats a live, self-interested and therefore motivated human on the
foredeck (using family band radio to the helm if you want to get all
technological) keeping a watch in fog, signalling with a horn and
LISTENING. I have heard of at least one case when sailboats in fog at
night collided because both were converging on the same navigational
aid...thanks to the marvels of GPS/chartplotting. Keeping a watch may
have avoided this.

I have noticed that I can occasionally guess who is using
chartplotting by the behaviour of their boats near navigational aids
or off landmarks following a depth contour. You are the skipper. The
technology informs, but being indifferent to the outcome, it cannot be
responsible.

R.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:02:39 -0800, Brent Geery wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:04:16 -0500, Matt O'Toole
wrote:

For the last 3 years I've been using Maptech's Pocket Navigator, which
runs on a PDA, with a companion program on a laptop. You can't use one
without the other. It works great though, the PDA being much faster and
easier to use, plus you can see the screen in direct sunlight. So far
this is my favorite.

Pocket Navigator = old and crippled version of Memory Map Navigator.

What's so much better about MM Navigator?

MM has an upgrade program where all you pay is the difference between
what Maptech charges for Pocket Nav and what they charge for Memory Map
Navigator or the Pro version. The Pro version even has support for AIS
display on the PocktPC.

http://www.memory-map.com/software_upgrade.htm can give you the cost to
upgrade to MMN or MMP. This is probably the cheapest route.

Upgrading will probably be cheapest way to get MM, but FYI for anyone
else buying new: The cheapest retailer for the Pro version that I have
found is the Canadian http://www.maptown.com. They have the Pro version
for US$173 (vs $225 retail) for the retail boxed version delivered to
the US. They also have the retail box version of MM Navigator for $111
delivered to the US, but it's cheaper to just buy a license from
http://www.memory-map.com and download the software.

Don't forget you need a PDA with add-on GPS too, so if you don't have
either you should look for a bundle. We got ours from Maptech themselves,
everything for like $600.

Why Memory Map is not more well known i beyond me. It is written by an
active sailor and cruiser and it is by far the most intuitive and easy
to use chart plotting software out there IMHO, and it is blazing fast,
like no other bar none.

I feel the same way about Pocket Navigator compared to the other stuff
I've used, but if you say MM Navigator is that much better it's worth a
try.

Designing for the PDA is probably similar to what designers faced when
developing the original Maptech for DOS. Limited resources enforces
design discipline. The later Maptech stuff looks like someone just
threw together a bunch of VB or Delphi widgets and called it a day.

Matt O.

Pocket Navigator = old and crippled version of Memory Map Navigator.

What's so much better about MM Navigator?

http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/mmv4/mm_v4f.htm has a review
covering version 4 of PN and MMN (and the extra features of MMP.) MMN
is up to v5.

Here is a quick summary from the above link:
"The Maptech version doesn't allow all the various map types, 3D view,
Sync Views, and prior to V4 didn't contain the enhanced overlay manager
on the PocketPC, allowing you to list marks, routes, etc, in tabular
form (which is a nice feature). And of course, no printing or support
for creating and calibrating your own maps."

And the professional version adds the following features in addition to
the standard version:
- CSV (comma separated value) and ESRI Shapefile format. CSV is good
for managing data using a spreadsheet. and Shapefiles are widely used
for distributing geographic data.
- Support for large format printers, Tabloid (11" x 17" and larger)
inkjet printers
- Hi-res display for Pocket PC using Second Sight wearable display.
- Adds support for the free PocketAIS plugin. AIS target display on
both Pocket PC and desktop.

There are further features in the new v5 as well. See
www.memory-map.com.

MM has an upgrade program where all you pay is the difference between

what Maptech charges for Pocket Nav and what they charge for Memory Map
Navigator or the Pro version. The Pro version even has support for AIS
display on the PocktPC.
http://www.memory-map.com/software_upgrade.htm can give you the cost to
upgrade to MMN or MMP. This is probably the cheapest route.
Upgrading will probably be cheapest way to get MM, but FYI for anyone
else buying new: The cheapest retailer for the Pro version that I have
found is the Canadian http://www.maptown.com. They have the Pro version
for US$173 (vs $225 retail) for the retail boxed version delivered to
the US. They also have the retail box version of MM Navigator for $111
delivered to the US, but it's cheaper to just buy a license from
http://www.memory-map.com and download the software.

Don't forget you need a PDA with add-on GPS too, so if you don't have
either you should look for a bundle. We got ours from Maptech themselves,
everything for like $600.

Sure, but I assume you have that already.

Is that a VGA screen on the Maptech PDA? I've spent:

$170 Memory-Map Pro
$330 Dell Axim X51v 624Mhz VGA PDA new on e-Bay
$140 OtterBox 3600 w/ Through-the-Box Connection Pod
$20 Power dongle on e-Bay

So $660 total, but that includes a top-of-the-line PDA, MM Pro, and
deluxe waterproof case. Not bad for an extra 10%.

Why Memory Map is not more well known i beyond me. It is written by an
active sailor and cruiser and it is by far the most intuitive and easy
to use chart plotting software out there IMHO, and it is blazing fast,
like no other bar none.

I feel the same way about Pocket Navigator compared to the other stuff
I've used, but if you say MM Navigator is that much better it's worth a
try.

They have a 10 day demo of MMN, but I could not get the demo for MMP to
activate its extra features.

Designing for the PDA is probably similar to what designers faced when
developing the original Maptech for DOS. Limited resources enforces
design discipline. The later Maptech stuff looks like someone just
threw together a bunch of VB or Delphi widgets and called it a day.

You're right. Richard, the guy behind MM, has a background in
intergrated systems.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 02:39:35 -0800, bgeery wrote:

Pocket Navigator = old and crippled version of Memory Map Navigator.

What's so much better about MM Navigator?

http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/mmv4/mm_v4f.htm has a review
covering version 4 of PN and MMN (and the extra features of MMP.) MMN
is up to v5.

Here is a quick summary from the above link: "The Maptech version
doesn't allow all the various map types, 3D view, Sync Views, and prior
to V4 didn't contain the enhanced overlay manager on the PocketPC,
allowing you to list marks, routes, etc, in tabular form (which is a
nice feature). And of course, no printing or support for creating and
calibrating your own maps."

And the professional version adds the following features in addition to
the standard version:
- CSV (comma separated value) and ESRI Shapefile format. CSV is good for
managing data using a spreadsheet. and Shapefiles are widely used for
distributing geographic data.
- Support for large format printers, Tabloid (11" x 17" and larger)
inkjet printers
- Hi-res display for Pocket PC using Second Sight wearable display. -
Adds support for the free PocketAIS plugin. AIS target display on both
Pocket PC and desktop.

There are further features in the new v5 as well. See
www.memory-map.com.

I'm sure all that stuff is neat, but I probably wouldn't use any of it.
I'm not being flip, just realistic. Thanks for the report though, and
I'll check out the review.

Is that a VGA screen on the Maptech PDA? I've spent:

$170 Memory-Map Pro
$330 Dell Axim X51v 624Mhz VGA PDA new on e-Bay $140 OtterBox 3600 w/
Through-the-Box Connection Pod $20 Power dongle on e-Bay

So $660 total, but that includes a top-of-the-line PDA, MM Pro, and
deluxe waterproof case. Not bad for an extra 10%.

We got the iPaq PDA, a sleeve GPS, and the Maptech software, bundled for
$600. This was ~3 years ago. Hardware prices have probably come
down since.

The bundle was supposed to include a Navman sleeve GPS, but came with a
nearly identical Transplant instead. I guess Maptech was out of Navmans
that day. That's fine, but we had a heck of a time trying to get support
from Maptech or Navman. Maptech basically blew us off, despite being
Maptech customer #3 of all time -- 20+ years -- and having bought every
version since. Navman were very nice, but perplexed as to why the unit we
had didn't resemble any of theirs!

Since then, I've had to replace the GPS -- strangely, with a Transplant
CF model that plugs into the original sleeve GPS. So I have a GPS plugged
into a dead GPS, plugged into (or onto) the PDA. It's a stupid
arrangement, but the only practical solution. The Transplant
people were great, after we finally figured out we were their customer,
not Navman's. They got a replacement to us in Canada within a couple of
days.

We're no longer too happy with Maptech, either their products or the
company. I do not want to give them any more money. I love how
they tell us to "just go to their website" -- when we're on a frickin' boat!

So folks, there's your Maptech feedback.

Note -- I'm glad we still have, and know how to use, paper charts.

They have a 10 day demo of MMN, but I could not get the demo for MMP to
activate its extra features.

I'll probably give it a go. Thanks for the tip.

Matt O.