Jack Dale wrote:
On 27 Dec 2005 15:12:16 -0800, "Andy"
wrote:

Why do you say we were very lucky? What exactly does one need a lot of
experience with before going coastal cruising that can't be learned
from books?

Docking under power and sail

I mentioned earlier in this thread that docking is one of the things I
think is best learned from an instructor.

MOB (upwind and downwind) and under power

The basic principles of MOB are easily learned from a book and then you
can practice on your own by throwing a cushion over and getting it back
over and over. A live instructor is not necessary.

Reefing

Easy to learn from a book and practice on your own. I think my
instructor showed us once, the seller of our boat showed us once at the
dock how he had things rigged up, we read up on it, and then we
practiced a few times.

Gennaker and spinnaker handling and trim

You don't need a gennaker or a spinnaker to cruise. I figured out how
to use the cruising spinnaker that came with my boat from a 5 minute
explanation from the seller and some reading.

Anchoring with two anchors

Pretty straightforward to learn from a book.

Anchoring stern-to shore / dock

Ditto.

Practical application of Colregs

Easy to learn from a book.

Getting meaningful weather forecasts

I learned this from reading books and info on the internet.

Being able to read clouds, wind directions and barometers to do your
own forecasting

This is covered well in books.

Passage planning

Covered well in books.

The actual sailing part of cruising is pretty simple and
straightfoward. While it could easily take a lifetime to master the art
of sailing for maximum speed, for purposes of cruising you just need to
know how to roughly trim the sails.

Eventually you will want to learn sail trim to go faster as well as
save wear and tear on your sails.

I learned the finer points of sail trim from books and experimenting.
No particular reason to pay an instructor other than to teach you the
basic principles.

Navigation, especially with a GPS, is pretty straightforward and can be
learned from books.

I would suggest that navigation is not that straightforward. I teach
both traditional navigation and elctronic navigation (but not
celestial). Our courses run 8 to 10 weeks in length.

I don't see any advantage to learning navigation from a teacher as
compared to learning from a book.

I think an instructor is very useful for learning basic helmsmanship,
sail trim, rules of the road, and docking, say 15 to 24 hours worth of
time on the water. After that it is possible for an intelligent and
motivated person to teach themselves from books.

Andy

"Andy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Jack Dale wrote:
On 27 Dec 2005 15:12:16 -0800, "Andy"
wrote:

Why do you say we were very lucky? What exactly does one need
a lot of
experience with before going coastal cruising that can't be
learned
from books?

Docking under power and sail

I mentioned earlier in this thread that docking is one of the
things I
think is best learned from an instructor.

snipped, but you listed other elements easier learned from
instructors

Andy,

I support your views completely. Thanks for airing the pragmatic
approach to learning to sail. Dangerous thing to do in this forum!

One factor others in this thread have ignored is that some people
learn best from books, then exploring for themselves, while others
learn best by seeing and doing under supervision. The latter group
are served by some who will criticise you - but let's remember
they have a vested interest in increasing the demand for their
market.

Another factor ignored is that a lot depends on where a sailor
first gained experience. It's very easy to learn (for instance) in
the Mediterranean in the summer in a sheltered area such as the
Inland Ionian Sea (no tides, light winds, no weather, no swell,
only one dangerous under water rock to hit) After 24 hours of
instruction you can send Mr and Mrs average out to skipper
their own 30ft yacht - under daily supervision. It's quite another
thing to learn sailing around the Channel Islands in the English
Channel (5kt tide streams, 9m tidal range, thousands of hidden
rocks requiring tight pilotage in sometimes poor visibility, and a
good swell to boot). Instruction with these complicating factors
is a lot slower, and exposure to variations a lot more important.

And these two groups are pretty intolerant of each other's style
of learning, though both are valid.

A third factor ignored is that *everyone* extends their experience
from their first 'instruction' (book or on water). What matters is
how they extend their experience; responsibly (with some fear, and
the knowledge that there's a lot to learn?) or irresponsibly (full
of confidence that they've learnt most of it?).

On extending experience: about half my (yachtmaster) examination
candidates had attended full courses, and about half presented
themselves as 'experienced'. A few of the total didn't meet
acceptable standards. 'Course' candidate failures were mainly
those who'd be difficult to teach to drive a car - lacking the
ability to puzzle out a new situation under stress. More sea time
was
the cure. 'Experienced' candidate failures stemmed mainly from not
reading through the syllabus being examined; gross omissions -
such as believing that racing rules were good enough knowledge to
pass for colregs! Their solution was to humble themselves by
reading the syllabus and boning up on the gaps in their knowledge.

JimB

Andy wrote:
Jack Dale wrote:

On 27 Dec 2005 15:12:16 -0800, "Andy"
wrote:


Why do you say we were very lucky? What exactly does one need a lot of
experience with before going coastal cruising that can't be learned

from books?

Docking under power and sail


I mentioned earlier in this thread that docking is one of the things I
think is best learned from an instructor.


MOB (upwind and downwind) and under power


The basic principles of MOB are easily learned from a book and then you
can practice on your own by throwing a cushion over and getting it back
over and over. A live instructor is not necessary.


Reefing


Easy to learn from a book and practice on your own. I think my
instructor showed us once, the seller of our boat showed us once at the
dock how he had things rigged up, we read up on it, and then we
practiced a few times.


Gennaker and spinnaker handling and trim


You don't need a gennaker or a spinnaker to cruise. I figured out how
to use the cruising spinnaker that came with my boat from a 5 minute
explanation from the seller and some reading.


Anchoring with two anchors


Pretty straightforward to learn from a book.


Anchoring stern-to shore / dock


Ditto.


Practical application of Colregs


Easy to learn from a book.


Getting meaningful weather forecasts


I learned this from reading books and info on the internet.


Being able to read clouds, wind directions and barometers to do your
own forecasting


This is covered well in books.


Passage planning


Covered well in books.


The actual sailing part of cruising is pretty simple and
straightfoward. While it could easily take a lifetime to master the art
of sailing for maximum speed, for purposes of cruising you just need to
know how to roughly trim the sails.

Eventually you will want to learn sail trim to go faster as well as
save wear and tear on your sails.


I learned the finer points of sail trim from books and experimenting.
No particular reason to pay an instructor other than to teach you the
basic principles.


Navigation, especially with a GPS, is pretty straightforward and can be
learned from books.

I would suggest that navigation is not that straightforward. I teach
both traditional navigation and elctronic navigation (but not
celestial). Our courses run 8 to 10 weeks in length.


I don't see any advantage to learning navigation from a teacher as
compared to learning from a book.

I think an instructor is very useful for learning basic helmsmanship,
sail trim, rules of the road, and docking, say 15 to 24 hours worth of
time on the water. After that it is possible for an intelligent and
motivated person to teach themselves from books.

Andy

Funny, most books advise a course. You didn't learn that.

Gaz

"Gary" wrote in message
news:u6ltf.102873$2k.49337@pd7tw1no...

snip

I don't see any advantage to learning navigation from a teacher as
compared to learning from a book.

I think an instructor is very useful for learning basic helmsmanship,
sail trim, rules of the road, and docking, say 15 to 24 hours worth of
time on the water. After that it is possible for an intelligent and
motivated person to teach themselves from books.

Andy

Funny, most books advise a course. You didn't learn that.

Gaz

That's funny!

DP