Hi,

I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
however.

The sailing club (http://www.sailmanhattan.com/) requires a total of
22 hours of training, and they have J/24 sailboats. Even then, one is
not allowed to sail their boats without a more experienced person being
the skipper.

The leasing company (http://www.pinnacleyachts.com/) requires 15 hours
of instruction, and they have Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 yachts, and once
you have learned, you are allowed to take them out on your own.

What confuses me is, I would think the 37 footer would be harder than
the J/24, yet less training is required, and less supervision
afterwards is required.

Is the sailing club being too strict, the leasing company being too
lax, or am I missing something?

Thanks for any input!

wrote:
I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
however.


None, of course. Or a lifetime's worth, depending.

That's one of the fun things about sailing.

The sailing club (http://www.sailmanhattan.com/) requires a total of
22 hours of training, and they have J/24 sailboats. Even then, one is
not allowed to sail their boats without a more experienced person being
the skipper.

The leasing company (http://www.pinnacleyachts.com/) requires 15 hours
of instruction, and they have Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 yachts, and once
you have learned, you are allowed to take them out on your own.

What confuses me is, I would think the 37 footer would be harder than
the J/24, yet less training is required, and less supervision
afterwards is required.


Check the difference in cost. It may be that the leasing
company is charging more to cover more of the amortizing of
the boat plus insurance. In either event, the sailing club
is all but guaranteed to be a better environment for
learning to sail well.

Is the sailing club being too strict, the leasing company being too
lax, or am I missing something?


Dave wrote:
Before you spend a lot of money on either, I'd check into the virtually free
program run by parks and rec in Flushing Meadow Park. They sail dinghies,
but that's probably a better way to learn than starting with a keel boat
anyway. Then if you wish move up to the keel boats.

Agreed. It may be counter-intuitive to some, but sailing
small boats is harder because it's more pure and it's
unbuffered. If you mess up, the boat dumps you in the drink
and laughs at you. OTOH the bigger boats have more complex
systems to master, and they have engines. And they are much
more suited to maintaining (or even enhancing) your personal
dignity.

The next step from there is to get on a racing crew and keep
your ears open. Approached properly, 'learning to sail' is
an infinite process because it encompasses a HUGE range of
endeavor... once you have learned to handle a small boat,
you can learn reefing & roll tacking... then move on to
spinnakers & navigating... meteorology & astronomy,
composites engineering... the scope is literally infinite!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I do not know your age and your time schedule.
One of the best place to start learning the ropes is the Power Squadron.
They have excellent classroom courses on basic boating, sailing and
navigation. Also some of the yacht clubs have on the water cruising courses.
Other have racing courses.
First Aid training or refresher course comes very handy.

If your intent to charter a sailboat the leasing company is the place to go.
If you intent to sail a boat with and without an engine in all conditions
the training on the J/24 sailboats or its equilvalent is a good start. Each
model of sailboat handles and reacts differently. Some people do charter
sailboats every year and learning to handle the type of boat the leasing
company is a good choice. When the engine stops, when you go aground or
something goes wrong you call them on the VHF or the cell phone and help is
on the way. When you own your boat the situation is different.
"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On 23 Dec 2005 09:09:19 -0800, wrote:

Hi,

I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
however.

The sailing club (http://www.sailmanhattan.com/) requires a total of
22 hours of training, and they have J/24 sailboats. Even then, one is
not allowed to sail their boats without a more experienced person being
the skipper.

The leasing company (http://www.pinnacleyachts.com/) requires 15 hours
of instruction, and they have Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 yachts, and once
you have learned, you are allowed to take them out on your own.

What confuses me is, I would think the 37 footer would be harder than
the J/24, yet less training is required, and less supervision
afterwards is required.

Is the sailing club being too strict, the leasing company being too
lax, or am I missing something?


I think you are missing a lot. They are two VERY different situations, and
at
very different prices. You need to look at each in depth and see what
happens
when you apply ALL of the fine print attached to each.




Commodore Joe Redcloud

Check the difference in cost. It may be that the leasing
company is charging more to cover more of the amortizing of
the boat plus insurance. In either event, the sailing club
is all but guaranteed to be a better environment for
learning to sail well.

The leasing company is definitely more expensive, but the boats are
also a lot more appealing to me. I just want to make sure I am not
being foolish by taking on a large boat with just a few days training.
What I would really like to do is go on a multi day trip, which the
sailing club does not make available.

Thanks to everybody for the feedback!

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
however.

The sailing club (http://www.sailmanhattan.com/) requires a total of
22 hours of training, and they have J/24 sailboats. Even then, one is
not allowed to sail their boats without a more experienced person being
the skipper.

The leasing company (http://www.pinnacleyachts.com/) requires 15 hours
of instruction, and they have Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 yachts, and once
you have learned, you are allowed to take them out on your own.

What confuses me is, I would think the 37 footer would be harder than
the J/24, yet less training is required, and less supervision
afterwards is required.

Is the sailing club being too strict, the leasing company being too
lax, or am I missing something?

Thanks for any input!

The J24 is a harder boat to sail than the jeaneau. Its a racing yacht
designed for speed with little comfort. Along with that comes a very
responsive boat that is not too forgiving. That's a good thing! You feel the
breeze and wave action more on a smaller boat and get "the feel" faster.

Usually ( I say usually -not always) there are only part time instructors at
Clubs. On the other hand schools have pro instructors and ,at the risk of
insulting some clubs, the school courses are more structured as they are
answerable to the client.

However it depends on what sort of sailing you are planning to do. If you
want to spend your time chartering larger boats in romantic destinations you
will be better with the Jenneau. But if you want to race or buy a smaller
yacht you will be better off learning on the J24.

Btw, those hours they have quoted would be the minimum. You will not be a
good sailor at that point and will need to continue with training and
plenty of hours on board to get more and more experience. I have been
sailing nearly 30 years, have done ocean deliveries and raced very heavily.
I have taught sailing professionally. But still learn something new nearly
every time out.

DP

On 23 Dec 2005 11:46:01 -0800, wrote:

Check the difference in cost. It may be that the leasing
company is charging more to cover more of the amortizing of
the boat plus insurance. In either event, the sailing club
is all but guaranteed to be a better environment for
learning to sail well.

The leasing company is definitely more expensive, but the boats are
also a lot more appealing to me. I just want to make sure I am not
being foolish by taking on a large boat with just a few days training.
What I would really like to do is go on a multi day trip, which the
sailing club does not make available.

Thanks to everybody for the feedback!

I see that someone else mentioned Power Squadron - They do classroom
training in basic boating safety, rules of the road, and coastal
navigation (but no on-the-water training). If you plan on cruising,
you should take their course, as well as a practical sailing course.

Around here, the charter companies/sailing schools offer "Cruise and
Learn" courses - several students go for a 5 - 7 day cruise, with an
instructor. This would be better than the basic 15 hour course you
mentioned, as you would get to experience everything that happens
during a cruise - including tying up at a foreign marina, anchoring,
cooking, navigation....


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

wrote in news:1135357759.496030.174530
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
however.



I think you need Option 3, but I know how hard it is for a New Yorker to
think about.....

Option 3 is to head on down to the docks and actually make some friends.
I've only been bitten by a couple of yachtsmen and neither wound was
fatal, obviously. You'll very soon be able to spot the social misfits
and hermits from the nice people who own sailboats. Go find some nice
folks.

What do you "do"? Can you fix mechanical stuff? sand and paint? do
electrical or electronic work? Help fix the damned leaky sink faucet?
Know anything about cabinetry? sew? I'm trying to point out what those
nice people you just met need on their boat you might be able to lend a
hand with, or outright fix for them. You'd be AMAZED how friendly a
yachtsman can be if YOU are the guy who figured out how to stop the head
from leaking or got that electrical outlet in the galley to work, again.

Know anything about diesel engines or transmissions? Battery DC power
systems? Why the fuel guage only works occasionally? How to change the
fuel filter? We're talking BIGTIME "Welcome Aboard", here!

I used to have some small boats. I've had them since I was a little kid.
I can't afford a $200K yacht. So, that's what I did. I was friends with
a guy whos wife I helped get her ham radio license. I helped him on his
electrical problems on his Cal 39' sloop. The guy across his dock was a
liveaboard medical researcher in a Hatteras 56' motor yacht. I got
introduced. The doctor and I are great friends for many years, even
though our worlds are light years apart and he doesn't have the Hat any
more. One yachtsman introduced me to the most fantastic Englishman I
ever met. I sail on his yacht all year. Hell, I brought it back from
Florida when he paid for it. I've completely outfitted it with the
finest electronics. I found its "new-used" Perkins 4-108 on this very
newsgroup in NC. I rebuilt its DC electrical system. Last year, I spent
March in Daytona Beach aboard it while my English friend went back to his
office in Atlanta to work. That vacation cost me a hundred dollars and
was almost 40 days long, including sailing it home in the Gulfstreamer
offshore sailboat race from Ponce Inlet, FL to our home base in
Charleston, SC.

You'll learn more sailing with these experienced yachtsmen, even just
cruising around Long Island Sound having a great time, than that sailing
school will trying to rush you through to maximize profits. All you have
to do is a little manual labor of love and, take it from me, the most
welcome guest coming up the gangway.

Newbie hint - If he invites you sailing, be SURE to hang around after you
get back to the dock and help CLEAN UP THE BOAT! His rich guests never
help clean anything...(c; Point out the wine some broad spilled on the
teak and ask where the cleaning supplies are you can't find. Don't wait
to be asked to help. He won't do that. Just do it... Doing up the
dishes is a SURE sign the WIFE will want you back aboard! You ate her
lunch. It's your duty to clean that galley, even if there are no hints.

One of my yachtie friends took me aboard a Hat 51 yacht-fishing boat,
today. I met the owner who is restoring this nice boat. I'll be working
over the electronics on it by next spring...(c; It's a great project
boat...and, it's fridge is always full of fine beers.

On 23 Dec 2005 09:09:19 -0800, wrote:

Hi,

I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
however.

The sailing club (http://www.sailmanhattan.com/) requires a total of
22 hours of training, and they have J/24 sailboats. Even then, one is
not allowed to sail their boats without a more experienced person being
the skipper.

The leasing company (http://www.pinnacleyachts.com/) requires 15 hours
of instruction, and they have Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 yachts, and once
you have learned, you are allowed to take them out on your own.

What confuses me is, I would think the 37 footer would be harder than
the J/24, yet less training is required, and less supervision
afterwards is required.

Is the sailing club being too strict, the leasing company being too
lax, or am I missing something?

Thanks for any input!

I noticed that two posters suggested taking Power Squadron courses.
While I admire the Power Squadron volunteers, they offer only
classroom instruction. Studying the theory of docking, anchoring,
sail trim, MOB, etc. is not akin to actually docking, anchoring,
trimming sails and practicing MOB under power and sail. I could
produce a more comprehensive list, but I think I made the point.

You might check out the American Sailing Association schools in your
your vicinity
(http://www.american-sailing.com/lear...ng_school.html)

Or US Sailing http://www.ussailing.org/community/wts/

The instructors in these organizations are not volunteers. They are
either part-time or full-time paid instructors. They have an
on-the-water component to their certification.

I noticed that one of Pinnacle's bases is in Seattle. I can assure
that 15 hours is NOT sufficient to sail in the Pacific Northwest.

BTW - I am neither an ASA or US Sailing instructor.

Jack

_________________________________________
Jack Dale
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor
CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
_________________________________________

On 23 Dec 2005 09:09:19 -0800, wrote:
I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
however.

The sailing club (http://www.sailmanhattan.com/) requires a total of
22 hours of training, and they have J/24 sailboats. Even then, one is
not allowed to sail their boats without a more experienced person being
the skipper.

The leasing company (http://www.pinnacleyachts.com/) requires 15 hours
of instruction, and they have Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 yachts, and once
you have learned, you are allowed to take them out on your own.

================================================== =

In my humble opinion you are not qualified to take out a 37 footer on
your own after 15 hours of instruction unless you already know quite a
bit about boating in general, and navigation in particular. They may
run a fine program, but believe me when I say that it takes more
experience then that to go out safely.

Manhattan Sailing school has been around for a long time and it sounds
like they have a more common sense approach. NY Harbor is a fun place
to sail and the J24s are good training boats. I'd go for it. You'll
probably meet some interesting people as a bonus.

In article .com,
wrote:

Hi,

I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
however.

The sailing club (http://www.sailmanhattan.com/) requires a total of
22 hours of training, and they have J/24 sailboats. Even then, one is
not allowed to sail their boats without a more experienced person being
the skipper.

The leasing company (http://www.pinnacleyachts.com/) requires 15 hours
of instruction, and they have Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 yachts, and once
you have learned, you are allowed to take them out on your own.

What confuses me is, I would think the 37 footer would be harder than
the J/24, yet less training is required, and less supervision
afterwards is required.

Is the sailing club being too strict, the leasing company being too
lax, or am I missing something?

Thanks for any input!

David, all the responses are thoughtful and well informed.

I will take a different approach. How much do you value your life and
those you will take sailing with you?

For most of us old salts/farts, at some point, equipment failure or
unexpected weather (shrouds failing, unexpected fog, rogue gusts or
waves, ferries in narrow channels, someone who didn't know or care about
the rules of the road, mismarked charts, etc.) created situations that
required correct action to avoid (or at least mitigate) danger.

The more sailing instruction (courses, books, sailing with knowledgable
folks), the more likely you will respond correctly yourself. A power
squadron course saved my life. Advice from more experienced boats has
too. Some ideas from books were pretty important to my well being.

If you care about yourself and your sailing compatriots, at this point
in your life, get as much "instruction" as you can. No amount is enough
or too much.

Be safe, courteous and have fun.

harlan

--
To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"?