Andy wrote:
Gary wrote:

Andy wrote:


My wife and I bought a 36 footer and cruised from San Diego to Panama
City and back after about 24 hours of instruction, a few day sails
around San Diego Bay, and copious amounts of reading about cruising,
navigation, anchoring, etc.


You are very lucky.

Gaz


Why do you say we were very lucky? What exactly does one need a lot of
experience with before going coastal cruising that can't be learned
from books?

Lots experience counts. A lot depends on where you cruise and the boat.
Of course in very mild areas with a small basic boat there is less to
learn.

The actual sailing part of cruising is pretty simple and
straightfoward. While it could easily take a lifetime to master the art
of sailing for maximum speed, for purposes of cruising you just need to
know how to roughly trim the sails.

Sailing is easy until the weather turns against you then some experience
is a big asset.
Navigation, especially with a GPS, is pretty straightforward and can be
learned from books.
Of course but once the GAPS fails then experience counts. Whip out the
sky wrench and a book. Pull out HO 249 and a pencil. Lets find land.

Anchoring is an important skill, but it can really be learned from
books, and getting an oversized anchor can provide a good safety
margin.]
Tell that to the hundreds who have experienced dragging or weighing in
adverse conditions. Or anchored where it is deep, rocky and windy.

The other skill needed for cruising, which is repair and maintenance of
the boat and its systems, is not really taught in sailing courses
anyways, and in any event, those can be picked up from books too.

It is taught in the advanced courses.
Andy

Of course everything can be learned from a book but nothing counts like
experience. Sometimes looking it up in the book is too slow.

Gaz

On 25 Dec 2005 20:39:47 -0800, "Andy"
wrote:



I agree that 15 hours of instruction, alone, is not enough to make you
ready to take out a 37 foot boat safely, but I think that if you
combine those 15 hours of instruction with about 40 to 80 hours of
study with the right books it could be adequate.



Andy

In my experience as an instructor, the major factor in coming a
confident competent sailor is helm time.

Jack

_________________________________________
Jack Dale
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor
CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
_________________________________________

In article .com,
wrote:

Hi,

I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
however.

The sailing club (http://www.sailmanhattan.com/) requires a total of
22 hours of training, and they have J/24 sailboats. Even then, one is
not allowed to sail their boats without a more experienced person being
the skipper.

The leasing company (http://www.pinnacleyachts.com/) requires 15 hours
of instruction, and they have Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 yachts, and once
you have learned, you are allowed to take them out on your own.

What confuses me is, I would think the 37 footer would be harder than
the J/24, yet less training is required, and less supervision
afterwards is required.

Is the sailing club being too strict, the leasing company being too
lax, or am I missing something?

Thanks for any input!

David, all the responses are thoughtful and well informed.

I will take a different approach. How much do you value your life and
those you will take sailing with you?

For most of us old salts/farts, at some point, equipment failure or
unexpected weather (shrouds failing, unexpected fog, rogue gusts or
waves, ferries in narrow channels, someone who didn't know or care about
the rules of the road, mismarked charts, etc.) created situations that
required correct action to avoid (or at least mitigate) danger.

The more sailing instruction (courses, books, sailing with knowledgable
folks), the more likely you will respond correctly yourself. A power
squadron course saved my life. Advice from more experienced boats has
too. Some ideas from books were pretty important to my well being.

If you care about yourself and your sailing compatriots, at this point
in your life, get as much "instruction" as you can. No amount is enough
or too much.

Be safe, courteous and have fun.

harlan

--
To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"?

wrote:
: I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
: am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
: leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
: however.
:
: The sailing club (http://www.sailmanhattan.com/) requires a total of
: 22 hours of training, and they have J/24 sailboats. Even then, one is
: not allowed to sail their boats without a more experienced person being
: the skipper.
:
: The leasing company (http://www.pinnacleyachts.com/) requires 15 hours
: of instruction, and they have Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 yachts, and once
: you have learned, you are allowed to take them out on your own.
:
: What confuses me is, I would think the 37 footer would be harder than
: the J/24, yet less training is required, and less supervision
: afterwards is required.
:
: Is the sailing club being too strict, the leasing company being too
: lax, or am I missing something?

I live in Jersey City and have taken courses at all three clubs
on the New York Harbor. In addition to your
http://www.sailmanhattan.com/
check out
http://www.sailtruenorth.com/
and http://www.aroundtheharbor.com/
Note that aroundtheharbor is the nyc chapter of
http://www.offshore-sailing.com/

Truenorth and offshore are both on the Jersey side. Truenorth
is right at the Pavonia/Newport PATH station, very easily accessible.
Offshore is PATH to Pavonia, then Light Rail to Liberty State Park,
then a 10-minute walk to Liberty Landing Gate D, where its boats are.
All three are approximately the same price for classes and club
memberships. Truenorth also has J/24's; offshore has Colgate 26's
(roughly the same thing, but easier and quicker to set up).

Offshore has the easiest boat use policy -- there's no "skipper"
designation, and any two club members can reserve and take out
a boat. In fact, I've found myself in some uncomfortable situations
on offshore boats, assuming people knew what they were doing when
they didn't. Both other clubs have more rigid policies.
Nevertheless, all in all, I personally like offshore the best.
But call/visit all three yourself.

As others said, you might not really want to bareboat charter
a 37-foot boat immediately. Maybe visit the local clubs and
find some (more experienced) people to split your first few
charters with.

By the way, if your email is also your website, then (a)congratulations,
and (b)inappropriate sailing wardrobe . Get some sailing gloves and
canvas deck shoes (or more expensive ones if you like) at West Marine,
12 West 37th Street.
--
John Forkosh ( mailto: where j=john and f=forkosh )

One thing to consider is whether the particular sailing school you
choose is generally known and accredited, and whether their certificates
of class completion are generally accepted by other schools, charter
companies, etc. For example, I think that the classes from American
Sailing School, and Annapolis Sailing Schools, etc., include training in
a number of prescribed subjects, with OTW (on the water) and classroom
work on each, followed by OTW and written exams. Thus, if you pass the
tests, you (and others) have some assurance that you learned the basics
of sailing that you were supposed to learn. Also, they offer a
progressive series of courses, beginning with an introductory sailing
course (basics of sailing, points of sail, man overboard, rules of the
road, boat nomenclature, etc.) followed by more advanced courses,
progressing to a course providing a certificate stating that you are
qualified to charter larger boats, etc. - The point is that you might
want to start with a training school that will provide graduation
letters or certificates that will be accepted for the more advanced
courses that you may want to take later on. - (Sort of like taking the
appropriate prerequisites in college for the more advanced second and
third-year courses.) Otherwise, you might have to repeat the training
of a local, non-recogized "school." Of course, if you just want to take
an introductory weekend course at a nominal cost, you won't loose much
and will be on your way.

Jim


wrote:

Hi,

I live in NYC, and am looking to do some sailing this coming season. I
am looking at two options: a local sailing club, and a company that
leases yachts. I am confused as to how much training is required,
however.

The sailing club (http://www.sailmanhattan.com/) requires a total of
22 hours of training, and they have J/24 sailboats. Even then, one is
not allowed to sail their boats without a more experienced person being
the skipper.

The leasing company (http://www.pinnacleyachts.com/) requires 15 hours
of instruction, and they have Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 yachts, and once
you have learned, you are allowed to take them out on your own.

What confuses me is, I would think the 37 footer would be harder than
the J/24, yet less training is required, and less supervision
afterwards is required.

Is the sailing club being too strict, the leasing company being too
lax, or am I missing something?

Thanks for any input!

Any method that give you the most "TIME ON THE WATER" will be the
fastest route towards 'mastery' of sailing.

There is NO SUBSTITUE to "DOING IT", not books, not schools, not marina
residents nor newsgroup denizens. Nothing builds sailing skills faster
than simply doing it. As regards the 'size' of the boat the smallest
sailing dinghy will teach 'you' faster because of its relative
instability, the immediate feedback from the boat when something is
'wrong'/right, etc. A larger boat is erroneously easier to sail
because EVERYTHING that happens is much s-l-o-w-e-r to happen and many
of the actions/reaction are 'dampened' by the large mass of the boat.
Get copies of "Chapmans", Annapolis School of Seamanship", etc. read
them over and over then get out on the water in anything you can
afford, borrow, etc.

Want to learn sailing quickly: buy a cheap re-saleable daysailing
dinghy, beat the hell out of it (and yourself) while you are learning
and looking for the 'next' (larger) boat, sell the dinghy for a profit
and move up, etc. until you arrive at your 'plateau' then think about a
'school', etc. Make a plan and follow it. What ever you do dont
assume that a BIG boat is the place to start as a big boat will take
all the skills you learned in small tippy dinghies .... plus some. It
will take YEARS to learn how to sail on a big boat ... only a season or
two on a 'little' boat - and those skills can be used on a big boat
(not always vice versa). Take one 'bite' at a time. Look at or
compare becoming a pilot in general aviation (small) aircraft: no one
starts flying in a 747 jumbo jet as their 'entry' to that sport. They
usuallly start in the smaller 'sport' planes and then move up. How
rapid the 'move up' depends on how much *time* you spend on the water.

If you want to accelerate your 'training' beside the above, go down to
the local 'racing fleet' on a Wednesday night and see if someone needs
extra 'crew' ... they usually do. Tell them your sailing experience
and see if you can fit their needs .... the (free) training on a
racecourse as crew will be astronomical. When the race is over/won,
then start to ask your questions of the crew ... good sailors will
share their knowledge openly and freely. When you get home open one of
the zillions of 'sailing books' and study, etc., ask questioins next
time out, etc. Just carefully pick a race boat/skipper that isnt an
arrogant loudmouthed dictator, etc.

"Time on the water" is the BEST teacher.
If you are married, etc. get your wife, etc. interested .... and turn
the boat over to HER. If she 'likes' sailing .... you wont have any
choice (nor future disappointments)!!!

Hope this helps, see ya on the water