On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:41:53 -0500, "Jonathan W."
wrote:

We had occasion two weekends ago to reconsider the matter of removing
large amounts of water from a boat in a hurry. This event caused by
crossing inside of the green day mark #3 marking the Middle Ground ledge
in Woods Hole, MA.

Thanks for another instructive lesson on why eyes trump electronics.

You were lucky and you didn't lose your head, which probably saved
your boat.

Did you consider fothering a sail around the stern, or did you know
that you could restore the rudder?

R.

Jonathan W. wrote:
We had occasion two weekends ago to reconsider the matter of removing
large amounts of water from a boat in a hurry. This event caused by
crossing inside of the green day mark #3 marking the Middle Ground ledge
in Woods Hole, MA.

While the events leading up to this are still being debated among those
onboard, part of the problem appeared to be a fixation on the part of
the skipper/helmsman with electronic charting over the real world. If
the course had been adjusted when the alarm had first been raised,(by
humans) or the second or third time, there would have been no incident
to reflect on.

...

Thanks for the description. I go through there several times a year
and each time I have to remind my crew that things will come at us
very fast. First of all, its hard to appreciate what a 6 knot current
can do. And the chart normally used is a much larger scale than most
people are used to; the marks at the corner are only about 75 yards
apart. Normally, you can figure it out as you go, but this is a spot
best handled at slack the first time through.

The first time I let my wife take the helm she made the turn OK, but
then looked over her shoulder, marveling at the buoy being pulled
over. In that second we were swept across the channel almost into Nun 2.

I've learned to give everyone a *very* wide berth there.

Jonathan,

I have a contractor's "mud pump" that I purchased at Harbor Freight.
It is a large centrifugal pump with 2 inch intake and discharge
attached to a 3 HP [or maybe 5 HP] gasoline engine. I got a long
wire-reinforced plastic hose from a local industrial supplier for the
intake. I got a fire hose for the discharge.

I used it during Hurricane Isabel to help "dewater" some boats at the
marina where my boat is slipped. It was pretty powerful, sucking the
water out rather quickly. I do not know how many gallons per minute
it is supposed to pump, but in the real world it pumped a lot.

I also purchased a fire-hose nozzle for the discharge. This will
allow me to use it to put out fires if necessary.

I have not had to use the pump on my boat yet. But one time I did
start taking on water and it sure was reassuring to know that if I
could not solve the problem quickly I could crank up the pump to keep
a problem from turning into a crisis.

As best I recall the pump and hoses cost me around $250 total.

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
on the hard at Bock Marine
Beaufort, NC

Jonathan,

I also meant to share with you another thing I have done to help in a
situation like you found yourself. I installed a Y valve in the
raw-water intake for the engine. One side of the Y goes to the normal
thru-hull. The other side of the Y is attached to a long,
wire-reinforced plastic hose. Most of the time the Y valve is set to
draw water from the thru-hull side. In case of an emergency I can
quickly and easily switch the Y valve to the other side and put the
hose into the bilge, thus using the engine as an extra bilge pump.

The arrangement is also useful when it is time to winterize the
engine. I fill up a container with antifreeze, put the hose into the
container, switch the Y valve, and within seconds the raw-water system
is filled with antifreeze.

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
on the hard at Bock Marine
Beaufort, NC

Lee Huddleston wrote:

Jonathan,

I also meant to share with you another thing I have done to help in a
situation like you found yourself. I installed a Y valve in the
raw-water intake for the engine. One side of the Y goes to the normal
thru-hull. The other side of the Y is attached to a long,
wire-reinforced plastic hose. Most of the time the Y valve is set to
draw water from the thru-hull side. In case of an emergency I can
quickly and easily switch the Y valve to the other side and put the
hose into the bilge, thus using the engine as an extra bilge pump.

The arrangement is also useful when it is time to winterize the
engine. I fill up a container with antifreeze, put the hose into the
container, switch the Y valve, and within seconds the raw-water system
is filled with antifreeze.

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove
on the hard at Bock Marine
Beaufort, NC



The boat in question is not mine,I was a passenger/crew.

Though, I note, my boat does in fact have a Y valve set up similar to
what you describe.

My Alberg 35 doesn't have a storage space big enough for a trash pump,
engine and hose, but the Rule pump Towboat US brought aboard would fit
away easily.

I've cited it because I'd never seen one before, didn't know it existed.

The Coast Guard's trash pump worked very well

Jonathan

--
I am building my daughter an Argie 10 sailing dinghy, check it out:
http://home.comcast.net/~jonsailr

Lee Huddleston wrote:
I also meant to share with you another thing I have done to help in a
situation like you found yourself. I installed a Y valve in the
raw-water intake for the engine.

That's a really good idea, especially if you can mount the
Y-valve where it is easily accessible. The "inside" suction
should be mounted to a large & strong strainer.

.... One side of the Y goes to the normal
thru-hull. The other side of the Y is attached to a long,
wire-reinforced plastic hose. Most of the time the Y valve is set to
draw water from the thru-hull side. In case of an emergency I can
quickly and easily switch the Y valve to the other side and put the
hose into the bilge, thus using the engine as an extra bilge pump.


Not sure if I like the idea of the flex hose, why would you
ever want to put an engine raw water pump suction to a
movable hose?


The arrangement is also useful when it is time to winterize the
engine. I fill up a container with antifreeze, put the hose into the
container, switch the Y valve, and within seconds the raw-water system
is filled with antifreeze.


That's a bit drastic, you can pour it full of antifreeze
easily if you put a small plug or cock at a high point in
the piping... I use the plug that hold the zinc in one of
the heat exchangers.

Aside fromt that, one of the nice things about NC is you
really don't have to winterize if you don't want to.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Lee Huddleston wrote:

I also meant to share with you another thing I have done to help in a
situation like you found yourself. I installed a Y valve in the
raw-water intake for the engine.


That's a really good idea, especially if you can mount the Y-valve where
it is easily accessible. The "inside" suction should be mounted to a
large & strong strainer.

.... One side of the Y goes to the normal
thru-hull. The other side of the Y is attached to a long,
wire-reinforced plastic hose. Most of the time the Y valve is set to
draw water from the thru-hull side. In case of an emergency I can
quickly and easily switch the Y valve to the other side and put the
hose into the bilge, thus using the engine as an extra bilge pump.


Not sure if I like the idea of the flex hose, why would you ever want to
put an engine raw water pump suction to a movable hose?


The arrangement is also useful when it is time to winterize the
engine. I fill up a container with antifreeze, put the hose into the
container, switch the Y valve, and within seconds the raw-water system
is filled with antifreeze.


That's a bit drastic, you can pour it full of antifreeze easily if you
put a small plug or cock at a high point in the piping... I use the plug
that hold the zinc in one of the heat exchangers.

Aside fromt that, one of the nice things about NC is you really don't
have to winterize if you don't want to.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

My boat has a Y valve to direct raw water suction to the bilge. It does
work as a bilge pump but was put there to rinse the raw water side of
the cooling system with fresh water. In extremis if the bilge pumps
couldn't keep up it is one more option.

DSK wrote:
Lee Huddleston wrote:

I also meant to share with you another thing I have done to help in a
situation like you found yourself. I installed a Y valve in the
raw-water intake for the engine.


That's a really good idea, especially if you can mount the Y-valve where
it is easily accessible. The "inside" suction should be mounted to a
large & strong strainer.

At least my little diesel (Volvo 2001) pumps so little water - less than
10 litres per minute - that it wouldn't help. A frightened man with a
bucket is much more efficent.

Markus

you may want to consider a gasoline powered water pump, like the ones
the coasties dump to a boat in distress, harbor frieght carries Pacer ,
a name brand multi purpose, self priming pump. moves alot of water real
fast.