Unfortunately, there are still a high
percentage of morons out there that continue to contribute to the
image of jet-skiers as clueless fools or dangerous assholes.

Keep at it though... keep at it.

(Alright, I changed my mind, I will "take the bait" to an extent)

Keep at it? I intend to, and I have been "at it" for years now...
by "it" I mean trying to educate people about pwc's, who uses them, and
how,
and also actively fighting bans that I and lots of other people feel
are patently unfair. (Going to
public meetings, writing letters, signing petitions, joining clubs,
supporting organizations
that fight for my rights to use public waterways, and "representing" on
behalf of the pwc community every time I go out on the water.)

And I and my friends in the effort have had a good amount of success in
this effort. I've probably
educated just about anyone I came in contact with over the last eight
years, who had
any interest in the subject of boating, friends, relatives, and
especially fellow boaters, about things they
never realized about pwc's, what people do with them, the fact that one
has to get licensed
to operate them, people are amazed and surprised by the ambitious
travel cruises and vacations we use
them for, the new clean technologies in use and the unbelievable range
and fuel efficiency,
and just the type of people (intelligent, respectable, respectful,
family-man-type, law-abiding, sensible grownups basically - like me and
pretty much everyone I have ridden with) who enjoy and own them, in
contrast to their stereotype-informed notions.....and more importantly,
there are almost no bans in effect anywhere in the tri-state area where
I do most of my boating, although the state has a law that allows towns
to enact
pwc bans, almost none of them have (a few tiny exceptions, Montauk
Harbor, although they won't hassle
us if we idle in to get fuel on the way back from Block Island; also
Point Pleasant Canal in NJ, so we have to
take the long route on the ocean to get to Barnegat Bay which we don't
mind a bit!)....and basically my many pwc'ing friends and I have
no problems with any of the hundreds or thousands of other boaters we
come in contact with out in the Long Island
Sound, the Great South Bay, the Hudson River, the Atlantic Ocean, New
York Harbor, Staten Island.....I never feel
like a second-class citizen, am never called names like an annoying
mosquito or clueless moron, basically anywhere in the world except here
in this thread. So this makes me very confident that my efforts on
behalf of myself and my fellow pwc'ers has been pretty successful in
fighting prejucide ad stereortypes....

and most importantly, most of the national park bans that were
temporarily enacted a few years back, have been rolled back or
eliminated as the scientific evidence from the mandated environmental
impact studies, plus of course public opinion on the matter, has rolled
in, including two local areas, Fire Island National Seashore and
Gateway National Park, have been largely rolled back and just replaced
with some milder restrictions....so again I know my continuing efforts,
and those of many others, to educate people and fight for our own
rights, have met with some degree of success, and I certainly plan to
as you say "keep at it."

If you consider me your enemy and hope I fail in my efforts, well, then
I guess that's the way it is, hopefully you're going to meetings too
and arguing for increased pwc bans, that's your right. But really
having heard from me, I would think that you would actually afford me
some respect, "j.," based on my being obviously a fairly educated,
informed, passionate, serious and very active fellow boater. You seem
to want to position me in an opposing camp from you because you have
had negative experiences with other pwc'ers before, but the way I see
it, we are really on the same side and in the same boat, as it were.
You should want me and every other safe, competent, educated,
responsible boater to have access to the public waterways, just as
surely as you want every unsafe, dangerous, idiotic boater off the
water.

richforman

In article .com,
wrote:
Unfortunately, there are still a high
percentage of morons out there that continue to contribute to the
image of jet-skiers as clueless fools or dangerous assholes.

Keep at it though... keep at it.

(Alright, I changed my mind, I will "take the bait" to an extent)

Keep at it? I intend to, and I have been "at it" for years now...
by "it" I mean trying to educate people about pwc's, who uses them, and

And, I have no problem with that, and I'm glad you're doing
it. There's a lot of work to do! (NOT A DIG ... jeez, now I'm editing
myself for a jet-skier!)

in this thread. So this makes me very confident that my efforts on
behalf of myself and my fellow pwc'ers has been pretty successful in
fighting prejucide ad stereortypes....

Not quite enough... suggestion... how about educating the ones who are
still on the water with the noisy, pollution machines. According to
your own words, those people are the ones giving your group a bad
name.

and most importantly, most of the national park bans that were
temporarily enacted a few years back, have been rolled back or
eliminated as the scientific evidence from the mandated environmental
impact studies, plus of course public opinion on the matter, has rolled
in, including two local areas, Fire Island National Seashore and
Gateway National Park, have been largely rolled back and just replaced
with some milder restrictions....so again I know my continuing efforts,
and those of many others, to educate people and fight for our own
rights, have met with some degree of success, and I certainly plan to
as you say "keep at it."

If it is shown that jet-skier are not damaging the physical environment nor
disturbing the quiet enjoyment of others, I have no problem with them
on public waterways.

If you consider me your enemy and hope I fail in my efforts, well, then
I guess that's the way it is, hopefully you're going to meetings too
and arguing for increased pwc bans, that's your right. But really

I only argue for what makes sense. You think I'm the enemy because of
my first-hand experience with jet skies. That's your right.

having heard from me, I would think that you would actually afford me
some respect, "j.," based on my being obviously a fairly educated,
informed, passionate, serious and very active fellow boater. You seem

I certainly afford you "some" respect.

to want to position me in an opposing camp from you because you have
had negative experiences with other pwc'ers before, but the way I see
it, we are really on the same side and in the same boat, as it were.

I'm not putting you in any camp. I'm telling you what my experience
has been from the time the jet ski first arrived. If things get
better, as you claim they are, then that's just peachy!

You should want me and every other safe, competent, educated,
responsible boater to have access to the public waterways, just as
surely as you want every unsafe, dangerous, idiotic boater off the
water.

The problem is that there is a huge prejudice against jet skiers. A
couple of posts on usenet are not going to change that. What will
change that is observable evidence by more and more people.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Keep at it? I intend to, and I have been "at it" for years now...
by "it" I mean trying to educate people about pwc's, who uses them, and

And, I have no problem with that, and I'm glad you're doing
it. There's a lot of work to do! (NOT A DIG

Thanks for the support and I wouldn't have taken that last sentence as
a dig - I agree with it
and realize it.

I certainly afford you "some" respect.

And I you.

... this makes me very confident that my efforts on
behalf of myself and my fellow pwc'ers has been pretty successful in
fighting prejucide ad stereortypes....

Not quite enough... suggestion... how about educating the ones who are
still on the water with the noisy, pollution machines. According to
your own words, those people are the ones giving your group a bad
name.

You're right - and I do that too. All of us more experienced
knowledgeable pwc'ers
always make it a point to take newer owners and operators out on the
water and
show them the ropes, try to help them avoid mistakes or let them know
when they're making them,
or offer advice and share information online in message-boards etc (and
I'm no guru or anything
myself, but have learned a decent amount in eight years of riding).

As for the "noisy pollution machines," well obviously it's just a
matter of time
as they continue to be very naturally outnumbered phased out, since all
the manufacturers are under
strict new EPA regulations and have just more and more
prominently/exclusively
offered newer-tech, cleaner/quieter boats....just as in the power
boating industry at large.
I think you'll agree that there are plenty of "Noisy pollution
machines" on the water besides
older pwc's, in fact, other power boats seem to have longer life
cycles, change hands more times
and stay on the water for years or decades....at any rate, there's no
shortage of noisy and polluting,
or older-tech (carb'ed 2-stroke) engines still on the water in all
kinds of boats....that condition is far
from exclusive to the pwc world. And with all types of boats including
pwc's, the handwriting is clearly
on the wall, that an increasingly greater percentage of them will be
cleaner and quieter and less polluting
year after year due to market forces as well as government mandates.
That part of it is not really in my hand
or yours (I/we can't force individual people to retire their older
dirtier louder machines until they want to), but
happily, that's the way things are going and will continue to go.

The problem is that there is a huge prejudice against jet skiers. A
couple of posts on usenet are not going to change that. What will
change that is observable evidence by more and more people.

I just snipped out one of my usual long-winded responses - I'll just
say this, I think a lot of
progress has already been made, I don't really encounter any prejudiced
anti-pwc attitude
out in the real world, and I really don't see too many problems with it
going on out on the water,
and I'm out there a LOT, and cover a lot of ground and see a lot of
fellow pwc'ers coexisting and
interacting with all other fellow boaters, fishermen, law enforcement,
kayakers (oh I'm one of them too btw, don't know
if that would surprise you or anything - someone earlier in this thread
I remember opined that pwc'ers
probably don't really love the water or the outdoors, only speed, I
guess that stereotype is pretty much deflated), surfers, pretty
peacefully, successfully and non-problematically. I think a lot of it
is due to the mandatory education requirement that's been in effect for
the last five years or six
years or so around here in NY, NJ and Ct.

richforman
richforman

ok...

In article .com,
wrote:
Keep at it? I intend to, and I have been "at it" for years now...
by "it" I mean trying to educate people about pwc's, who uses them, and

Yep.

Not quite enough... suggestion... how about educating the ones who are
still on the water with the noisy, pollution machines. According to
your own words, those people are the ones giving your group a bad
name.

You're right - and I do that too. All of us more experienced
knowledgeable pwc'ers
always make it a point to take newer owners and operators out on the
water and
show them the ropes, try to help them avoid mistakes or let them know


Kewl.

year after year due to market forces as well as government mandates.
That part of it is not really in my hand
or yours (I/we can't force individual people to retire their older
dirtier louder machines until they want to), but

How about a buy back program... good deals on trade-ins.

The problem is that there is a huge prejudice against jet skiers. A
couple of posts on usenet are not going to change that. What will
change that is observable evidence by more and more people.

I just snipped out one of my usual long-winded responses - I'll just

:-)




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com