Jet Ski overheating problem
 

In article et,
otnmbrd wrote:

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
.net...

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...



Planet Earth. And I am not a sailboater, so know I do not have the
"right of way" over large ships.

Mebbe, mebbe not.

otn


Who has "right of way"?


Technically, the term "right of way" is wrong (exception noted), but to be
honest, who is "stand on" and who is "give way" depends on the
circumstances.
EG Then again, if I was on a ship and you were buzzing around me on a PWC
......... depends on the circumstances...............

Yeah - what your minimum turning radius on full power was.....

PDW

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Bill McKee wrote:
....

Yup, you attack a jetski, try to run it over or point a gun at it and
someone has video. Say goodby to your boat, your house, your investments.

Actually there was such a case in Maine a few years ago. The judge
threw it out and the CG lost a lot of respect from the boating
community. The sailor ended up with probation for "illegal storage."

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Why do you think we have a requirement
for boat licenses, now?

We do? Who does? Where? (Seriously, I missed that.)

PWCs is why, and stupid PWC drivers.

Well, I know that we non-stupid ones have campaigned
successfully for mandatory education and certification for pwc
operators, the results have been terrific (lower accident and injury
statistics in the states that have these laws now, and better-informed,
less-clueless newbies on the water, plus far fewer renters which
are the source of a a huge proportion of pwc problems)....and that
we also support and campaign for (less successfully so far) similar
requirements
for all other boaters as well for the same reasons.

So, where is the boat licensing requirement in effect - and don't you
think
it's a good idea? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

richforman

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

You know... I just realized that it's not the jet-skis that are the problem,
and I humbly apologize.

An epiphany!

It's the jet-ski owners.

Of course - (well, some of them) - not the boats themselves - they're
just boats.

And similarly stupid, careless, dangerous, irresponsible, oblivious, or
inexperienced
operators of all other types of boats too that "are the problem" -
that's why licensing
and required education (as is mandated for pwc operators here in NY, NJ
and Ct,. to
the benefit of all pwc enthusiasts and other boaters sharing the waters
here) - is such
a good idea, it seems to me, and it should apply to all boaters IMO as
well as pwc'ers.
How is driving a boat different from driving a car? (I mean, why does
one require proving
that you know the basics of how to do it before you're legally allowed
to, the other doesn't?
This doesn't make sense to me. Putting in place a system like that
would not only make
the waterways safer but make money for the states too, seems like a
natural.)

richforman

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

In article .com,
wrote:
Well, I know that we non-stupid ones have campaigned
successfully for mandatory education and certification for pwc
operators, the results have been terrific (lower accident and injury
statistics in the states that have these laws now, and better-informed,
less-clueless newbies on the water, plus far fewer renters which
are the source of a a huge proportion of pwc problems)....and that
we also support and campaign for (less successfully so far) similar
requirements
for all other boaters as well for the same reasons.

It's really nice to know. Unfortunately, there are still a high
percentage of morons out there that continue to contribute to the
image of jet-skiers as clueless fools or dangerous assholes.

Keep at it though... keep at it.

So, where is the boat licensing requirement in effect - and don't you
think
it's a good idea? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

I have mixed feeling about requiring licensing for all boaters. On the
one hand, some people should not be on the water without some kind of
competency test. Typically, if you're going to charter out here, you
have to prove you can sail. But, that doesn't preclude people who buy a
boat, and go for it.

On the other hand, licensing per se, isn't the same as requiring some
level of competency. Licensing regs typically extract a fee as the
dominant feature, e.g., drivers licenses, don't really ensure
competent drivers.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Well, I know that we non-stupid ones have campaigned
successfully for mandatory education and certification for pwc
operators, the results have been terrific (lower accident and injury
statistics in the states that have these laws now, and better-informed,
less-clueless newbies on the water, plus far fewer renters which
are the source of a a huge proportion of pwc problems)....and that
we also support and campaign for (less successfully so far) similar
requirements for all other boaters as well for the same reasons.

It's really nice to know. Unfortunately, there are still a high
percentage of morons out there that continue to contribute to the
image of jet-skiers as clueless fools or dangerous assholes.
Keep at it though... keep at it.

Keept at what? I was talking abaout licensing requirement, which the
previous
poster had brought up, and how I think they're a good idea. You saw
this as an opportunity to throw in
a gratuitous dig at pwc operators and to remind me that you don't like
them....I"m not taking the bait.

Back to the topic at hand:

On the other hand, licensing per se, isn't the same as requiring some
level of competency. Licensing regs typically extract a fee as the
dominant feature, e.g., drivers licenses, don't really ensure
competent drivers.

Obviously it doesn't "ensure competent drivers," but it seems to me
that
it's a lot better than nothing, don't you agree? Being able to
demonstrate
that a person has had at the very least some education in, some
exposure
to, the very basics, what the buoys and other navaids mean, what the
rules of the road are, safety
requirements and regulations, how to operate a vhf or use a nautical
chart....before they can legally drive a boat....
seems to me would go a long way toward protecting us all from "people
who buy a
boat, and go for it." That's what I'm talking about. And like I
mentioned, in areas that have
enacted these kinds of regulations for pwc's, the proof is in the
pudding (accident statistics).
IMO it's a good start and it would be an even better idea to extend the
same kind of rules
to operators of all types of power boats. I'd just think that it'd be
in all our interest...and if
local or state governments made some money off it (the licensing, and
the enforcement
when uncertified operators are caught and charged a penalty), that
would seem like icing
on the cake (hopefully some of that money might be funnelled back into
other things that
would help all us boaters like ramp or public dock upkeep, or marine
law enforcement).

No?

richforman

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Unfortunately, there are still a high
percentage of morons out there that continue to contribute to the
image of jet-skiers as clueless fools or dangerous assholes.

Keep at it though... keep at it.

(Alright, I changed my mind, I will "take the bait" to an extent)

Keep at it? I intend to, and I have been "at it" for years now...
by "it" I mean trying to educate people about pwc's, who uses them, and
how,
and also actively fighting bans that I and lots of other people feel
are patently unfair. (Going to
public meetings, writing letters, signing petitions, joining clubs,
supporting organizations
that fight for my rights to use public waterways, and "representing" on
behalf of the pwc community every time I go out on the water.)

And I and my friends in the effort have had a good amount of success in
this effort. I've probably
educated just about anyone I came in contact with over the last eight
years, who had
any interest in the subject of boating, friends, relatives, and
especially fellow boaters, about things they
never realized about pwc's, what people do with them, the fact that one
has to get licensed
to operate them, people are amazed and surprised by the ambitious
travel cruises and vacations we use
them for, the new clean technologies in use and the unbelievable range
and fuel efficiency,
and just the type of people (intelligent, respectable, respectful,
family-man-type, law-abiding, sensible grownups basically - like me and
pretty much everyone I have ridden with) who enjoy and own them, in
contrast to their stereotype-informed notions.....and more importantly,
there are almost no bans in effect anywhere in the tri-state area where
I do most of my boating, although the state has a law that allows towns
to enact
pwc bans, almost none of them have (a few tiny exceptions, Montauk
Harbor, although they won't hassle
us if we idle in to get fuel on the way back from Block Island; also
Point Pleasant Canal in NJ, so we have to
take the long route on the ocean to get to Barnegat Bay which we don't
mind a bit!)....and basically my many pwc'ing friends and I have
no problems with any of the hundreds or thousands of other boaters we
come in contact with out in the Long Island
Sound, the Great South Bay, the Hudson River, the Atlantic Ocean, New
York Harbor, Staten Island.....I never feel
like a second-class citizen, am never called names like an annoying
mosquito or clueless moron, basically anywhere in the world except here
in this thread. So this makes me very confident that my efforts on
behalf of myself and my fellow pwc'ers has been pretty successful in
fighting prejucide ad stereortypes....

and most importantly, most of the national park bans that were
temporarily enacted a few years back, have been rolled back or
eliminated as the scientific evidence from the mandated environmental
impact studies, plus of course public opinion on the matter, has rolled
in, including two local areas, Fire Island National Seashore and
Gateway National Park, have been largely rolled back and just replaced
with some milder restrictions....so again I know my continuing efforts,
and those of many others, to educate people and fight for our own
rights, have met with some degree of success, and I certainly plan to
as you say "keep at it."

If you consider me your enemy and hope I fail in my efforts, well, then
I guess that's the way it is, hopefully you're going to meetings too
and arguing for increased pwc bans, that's your right. But really
having heard from me, I would think that you would actually afford me
some respect, "j.," based on my being obviously a fairly educated,
informed, passionate, serious and very active fellow boater. You seem
to want to position me in an opposing camp from you because you have
had negative experiences with other pwc'ers before, but the way I see
it, we are really on the same side and in the same boat, as it were.
You should want me and every other safe, competent, educated,
responsible boater to have access to the public waterways, just as
surely as you want every unsafe, dangerous, idiotic boater off the
water.

richforman

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

In article .com,
wrote:
Well, I know that we non-stupid ones have campaigned
successfully for mandatory education and certification for pwc
operators, the results have been terrific (lower accident and injury

It's really nice to know. Unfortunately, there are still a high
percentage of morons out there that continue to contribute to the
image of jet-skiers as clueless fools or dangerous assholes.
Keep at it though... keep at it.

Keept at what? I was talking abaout licensing requirement, which the
previous
poster had brought up, and how I think they're a good idea. You saw
this as an opportunity to throw in
a gratuitous dig at pwc operators and to remind me that you don't like
them....I"m not taking the bait.

You're really a pill. I tried to give you a compliment and as typical
for an idiot, you took it for an insult. You said "we non-stupid ones
have campaigned...." I suppose you aren't included in that
group. Silly me.

Back to the topic at hand:

On the other hand, licensing per se, isn't the same as requiring some
level of competency. Licensing regs typically extract a fee as the
dominant feature, e.g., drivers licenses, don't really ensure
competent drivers.

Obviously it doesn't "ensure competent drivers," but it seems to me
that it's a lot better than nothing, don't you agree? Being able to
demonstrate that a person has had at the very least some education in, some

I'm not that sure it's a lot better than nothing. It's better than
nothing, but I'm not sure it's worth the red tape, fees, delays, etc.
It would be better if, instead of requiring a license, one was
required to take a safe boating course. That would ensure the minimum
education you're talking about.

IMO it's a good start and it would be an even better idea to extend the
same kind of rules to operators of all types of power boats. I'd just
think that it'd be in all our interest...and if

Like I said just a sec ago, I don't think it's necessarily the best
place to start. All boaters should have to take some sort of safety
class, but the licensing part of it I'm not sure adds that much to it.

No?

No. Just dumb. Oh wait, I'm not supposed to take a gratituous dig at
jet-skiers. Sorry.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

In article .com,
wrote:
Unfortunately, there are still a high
percentage of morons out there that continue to contribute to the
image of jet-skiers as clueless fools or dangerous assholes.

Keep at it though... keep at it.

(Alright, I changed my mind, I will "take the bait" to an extent)

Keep at it? I intend to, and I have been "at it" for years now...
by "it" I mean trying to educate people about pwc's, who uses them, and

And, I have no problem with that, and I'm glad you're doing
it. There's a lot of work to do! (NOT A DIG ... jeez, now I'm editing
myself for a jet-skier!)

in this thread. So this makes me very confident that my efforts on
behalf of myself and my fellow pwc'ers has been pretty successful in
fighting prejucide ad stereortypes....

Not quite enough... suggestion... how about educating the ones who are
still on the water with the noisy, pollution machines. According to
your own words, those people are the ones giving your group a bad
name.

and most importantly, most of the national park bans that were
temporarily enacted a few years back, have been rolled back or
eliminated as the scientific evidence from the mandated environmental
impact studies, plus of course public opinion on the matter, has rolled
in, including two local areas, Fire Island National Seashore and
Gateway National Park, have been largely rolled back and just replaced
with some milder restrictions....so again I know my continuing efforts,
and those of many others, to educate people and fight for our own
rights, have met with some degree of success, and I certainly plan to
as you say "keep at it."

If it is shown that jet-skier are not damaging the physical environment nor
disturbing the quiet enjoyment of others, I have no problem with them
on public waterways.

If you consider me your enemy and hope I fail in my efforts, well, then
I guess that's the way it is, hopefully you're going to meetings too
and arguing for increased pwc bans, that's your right. But really

I only argue for what makes sense. You think I'm the enemy because of
my first-hand experience with jet skies. That's your right.

having heard from me, I would think that you would actually afford me
some respect, "j.," based on my being obviously a fairly educated,
informed, passionate, serious and very active fellow boater. You seem

I certainly afford you "some" respect.

to want to position me in an opposing camp from you because you have
had negative experiences with other pwc'ers before, but the way I see
it, we are really on the same side and in the same boat, as it were.

I'm not putting you in any camp. I'm telling you what my experience
has been from the time the jet ski first arrived. If things get
better, as you claim they are, then that's just peachy!

You should want me and every other safe, competent, educated,
responsible boater to have access to the public waterways, just as
surely as you want every unsafe, dangerous, idiotic boater off the
water.

The problem is that there is a huge prejudice against jet skiers. A
couple of posts on usenet are not going to change that. What will
change that is observable evidence by more and more people.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
.. .
Bill McKee wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

In article et,
otnmbrd wrote:


"Bill McKee" wrote in message
link.net...

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
. earthlink.net...



Planet Earth. And I am not a sailboater, so know I do not have the
"right of way" over large ships.

Mebbe, mebbe not.

otn


Who has "right of way"?


Technically, the term "right of way" is wrong (exception noted), but to
be
honest, who is "stand on" and who is "give way" depends on the
circumstances.
EG Then again, if I was on a ship and you were buzzing around me on a
PWC
......... depends on the circumstances...............

Yeah - what your minimum turning radius on full power was.....

PDW

Yup, you attack a jetski, try to run it over or point a gun at it and
someone has video. Say goodby to your boat, your house, your
investments.

Video on a jetski? Fat chance, and the video we get will be of a mosquito
running into our bow eye, and then dissapearing below the waves. The tape
will probably follow.

A sail boat cannot catch or get away from a jetski, and a dog would do
better to not catch a car.

Harrassment is harrassment. Why do you think we have a requirement for
boat licenses, now?

PWCs is why, and stupid PWC drivers.

Old sailors know how to stay away from tankers, mostley. How do you think
they got old? Tankers don't bother reporting smashed sailboats, or PWCs,
even if they do notice. Got the picture?

As Red Green says "Keep your stick on the ice." As I say, "Don't tug on
Superman's cape, and don't mess around with Jim."

Your widow will have to explain your stupidity to substantiate and justify
her claim for your rightfully lost income. My insurance will probably
cover it. Go ahead, be an ass hole.

Don't, for heavan's sake, even consider taking your smart pills. I tell
you this in the hope you will stubbornly and stupidly disobey me, for your
own good. We all love you, honest.

If you run between a sailboat and a side channel, the sailboat has the
right to turn from the main to the side channel, when and how appropriate,
considering currents and shallows and winds local to the sailboat, of
which you are probably completely unaware, and you better keep out of the
way, well clear overtaking, auxiliary engine charging batteries or not.
The wind steers a sailboat, and if you can't undersand that, you will wind
up in the Darwin Award list, along with all the other mental midgets. Food
for sea worms, Billy. Right, or just dead right, it probably won't matter
much to me.

An auxiliary engine in a sail boat cannot propel or control the boat in
the same way as do the sails in a wind. Engine on idle and neutral,
charging a radio battery, or running full blast foreward to assist
navigating a boat in the teeth of a gust, the sailor is struggling with
the wind, stealing a free ride for pleasure, and you are not allowed to
choose to try to slide by close and fast, unconcious in the hope that
nothing untoward will happen. A sailboat's auxiliary engine may have 15
HP, but the wind has thousands of wild horesepower available. As Captain
of your vessel, you are expected to undertand the realities of maritime
navigation, deep or shallow, sail and power, flying fish, whale, deadhead
or pedestrian swimmer / survivor. It is your responsibility to undertand
and act appropriately to avoid a collision if at all possible, right or
wrong, now and well in advance. The Logic Of The Universe will prevail.
Disobey Poseidon and die. Die anyway.

Dead or alive, sailboats have the right to essentially ignore most
pleasure power boats. Most of us would never purpously fly into cumulus
granitus, staute or mobile, afloat or sunk. Try it before you decry it.

Oh, I give up. Common sense isn't, and as a Samurai up against the
impossible, for relief, I invoke Godwin's law. You are a nazi asshole, you
are, and an insistant and stubborn, stupid, bullet headed one, to boot. I
quit. I didn't care, anyway. What's one more or less PWC?

Walk the plank. Kiss the gunner's mate. Suck the ocean. Feed the fish.
Marry Davey Jones. Say "Goodbye, Yank." H'Ri-Kiri would be such a relief,
please try it.

But at least it was on topic! Buy me a saki, you foreign devil, you;-)

NI!

Terry K


Was on topic, but sailboats can not turn as wanted, the rest of the world be
damned.