WaIIy wrote:

Is your brain engaged?

THink so.


Walk around South Chicago some night at 3:00 AM and just say

"Can't we just get along?"

Been there, done that, NBD.

People don't f**k with me.

SFWIW, If I'm walking down the street, I'd just as soon pick up a brick
and split your head open as say "Hello".

It is strictly a matter of attitude.


Lew

It could've been a Hasselblad or a Leica, yes? Besides, the guy said
he'd draw his gun - not use it - he may have meant charcoal sketching
it for sale in port. Paranoid Canadians! No wonder they don't get to
carry guns. ;-)

Don W wrote:
It would have been more accurate to say that your life was worth a bit more
TO YOU, than his camera was TO YOU. Your value to him may have been a lot
more than the camera, or possibly not depending on how well he liked you at
the moment ;-)

Don White wrote in
:

Here it was the leather 'strap' until the late '60s.
Sometimes it didn't take much for the teacher to send you to the
cloakroom and administer 5 or 10 whacks to each hand. By junior high
the female teachers couldn't hurt you much, but a strong male teacher
could make it sting.


Mrs. Hubert, my 6th Grade teacher, used the metal drawing edge of an 18"
wooden ruler on all our fingers. She'd hit it so hard you'd bleed. I'll
never forget her abuse.

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in
chalk.

I wonder if the different attitude to carrying guns is mainly
cultural.

US citizens with their history of the war of independence and the
reliance on minutemen and a citizen army with often their own weapons
have a different attitude than say, New Zealanders whose police do not
carry guns. They can carry a baton and had a special trouser pocket
for doing so but most did not wish to be encumbered by its weight.
N.Z. has a law that compels any citizen to come to the aid of a
policeman if he calls for help or if he is being attacked. The penalty
for not doing so is a possible prison term.

We used ex WW2 .303 calibre rifles as kids for shooting pigs, deer and
goats in our bush/forests which are classed as pests and it was
relatively easy to get a licence for a rifle once you turned 16 but
definitely not for handguns or automatics.

Just a thought - not

If you come to Australia, the Customs people will ask if you have
firearms aboard. Say yes and it's no drama, they'll take them off of
you and when you clear out of the country, they'll return them. I
believe they'll even transport them from your port of arrival to your
port of departure if given sufficient notice. I'd suggest having the
guns in lockable cases, then lock them in and have the Customs dudes
put a seal on when they take them away. Unless you have an Australian
firearms licence, you won't get to keep them in your possession. You do
*not* need firearms for defence against pirates in Australian waters.

Assuming you have a bonded locker aboard, I dunno. For a pleasure
vessel, I suspect they'd still take the guns. Maybe not the ammo if it
was locked up with a Customs seal. Ask.

I've owned guns all my life and legally I can carry guns on my boat, in
Australian waters, as I have a licence. I think that sailing with them
may well be more hassle than it's worth, if you're going foreign, and
probably wouldn't bother.

You decide. The Rugers are nice toys but if you bring them here and
don't declare them, you'll probably lose them, the boat, go to jail and
get deported. Much bigger risk than piracy, IMO.

PDW

In article .com,
twoguns wrote:

To Steve Lasardi and others with good advice,
Thanks. You can bet before we leave we will have a list of all the laws
and regulations of any places we plan to visit plus a skipper familar
with the ports we will visit. The dinghy idea is great. One of the
group has a large Zodiac that we are planning on taking, it should be
great for that purpose. Although all of us in the group have been in
professions that required extensive training in firearms use we are
recreational shooters more than anything else. Defensive use is just
secondary. I have been looking for an excuse to buy a couple of the new
Ruger Stainless steel handguns and rifles. Sal****er environment will
be just the excuse to justify that expenditure.
Dennis

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:28:13 -0400, Steven Shelikoff
wrote:



I do not have the figures for last year but do know that Singapore
hanged 273 foreign nationals in 2003 regardless of country of origin.

Yeah, but for what? Maybe they were convicted of murder or some other
serious crime.

Steve

I don't have the figures but do know that some were for murder but most were
hanged for drug smuggling or drug dealing as well as the possession of firearms.
If one really wishes, one may attend a hanging at Changi Gaol in Singapore where
they are carried out on Friday mornings. It should be borne in mind that both
Singapore and Malaysia, though independent, adhere firmly to the British based
justice system. In Malaysia, if there is no local precedent, one may be chosen
from either Britain, Australia, New Zealand or India. As in Indonesia there are
lengthy appeal proceedures but, unlike some states in the USA (this is not a
criticism so don't feel the need to label me a yank basher), there is no lengthy
on again- off again many years death row habitation of those wo have been
sentenced to death.

Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore are currently exploring adding engaging in
child prostitution or the smuggling of children for the sex trade as offences
for which the death penalty may be applied. May sound draconian to some, and,
coming from a country with no death penalty, am not sure how I feel myself. The
sight of frightened young girls, bought for US$300 in Cambodia, intercepted on
the way to the brothels is rather disturbing to say the least. They generally
don't live to adulthood.

Peter H

Steven Shelikoff wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:41:00 +1000, Peter Hendra
wrote:


On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:28:13 -0400, Steven Shelikoff
wrote:



I do not have the figures for last year but do know that Singapore
hanged 273 foreign nationals in 2003 regardless of country of origin.

Yeah, but for what? Maybe they were convicted of murder or some other
serious crime.

Steve

I don't have the figures but do know that some were for murder but most were
hanged for drug smuggling or drug dealing as well as the possession of firearms.

[...]

sight of frightened young girls, bought for US$300 in Cambodia, intercepted on
the way to the brothels is rather disturbing to say the least. They generally
don't live to adulthood.


These are all other offenses in addition to possesing a firearm. Drug
smuggling, child sex slavery, murder, etc. What I'd like to see is a
case where they've hung a US citizen who's only offense was possesion
of a firearm.

Steve

Steve, do you really mean to say that such a thing would make you happy?

Terry K

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote
So I'd like to know if the person who made the implication above can
actually back it up with a case. Either way, (they have hung a US
citizen for possession of a firearm or ammunition or they never have
done such a thing) it's good information to know.

Why? I wouldn't take a gun or ammo there because I wouldn't want to be the
first - or even put up with the hassle. I'll just stay away (no problem for
me) or, if I had to go there I simply give the gun/ammo to Davy Jones before
entering their territory. A decent pump shotgun and a box of ammo are not
expensive enough to risk jail let alone death and I wouldn't expose an
expensive gun to the sea anyway. BTW I habitually carry at home (USA).

Vito wrote:
"Steven Shelikoff" wrote

So I'd like to know if the person who made the implication above can
actually back it up with a case. Either way, (they have hung a US
citizen for possession of a firearm or ammunition or they never have
done such a thing) it's good information to know.


Why? I wouldn't take a gun or ammo there because I wouldn't want to be the
first - or even put up with the hassle. I'll just stay away (no problem for
me) or, if I had to go there I simply give the gun/ammo to Davy Jones before
entering their territory. A decent pump shotgun and a box of ammo are not
expensive enough to risk jail let alone death and I wouldn't expose an
expensive gun to the sea anyway. BTW I habitually carry at home (USA).

I wouldn't take a gun there either and I don't carry at home (USA) even
though I have a CCW. However, as to why I'd like to know, I'm just the
type of person who likes to discover truth and information for it's own
sake. You might not be that type of person, and that's fine. When
someone makes an assertion or implication that interests me, I like to
dig deeper and find out if it's actually true and not just accept it
prima facia. So that's why.

Steve

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 10:41:00 +0100, Peter Wiley
wrote:

In article , Vito
wrote:

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote
So I'd like to know if the person who made the implication above can
actually back it up with a case. Either way, (they have hung a US
citizen for possession of a firearm or ammunition or they never have
done such a thing) it's good information to know.

Why? I wouldn't take a gun or ammo there because I wouldn't want to be the
first - or even put up with the hassle. I'll just stay away (no problem for
me) or, if I had to go there I simply give the gun/ammo to Davy Jones before
entering their territory. A decent pump shotgun and a box of ammo are not
expensive enough to risk jail let alone death and I wouldn't expose an
expensive gun to the sea anyway. BTW I habitually carry at home (USA).

You really aren't thinking this through. Singapore doesn't really care
if you have a firearm aboard. They're not going to hang you for that,
or arrest you, or fine you.

They only care if you have a firearm aboard AND DON'T DECLARE IT TO
CUSTOMS. Understand the difference? You clear in, declare it, they take
it away while you're in port, you clear out, they return it & off you
go. I really can't see what the big deal is. It's not like you need a
gun there, Singapore is a lot safer than the USA.

I just don't understand why you guys seem to have such a conceptual
difficulty with filling in a Customs declaration form accurately. Do
you ever go *anywhere* outside of the USA?

Try bringing certain prescription drugs into the USA sometimes even
with a prescription from an overseas medical practitioner. Don't ever
try doing it without a script. Also, AFAIK, the USA is the only country
on the planet which asserts the right to confiscate foreign vessels in
transit if they suspect the vessel will visit Cuba. You guys have this
**** and you're worried about the consequences of failing to fill out a
Customs form accurately? Get a grip.

Now Indonesia - if you declare a gun & they take it away, it might get
'lost' and you'll never see it again. BFD. If you *don't* declare it
and dump it over the side instead, as suggested above, guess what?
You've converted the *possible* loss of a firearm into the *certain*
loss of it. How bright is that?

PDW


Fun post! It's at this point that the die-hards start laying plans for
a 5 ft PVC sewer section with an o-ring screw on end cap, and
judicious weighting, to drape in the water with their precious stuff.

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK