On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:58:23 -0500, Larry W4CSC
wrote:
As to powering the boat from shore and inverter, you install a transfer
switch between the sources, ensuring the inverter is never connected in
parallel with the power company from the dock. It's, essentially, a double
pole switch, mounted in a box with a lockout so you can't run both,
simultaneously. Any home generator transfer switch will work on your
inverter system.

==========================
The better grades of marine inverter/chargers have built in, automatic
transfer switches. This is the most convenient arrangement for
permanent installations. The inverter has a hard wired AC input
coming from your distribution panel, and a hard wired AC output going
back to the panel. When the inverter senses AC voltage on the input
side (either from your generator or shorepower), it automatically
switches out of invert mode and into charge mode.

Unfortunately these units are considerably more expensive than the
Walmart variety but they are really the right way to go for a long
term installation.

Practical Sailor just reviewed inverter/chargers and recommended the
new Xantrex MS2000.

A quick Google search popped up a few sites selling it for about
$1500.

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/ms2000.html

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

The inverter has a hard wired AC input
coming from your distribution panel, and a hard wired AC output going
back to the panel.

Please clarify the above, as wiring both the input and output of an
inverter to a distribution panel IS really a bad idea, and doesn't
conform to ABS or NEC codes........


Me

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:47:47 GMT, Me wrote:

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

The inverter has a hard wired AC input
coming from your distribution panel, and a hard wired AC output going
back to the panel.

Please clarify the above, as wiring both the input and output of an
inverter to a distribution panel IS really a bad idea, and doesn't
conform to ABS or NEC codes........

The panel would be split in some way, so the inverter output can't be
connected back to its own input.

One possibility would be to have a breaker feeding only the
inverter/charger, and the inverter's output feeding a couple of
breakers that are electrically isolated from the main input - those
breakers would get power only through the inverter's transfer relay.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:47:47 GMT, Me wrote:

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

The inverter has a hard wired AC input
coming from your distribution panel, and a hard wired AC output going
back to the panel.

Please clarify the above, as wiring both the input and output of an
inverter to a distribution panel IS really a bad idea, and doesn't
conform to ABS or NEC codes........

============================================

The distribution panel (or behind it) is usually the only place where
you can find a centralized point where you can interrupt the power.

The inverter has to be wired in such a way that it can never see an
independant source of AC power at its output terminals. As long as
both the AC input to the inverter/charger and the inverter output pass
through seperate circuit breakers, there should be no issue with
wiring codes.

How would you do it?

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

The distribution panel (or behind it) is usually the only place where
you can find a centralized point where you can interrupt the power.

The inverter has to be wired in such a way that it can never see an
independant source of AC power at its output terminals. As long as
both the AC input to the inverter/charger and the inverter output pass
through seperate circuit breakers, there should be no issue with
wiring codes.

How would you do it?

Bzzzzt, Wrong answer..... would you like to try again, for what is
behind Curtain No. 2 ?

Never EVER have a Input Feed and an Output Feed in the same Panel
and on the same buss. That has got to be the dumbest Idea I have ever
seen, posted to a newsgroup, and "Totaly" against ABS and NEC Electrical
Codes. Yes, it is possible to so such a thing, but to keep people from
doing so, is why there are ABS and NEC codes in the first place.

The correct way to do this is to have an Input Distribution Panel,
and an Inverted Output Distribution Panel, and any interconnection
directly between the two, would need to be thru an InterLocked Transfer
Switch.

Shore Power, Generator, would be interlocked so they are mutually
exclusive inputs to the Input Distribution Panel. That panel then
feeds all noninverted loads thru individual breakers, and the Inverter
input, thru its own individual Breaker. The Output Distribution Panel
would also have it's own individual breaker in the Input Distribution
Panel for Transfer Power Feeds.

Inverter output, Transfer Power Feed, would be interlocked so as to
be mututally exclusive inputs to the Inverted Output Distribution
Panel. All inverted power circuits would then be individually
breakered from this panel.

This keeps the Genset and Shorepower mutally exclusivly seperate
from each other so as no combination of breaker settings could
ever connect them together.

This also keeps the Inverter Input and Output mutually exclusivly
seperate from each other so that no combination of breaker settings
could ever connect them together.

Any other system, that does not provbide the above Mutual Exclusivity
will certainly, and eventually, let out the MAGIC SMOKE, that makes the
electrons run thru the wires. Either you, the mate, or just a friend
aboard, will make a breaker setting mistake, and out will come the
MAGIC SMOKE, and the results will be BAD.....


Me

"Me" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

The distribution panel (or behind it) is usually the only place where
you can find a centralized point where you can interrupt the power.

The inverter has to be wired in such a way that it can never see an
independant source of AC power at its output terminals. As long as
both the AC input to the inverter/charger and the inverter output pass
through seperate circuit breakers, there should be no issue with
wiring codes.

How would you do it?

Bzzzzt, Wrong answer..... would you like to try again, for what is
behind Curtain No. 2 ?

Never EVER have a Input Feed and an Output Feed in the same Panel
and on the same buss. That has got to be the dumbest Idea I have ever
seen, posted to a newsgroup, and "Totaly" against ABS and NEC Electrical
Codes. Yes, it is possible to so such a thing, but to keep people from
doing so, is why there are ABS and NEC codes in the first place.

The correct way to do this is to have an Input Distribution Panel,
and an Inverted Output Distribution Panel, and any interconnection
directly between the two, would need to be thru an InterLocked Transfer
Switch.

Shore Power, Generator, would be interlocked so they are mutually
exclusive inputs to the Input Distribution Panel. That panel then
feeds all noninverted loads thru individual breakers, and the Inverter
input, thru its own individual Breaker. The Output Distribution Panel
would also have it's own individual breaker in the Input Distribution
Panel for Transfer Power Feeds.

Inverter output, Transfer Power Feed, would be interlocked so as to
be mututally exclusive inputs to the Inverted Output Distribution
Panel. All inverted power circuits would then be individually
breakered from this panel.

This keeps the Genset and Shorepower mutally exclusivly seperate
from each other so as no combination of breaker settings could
ever connect them together.

This also keeps the Inverter Input and Output mutually exclusivly
seperate from each other so that no combination of breaker settings
could ever connect them together.

Any other system, that does not provbide the above Mutual Exclusivity
will certainly, and eventually, let out the MAGIC SMOKE, that makes the
electrons run thru the wires. Either you, the mate, or just a friend
aboard, will make a breaker setting mistake, and out will come the
MAGIC SMOKE, and the results will be BAD.....


Me

All ture, except the part about two separate panels. My main AC panel
has interlocks for shore/genset/inverter plus distribution for 2 30A
circuits.
Off the shelf and ABYC accepted.

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
news
All ture, except the part about two separate panels. My main AC panel
has interlocks for shore/genset/inverter plus distribution for 2 30A
circuits.
Off the shelf and ABYC accepted.




Does that panel with the "inverter" position disconnect the
inverter/charger's AC power input when it goes into the inverter
position?....keeping the inverter from powering its own charger??

Too funny....(c;

Larry W4CSC wrote:

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
news

All ture, except the part about two separate panels. My main AC panel
has interlocks for shore/genset/inverter plus distribution for 2 30A
circuits.
Off the shelf and ABYC accepted.





Does that panel with the "inverter" position disconnect the
inverter/charger's AC power input when it goes into the inverter
position?....keeping the inverter from powering its own charger??

Too funny....(c;



The thing that bothers me about "automatic" inverters like the smoked
Freedom Marine 25 setting on the floor beside me is the apparent (to me)
high rate of failure due to no apparent cause. Mine smoked
during operation with a low load at anchor after several hours of
trouble free operation that day. Then I started noticing how many
"refurbished" marine inverters were available on E-Bay. By the way mine
was a refurbished unit.
Coincidence?

Allen

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
news
All ture, except the part about two separate panels. My main AC panel
has interlocks for shore/genset/inverter plus distribution for 2 30A
circuits.
Off the shelf and ABYC accepted.




Does that panel with the "inverter" position disconnect the
inverter/charger's AC power input when it goes into the inverter
position?....keeping the inverter from powering its own charger??

No, but the inverter protects itself if I inadvertantly power up the
inverter without shutting down the charger.

Too funny....(c;

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote:

All ture, except the part about two separate panels. My main AC panel
has interlocks for shore/genset/inverter plus distribution for 2 30A
circuits.
Off the shelf and ABYC accepted.

and do you have the Inverter Input and Output connected to breakers on
the same buss? The Inverter Output also needs to have it's own Mutually
Exclusive Access to the Output Power Distribution Buss to be in
compliance with ABS and NEC..........

That was part of the OP's original problem.......

Me