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#11
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Hi, Larry, and thanks for the thought provoking, left below for reference.
However, one snippet which I don't understand - can you elaborate? I doubt many here will be powering the shore power throughout the boat with the battery killing inverter, don't you?..... Battery killing inverter? Most of what I read these days suggests a static load of well under an amp, some are milliamps. Running any electrical device will kill a battery eventually if it's not got the power replaced (which we expect to do in spades, or, as you've noted, our own power company should be able to cope with extended periods of no-replacement) - how's this different? We have yet to decide about the capacity of the inverter we'll use. Likely the mikey or coffeemaker will be the biggest draw; I assume that will want something on the order of 1500w. I have a 1/3hp grinder/polisher and a skilsaw which might also have a pretty good startup load, so I'm thinking of 2kw as my "solution" to house power. As we next to never expect to be at shorepower except during haulouts (and even then, should have no particular need, with our solar and wind), we'll want to make our various outlets be both - inverter and shorepower. As we don't yet know how we'll use the computer and entertainment stuff, we assume we'll want to have our outlets available everywhere they are now, as well as some other places I'll install in the next few weeks. None of those loads are very big, of course, but running drop cords isn't my ideal power solution, even if they are in raceways. So, back to the question of central power (and switchability for shore power/house power) and what to do... L8R Skip and Lydia, inching toward completion -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig http://tinyurl.com/384p2 "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Why can't we just plug the loads into it? Plug the boat into it, if you like....just like the dock. Of course, you'd should install a transfer switch to keep you from feeding the dock into it, or any other inverter that doesn't have one. Most things on Lionheart run on DC. A couple of things that don't are the little microwave oven we paid $15 (new!) for and the laptop power supply and printer power supply for WEFAX charts at sea. For those, we have a 1KW Radio Shack inverter mounted right next to the battery switches inside the engine compartment over the monsters to keep the inverter fan noise out of the boat and the big cables to it to a minimum length. A length of #14 drop cord snakes its way through to overstuffed wireways to the nav station where I installed a 115VAC standard 6-outlet power strip to plug the various computer loads into it. A second custom drop cord runs from the inverter to a dual outlet in a handibox behind the microwave in the galley. I also ran a control cable from the power switch inside the inverter over to a microswitch mounted on a neat little plate in a hole at the nav station used by the former owner for something that needed filling. This gives the inverter remote control to switch it on and off. A panel-mounted neon indicator connected to the 120VAC in the nav station power strip lets me know the inverter is on and, in fact, producing 120VAC power. When the microwave is running, my DC clamp-on ammeter shows it drawing about 33A at 13.8VDC to heat dinner. Even at the dock, the microwave runs off the inverter. We plug the computer stuff into a shore-power outlet by the inverter's power strip. I doubt many here will be powering the shore power throughout the boat with the battery killing inverter, don't you?..... 3KW is way overkill because the boats can't provide DC to 3KW for very long.... |
#12
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"Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot
fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote in : Hi, Larry, and thanks for the thought provoking, left below for reference. However, one snippet which I don't understand - can you elaborate? I doubt many here will be powering the shore power throughout the boat with the battery killing inverter, don't you?..... Battery killing inverter? Most of what I read these days suggests a static load of well under an amp, some are milliamps. Running any electrical device will kill a battery eventually if it's not got the power replaced (which we expect to do in spades, or, as you've noted, our own power company should be able to cope with extended periods of no-replacement) - how's this different? Do the math. Let's say we have a BIG inverter, 4KW continuous. This is great for TEMPORARY loads that need 4KW for a few minutes, like your coffee maker. But, as I jokingly put it, may boaters think they have their own "power station" when they buy one of these beasts. Case in point: 1500W heater - 12.5A@120VAC - about 120A at 13V.....x 24 hrs = 2880AH To provide for a simple electric heater and only drawing the battery banks down to 70%, not zero which destroys them....2880/.30 (30% of battery capacity) = 9,600AH battery bank. How big did you say those cells were?...(c; Hence my comment, "The funniest thing is to see a boater with a new 4KW inverter carrying his electric heater down the dock with that smug grin on his face." I've seen them incredulous that their 5KW inverter can't run the boat's air conditioner for the weekend anchored out. Math is not one of their majors...(c; We have yet to decide about the capacity of the inverter we'll use. Likely the mikey or coffeemaker will be the biggest draw; I assume that will want something on the order of 1500w. I have a 1/3hp grinder/polisher and a skilsaw which might also have a pretty good startup load, so I'm thinking of 2kw as my "solution" to house power. 2KW is fine.....for INTERMITTENT loads. As we next to never expect to be at shorepower except during haulouts (and even then, should have no particular need, with our solar and wind), we'll want to make our various outlets be both - inverter and shorepower. Hmm...5A from a big solar panel or 15A from a wind generator = 5X12hrs=60AH per day if the sun shines or 360AH wind power in a full gale 24/7. Not much of a real powerhouse, is it, huge batteries or small batteries... Plan on using the big alternator on the engine every day in this configuration. As we don't yet know how we'll use the computer and entertainment stuff, we assume we'll want to have our outlets available everywhere they are now, as well as some other places I'll install in the next few weeks. None of those loads are very big, of course, but running drop cords isn't my ideal power solution, even if they are in raceways. So, back to the question of central power (and switchability for shore power/house power) and what to do... The "drop cords" aren't laying around. You can use electrical cable if you like, wired into the boat. The inverter electrical system on Lionheart is wired into the boat and plugged into the inverter. As to powering the boat from shore and inverter, you install a transfer switch between the sources, ensuring the inverter is never connected in parallel with the power company from the dock. It's, essentially, a double pole switch, mounted in a box with a lockout so you can't run both, simultaneously. Any home generator transfer switch will work on your inverter system. |
#13
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On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:58:23 -0500, Larry W4CSC
wrote: As to powering the boat from shore and inverter, you install a transfer switch between the sources, ensuring the inverter is never connected in parallel with the power company from the dock. It's, essentially, a double pole switch, mounted in a box with a lockout so you can't run both, simultaneously. Any home generator transfer switch will work on your inverter system. ========================== The better grades of marine inverter/chargers have built in, automatic transfer switches. This is the most convenient arrangement for permanent installations. The inverter has a hard wired AC input coming from your distribution panel, and a hard wired AC output going back to the panel. When the inverter senses AC voltage on the input side (either from your generator or shorepower), it automatically switches out of invert mode and into charge mode. Unfortunately these units are considerably more expensive than the Walmart variety but they are really the right way to go for a long term installation. Practical Sailor just reviewed inverter/chargers and recommended the new Xantrex MS2000. A quick Google search popped up a few sites selling it for about $1500. http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/ms2000.html |
#14
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Hi, Y'all...
Well... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... (Me, here Battery killing inverter? Most of what I read these days suggests a static load of well under an amp, some are milliamps. Running any electrical device will kill a battery eventually if it's not got the power replaced (which we expect to do in spades, or, as you've noted, our own power company should be able to cope with extended periods of no-replacement) - how's this different? Do the math. Let's say we have a BIG inverter, 4KW continuous. This is great for TEMPORARY loads that need 4KW for a few minutes, like your coffee maker. But, as I jokingly put it, may boaters think they have their own "power station" when they buy one of these beasts. Case in point: 1500W heater - 12.5A@120VAC - about 120A at 13V.....x 24 hrs = 2880AH To provide for a simple electric heater and only drawing the battery banks down to 70%, not zero which destroys them....2880/.30 (30% of battery capacity) = 9,600AH battery bank. How big did you say those cells were?...(c; Hence my comment, "The funniest thing is to see a boater with a new 4KW inverter carrying his electric heater down the dock with that smug grin on his face." I've seen them incredulous that their 5KW inverter can't run the boat's air conditioner for the weekend anchored out. Math is not one of their majors...(c; Yes - but apparently you're assuming there's lots of continous load. Like Lionheart, there will be only very incidental use of AC; everything else will be 12V. So, I presume it's a non-issue here. That is, inverters are not inherently "battery killers" - only continuous large loads are "battery killers" (?). We'll not have any such. As we next to never expect to be at shorepower except during haulouts (and even then, should have no particular need, with our solar and wind), we'll want to make our various outlets be both - inverter and shorepower. Hmm...5A from a big solar panel or 15A from a wind generator = 5X12hrs=60AH per day if the sun shines or 360AH wind power in a full gale 24/7. Not much of a real powerhouse, is it, huge batteries or small batteries... Plan on using the big alternator on the engine every day in this configuration. Hm. Help me with the math. As a lapsed math, physics and chem major, I don't remember my stuff all that well. However, I'll have right in the neighborhood of 500W solar, and a KISS wind generator in the Caribbean. Various vendors suggest I take the wattage and divide by 3, or 4 if really lousy weather, for a reasonable typical AH input, daily. My math has that at 170-125AH/day, plus some other unknown - but apparently pretty substantial - AH from a KISS. Our anticipated daily budget is about 125AH; we'll have (for simplicity in this calculation) ~1250AH capacity. It's our presumption that we'll have 4-5 days capacity, in the most unimaginable (in the Caribbean) circumstance of continuous no wind or sun. Have I missed something here? The "drop cords" aren't laying around. You can use electrical cable if you like, wired into the boat. The inverter electrical system on Lionheart is wired into the boat and plugged into the inverter. All of the current house locations are already wired. I'll only be adding a few. As to powering the boat from shore and inverter, you install a transfer switch between the sources, ensuring the inverter is never connected in parallel with the power company from the dock. It's, essentially, a double pole switch, mounted in a box with a lockout so you can't run both, simultaneously. Any home generator transfer switch will work on your inverter system. Given. It's the "plug this 3-prong into your Sam's Club inverter" part I don't like. On another's comment in this thread, I've seen enough negative comments (including some agreement from my expected vendor) about Xantrex to want to avoid them. I recognize that solar and wind are relatively few in the total cruiser universe, so my sample potential here is limited. However, plunging ahead, I solicit positive experience stories about inverters (and, for that matter, systems) used with large solar and wind inputs. Thanks. L8R Skip (about to head back to the boat for another couple weeks, this time, this part, of the refit) -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig http://tinyurl.com/384p2 "There is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
#15
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In article ,
Wayne.B wrote: The inverter has a hard wired AC input coming from your distribution panel, and a hard wired AC output going back to the panel. Please clarify the above, as wiring both the input and output of an inverter to a distribution panel IS really a bad idea, and doesn't conform to ABS or NEC codes........ Me |
#16
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We have a 1KW inverter and it suns everything we need. THe microwave is
the biggest load. Doug "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote in message ... Hi, Larry, and thanks for the thought provoking, left below for reference. However, one snippet which I don't understand - can you elaborate? I doubt many here will be powering the shore power throughout the boat with the battery killing inverter, don't you?..... Battery killing inverter? Most of what I read these days suggests a static load of well under an amp, some are milliamps. Running any electrical device will kill a battery eventually if it's not got the power replaced (which we expect to do in spades, or, as you've noted, our own power company should be able to cope with extended periods of no-replacement) - how's this different? We have yet to decide about the capacity of the inverter we'll use. Likely the mikey or coffeemaker will be the biggest draw; I assume that will want something on the order of 1500w. I have a 1/3hp grinder/polisher and a skilsaw which might also have a pretty good startup load, so I'm thinking of 2kw as my "solution" to house power. As we next to never expect to be at shorepower except during haulouts (and even then, should have no particular need, with our solar and wind), we'll want to make our various outlets be both - inverter and shorepower. As we don't yet know how we'll use the computer and entertainment stuff, we assume we'll want to have our outlets available everywhere they are now, as well as some other places I'll install in the next few weeks. None of those loads are very big, of course, but running drop cords isn't my ideal power solution, even if they are in raceways. So, back to the question of central power (and switchability for shore power/house power) and what to do... L8R Skip and Lydia, inching toward completion -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig http://tinyurl.com/384p2 "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Why can't we just plug the loads into it? Plug the boat into it, if you like....just like the dock. Of course, you'd should install a transfer switch to keep you from feeding the dock into it, or any other inverter that doesn't have one. Most things on Lionheart run on DC. A couple of things that don't are the little microwave oven we paid $15 (new!) for and the laptop power supply and printer power supply for WEFAX charts at sea. For those, we have a 1KW Radio Shack inverter mounted right next to the battery switches inside the engine compartment over the monsters to keep the inverter fan noise out of the boat and the big cables to it to a minimum length. A length of #14 drop cord snakes its way through to overstuffed wireways to the nav station where I installed a 115VAC standard 6-outlet power strip to plug the various computer loads into it. A second custom drop cord runs from the inverter to a dual outlet in a handibox behind the microwave in the galley. I also ran a control cable from the power switch inside the inverter over to a microswitch mounted on a neat little plate in a hole at the nav station used by the former owner for something that needed filling. This gives the inverter remote control to switch it on and off. A panel-mounted neon indicator connected to the 120VAC in the nav station power strip lets me know the inverter is on and, in fact, producing 120VAC power. When the microwave is running, my DC clamp-on ammeter shows it drawing about 33A at 13.8VDC to heat dinner. Even at the dock, the microwave runs off the inverter. We plug the computer stuff into a shore-power outlet by the inverter's power strip. I doubt many here will be powering the shore power throughout the boat with the battery killing inverter, don't you?..... 3KW is way overkill because the boats can't provide DC to 3KW for very long.... |
#17
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I don;t see what the problems is. An inverter represents a load on the DC
system. It has be be managed the same as any other load. No magic, no mystery. The biggest load on our boat is the microwave. 100A for 2 or three minutes, no problem. The inverter itself is no demon. The usage is the thing that has to be managed. Doug "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote in message ... Hi, Y'all... Well... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... (Me, here Battery killing inverter? Most of what I read these days suggests a static load of well under an amp, some are milliamps. Running any electrical device will kill a battery eventually if it's not got the power replaced (which we expect to do in spades, or, as you've noted, our own power company should be able to cope with extended periods of no-replacement) - how's this different? Do the math. Let's say we have a BIG inverter, 4KW continuous. This is great for TEMPORARY loads that need 4KW for a few minutes, like your coffee maker. But, as I jokingly put it, may boaters think they have their own "power station" when they buy one of these beasts. Case in point: 1500W heater - 12.5A@120VAC - about 120A at 13V.....x 24 hrs = 2880AH To provide for a simple electric heater and only drawing the battery banks down to 70%, not zero which destroys them....2880/.30 (30% of battery capacity) = 9,600AH battery bank. How big did you say those cells were?...(c; Hence my comment, "The funniest thing is to see a boater with a new 4KW inverter carrying his electric heater down the dock with that smug grin on his face." I've seen them incredulous that their 5KW inverter can't run the boat's air conditioner for the weekend anchored out. Math is not one of their majors...(c; Yes - but apparently you're assuming there's lots of continous load. Like Lionheart, there will be only very incidental use of AC; everything else will be 12V. So, I presume it's a non-issue here. That is, inverters are not inherently "battery killers" - only continuous large loads are "battery killers" (?). We'll not have any such. As we next to never expect to be at shorepower except during haulouts (and even then, should have no particular need, with our solar and wind), we'll want to make our various outlets be both - inverter and shorepower. Hmm...5A from a big solar panel or 15A from a wind generator = 5X12hrs=60AH per day if the sun shines or 360AH wind power in a full gale 24/7. Not much of a real powerhouse, is it, huge batteries or small batteries... Plan on using the big alternator on the engine every day in this configuration. Hm. Help me with the math. As a lapsed math, physics and chem major, I don't remember my stuff all that well. However, I'll have right in the neighborhood of 500W solar, and a KISS wind generator in the Caribbean. Various vendors suggest I take the wattage and divide by 3, or 4 if really lousy weather, for a reasonable typical AH input, daily. My math has that at 170-125AH/day, plus some other unknown - but apparently pretty substantial - AH from a KISS. Our anticipated daily budget is about 125AH; we'll have (for simplicity in this calculation) ~1250AH capacity. It's our presumption that we'll have 4-5 days capacity, in the most unimaginable (in the Caribbean) circumstance of continuous no wind or sun. Have I missed something here? The "drop cords" aren't laying around. You can use electrical cable if you like, wired into the boat. The inverter electrical system on Lionheart is wired into the boat and plugged into the inverter. All of the current house locations are already wired. I'll only be adding a few. As to powering the boat from shore and inverter, you install a transfer switch between the sources, ensuring the inverter is never connected in parallel with the power company from the dock. It's, essentially, a double pole switch, mounted in a box with a lockout so you can't run both, simultaneously. Any home generator transfer switch will work on your inverter system. Given. It's the "plug this 3-prong into your Sam's Club inverter" part I don't like. On another's comment in this thread, I've seen enough negative comments (including some agreement from my expected vendor) about Xantrex to want to avoid them. I recognize that solar and wind are relatively few in the total cruiser universe, so my sample potential here is limited. However, plunging ahead, I solicit positive experience stories about inverters (and, for that matter, systems) used with large solar and wind inputs. Thanks. L8R Skip (about to head back to the boat for another couple weeks, this time, this part, of the refit) -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig http://tinyurl.com/384p2 "There is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
#18
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On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:47:47 GMT, Me wrote:
In article , Wayne.B wrote: The inverter has a hard wired AC input coming from your distribution panel, and a hard wired AC output going back to the panel. Please clarify the above, as wiring both the input and output of an inverter to a distribution panel IS really a bad idea, and doesn't conform to ABS or NEC codes........ The panel would be split in some way, so the inverter output can't be connected back to its own input. One possibility would be to have a breaker feeding only the inverter/charger, and the inverter's output feeding a couple of breakers that are electrically isolated from the main input - those breakers would get power only through the inverter's transfer relay. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
#19
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The long winded point is that a 900AH Battery and an inverter will not run a
Heater or an Air Conditioner 24/7 through the weekend without being able to recharge the batteries at substantial rate. A good sized generator will be needed! "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message ... I don;t see what the problems is. An inverter represents a load on the DC system. It has be be managed the same as any other load. No magic, no mystery. The biggest load on our boat is the microwave. 100A for 2 or three minutes, no problem. The inverter itself is no demon. The usage is the thing that has to be managed. Doug "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote in message ... Hi, Y'all... Well... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... (Me, here Battery killing inverter? Most of what I read these days suggests a static load of well under an amp, some are milliamps. Running any electrical device will kill a battery eventually if it's not got the power replaced (which we expect to do in spades, or, as you've noted, our own power company should be able to cope with extended periods of no-replacement) - how's this different? Do the math. Let's say we have a BIG inverter, 4KW continuous. This is great for TEMPORARY loads that need 4KW for a few minutes, like your coffee maker. But, as I jokingly put it, may boaters think they have their own "power station" when they buy one of these beasts. Case in point: 1500W heater - 12.5A@120VAC - about 120A at 13V.....x 24 hrs = 2880AH To provide for a simple electric heater and only drawing the battery banks down to 70%, not zero which destroys them....2880/.30 (30% of battery capacity) = 9,600AH battery bank. How big did you say those cells were?...(c; Hence my comment, "The funniest thing is to see a boater with a new 4KW inverter carrying his electric heater down the dock with that smug grin on his face." I've seen them incredulous that their 5KW inverter can't run the boat's air conditioner for the weekend anchored out. Math is not one of their majors...(c; Yes - but apparently you're assuming there's lots of continous load. Like Lionheart, there will be only very incidental use of AC; everything else will be 12V. So, I presume it's a non-issue here. That is, inverters are not inherently "battery killers" - only continuous large loads are "battery killers" (?). We'll not have any such. As we next to never expect to be at shorepower except during haulouts (and even then, should have no particular need, with our solar and wind), we'll want to make our various outlets be both - inverter and shorepower. Hmm...5A from a big solar panel or 15A from a wind generator = 5X12hrs=60AH per day if the sun shines or 360AH wind power in a full gale 24/7. Not much of a real powerhouse, is it, huge batteries or small batteries... Plan on using the big alternator on the engine every day in this configuration. Hm. Help me with the math. As a lapsed math, physics and chem major, I don't remember my stuff all that well. However, I'll have right in the neighborhood of 500W solar, and a KISS wind generator in the Caribbean. Various vendors suggest I take the wattage and divide by 3, or 4 if really lousy weather, for a reasonable typical AH input, daily. My math has that at 170-125AH/day, plus some other unknown - but apparently pretty substantial - AH from a KISS. Our anticipated daily budget is about 125AH; we'll have (for simplicity in this calculation) ~1250AH capacity. It's our presumption that we'll have 4-5 days capacity, in the most unimaginable (in the Caribbean) circumstance of continuous no wind or sun. Have I missed something here? The "drop cords" aren't laying around. You can use electrical cable if you like, wired into the boat. The inverter electrical system on Lionheart is wired into the boat and plugged into the inverter. All of the current house locations are already wired. I'll only be adding a few. As to powering the boat from shore and inverter, you install a transfer switch between the sources, ensuring the inverter is never connected in parallel with the power company from the dock. It's, essentially, a double pole switch, mounted in a box with a lockout so you can't run both, simultaneously. Any home generator transfer switch will work on your inverter system. Given. It's the "plug this 3-prong into your Sam's Club inverter" part I don't like. On another's comment in this thread, I've seen enough negative comments (including some agreement from my expected vendor) about Xantrex to want to avoid them. I recognize that solar and wind are relatively few in the total cruiser universe, so my sample potential here is limited. However, plunging ahead, I solicit positive experience stories about inverters (and, for that matter, systems) used with large solar and wind inputs. Thanks. L8R Skip (about to head back to the boat for another couple weeks, this time, this part, of the refit) -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig http://tinyurl.com/384p2 "There is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
#20
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"John Cassara" wrote in message ... The long winded point is that a 900AH Battery and an inverter will not run a Heater or an Air Conditioner 24/7 through the weekend without being able to recharge the batteries at substantial rate. A good sized generator will be needed! Absolutely! No heater or AC can be run off of an inverter in any practical manner. "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message ... I don;t see what the problems is. An inverter represents a load on the DC system. It has be be managed the same as any other load. No magic, no mystery. The biggest load on our boat is the microwave. 100A for 2 or three minutes, no problem. The inverter itself is no demon. The usage is the thing that has to be managed. Doug "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote in message ... Hi, Y'all... Well... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... (Me, here Battery killing inverter? Most of what I read these days suggests a static load of well under an amp, some are milliamps. Running any electrical device will kill a battery eventually if it's not got the power replaced (which we expect to do in spades, or, as you've noted, our own power company should be able to cope with extended periods of no-replacement) - how's this different? Do the math. Let's say we have a BIG inverter, 4KW continuous. This is great for TEMPORARY loads that need 4KW for a few minutes, like your coffee maker. But, as I jokingly put it, may boaters think they have their own "power station" when they buy one of these beasts. Case in point: 1500W heater - 12.5A@120VAC - about 120A at 13V.....x 24 hrs = 2880AH To provide for a simple electric heater and only drawing the battery banks down to 70%, not zero which destroys them....2880/.30 (30% of battery capacity) = 9,600AH battery bank. How big did you say those cells were?...(c; Hence my comment, "The funniest thing is to see a boater with a new 4KW inverter carrying his electric heater down the dock with that smug grin on his face." I've seen them incredulous that their 5KW inverter can't run the boat's air conditioner for the weekend anchored out. Math is not one of their majors...(c; Yes - but apparently you're assuming there's lots of continous load. Like Lionheart, there will be only very incidental use of AC; everything else will be 12V. So, I presume it's a non-issue here. That is, inverters are not inherently "battery killers" - only continuous large loads are "battery killers" (?). We'll not have any such. As we next to never expect to be at shorepower except during haulouts (and even then, should have no particular need, with our solar and wind), we'll want to make our various outlets be both - inverter and shorepower. Hmm...5A from a big solar panel or 15A from a wind generator = 5X12hrs=60AH per day if the sun shines or 360AH wind power in a full gale 24/7. Not much of a real powerhouse, is it, huge batteries or small batteries... Plan on using the big alternator on the engine every day in this configuration. Hm. Help me with the math. As a lapsed math, physics and chem major, I don't remember my stuff all that well. However, I'll have right in the neighborhood of 500W solar, and a KISS wind generator in the Caribbean. Various vendors suggest I take the wattage and divide by 3, or 4 if really lousy weather, for a reasonable typical AH input, daily. My math has that at 170-125AH/day, plus some other unknown - but apparently pretty substantial - AH from a KISS. Our anticipated daily budget is about 125AH; we'll have (for simplicity in this calculation) ~1250AH capacity. It's our presumption that we'll have 4-5 days capacity, in the most unimaginable (in the Caribbean) circumstance of continuous no wind or sun. Have I missed something here? The "drop cords" aren't laying around. You can use electrical cable if you like, wired into the boat. The inverter electrical system on Lionheart is wired into the boat and plugged into the inverter. All of the current house locations are already wired. I'll only be adding a few. As to powering the boat from shore and inverter, you install a transfer switch between the sources, ensuring the inverter is never connected in parallel with the power company from the dock. It's, essentially, a double pole switch, mounted in a box with a lockout so you can't run both, simultaneously. Any home generator transfer switch will work on your inverter system. Given. It's the "plug this 3-prong into your Sam's Club inverter" part I don't like. On another's comment in this thread, I've seen enough negative comments (including some agreement from my expected vendor) about Xantrex to want to avoid them. I recognize that solar and wind are relatively few in the total cruiser universe, so my sample potential here is limited. However, plunging ahead, I solicit positive experience stories about inverters (and, for that matter, systems) used with large solar and wind inputs. Thanks. L8R Skip (about to head back to the boat for another couple weeks, this time, this part, of the refit) -- Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig http://tinyurl.com/384p2 "There is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
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