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  #11   Report Post  
Frank
 
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Great story, Doug. Thanks for sharing.

Frank

  #12   Report Post  
Wayne.B
 
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wayneb wrote:
If you had it to do over again, would you have gone offshore or up the
ICW?

===========================
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:11:14 -0500, DSK wrote:

We didn't have the time. We made it in 4 days, on the ICW it would have
taken closer to ten. Doing the ICW with a few short inlet-to-inlet
outside hops would have been ideal (until the weather turned cold, anyway).


==========================

Not a hypothetical question for me since I'm going to face that choice
in late May when we take our trawler north for the summer. Hopefully
we'll have better weather then, but the Gulf Stream is always a big
question mark for weather and seas. I'm figuring it will take 2 1/2
days offshore from Ft Pierce to Beaufort but am planning some
alternative ports like St Mary's, Charlotte or Savannah in case
weather deteriorates unexpectedly. We might be looking for crew if
you're interested.

  #13   Report Post  
Rosalie B.
 
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Wayne.B wrote:


wayneb wrote:
If you had it to do over again, would you have gone offshore or up the
ICW?

===========================
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 07:11:14 -0500, DSK wrote:

We didn't have the time. We made it in 4 days, on the ICW it would have
taken closer to ten. Doing the ICW with a few short inlet-to-inlet
outside hops would have been ideal (until the weather turned cold, anyway).


==========================

Not a hypothetical question for me since I'm going to face that choice
in late May when we take our trawler north for the summer. Hopefully
we'll have better weather then, but the Gulf Stream is always a big
question mark for weather and seas. I'm figuring it will take 2 1/2
days offshore from Ft Pierce to Beaufort but am planning some
alternative ports like St Mary's, Charlotte or Savannah in case
weather deteriorates unexpectedly. We might be looking for crew if
you're interested.


We are not constrained by time, and last year we did a much larger
number of offshore hops because Bob is bored of the ICW. I always
make him convince me it is safe to go, although I make up my own mind
based on weather forecasts etc. The one time I let him convince me
against my better judgment we had a horrible time.

Anyway, we always (after the first time) go offshore from Miami (we
always stop in Miami because we have grandchildren there) to Ft.
Pierce. Hate all the bridges that we get into otherwise.

We usually go inside from Ft Pierce and up the Indian River anchoring
around Melbourne, Titusville, Daytona, St. Augustine, and Fernandina
or St. Mary's. That's 5 days.

We've also gotten into the habit of doing offshore from the St. Mary's
River to Charleston. That way we avoid all the tides in Georgia. We
have more grandchildren in the Charleston area.

And on the way back this time we also went from Charleston to the Cape
Fear River and that worked out pretty well, although we missed
Georgetown and the Waccamaw which are very pretty. But OTOH we also
missed the rockpile and the pontoon bridge and a lot of shoaling.

Each of these trips takes about 24 hours - sometimes a little less.
That's about as much as I want Bob to go without sleeping, which he
doesn't do very well under those circumstances. He doesn't want to
take crew either (even if we could get someone).

When we came up the Cape Fear River, we went in to Southport, but
moved the next day to Masonboro to rest up. I suggested that we go
out Masonboro and come in at Beaufort as a day trip, but he vetoed the
idea and then we promptly ran aground which REALLY irritated him (we
were right in the middle of the channel). It would probably have been
a better idea to do that.


grandma Rosalie
  #14   Report Post  
sherwindu
 
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I think the problem was not so much the time of the year, but you probably
sailed when there were winds out of the NW, N, or NE. That makes for very
steep waves
in the Gulf Stream with it's northerly flowing current. There are days in the
winter when the winds are more favorable. I have sometimes waited up to a
week for the winds to clock around to give a more favorable crossing.
Shortening sail should be the first thing on a sailor's mind, short of
fighting off catastrophes, like a hole in the
bottom of the boat. Maybe I'm extra cautious because of having a 22 footer,
but I
think bigger boats can also get into trouble, especially in the Gulf Stream.

Sherwin D.

DSK wrote:

Armond Perretta wrote:
Good tale, Doug, and you ended up with approximately the same number of
people you started with.


Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. The authorities frown coming back with
fewer, and they get downright nosy if you bring back more!

... Two queries:

1. Why do this at this time of year?


'cuz that's when my friend bought his boat!

2. What were your approximately 24-hour runs?


Well, I dunno exactly, since I wasn't the captain and sort of just
piddled with navigating. We made 140 miles in our first 24 hour run, and
in the next 48 hours we made over 350. Once we were on the axis of the
Gulf Stream, we were usually going at least 8 kt SOG and occasionally
hit 13. Say what you like about Hunters, that one at least is a fast boat!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


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DSK
 
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sherwindu wrote:
I think the problem was not so much the time of the year, but you probably
sailed when there were winds out of the NW, N, or NE.


Nope, winds were E when we first headed out from Ft Pierce, clocking
slowly around to SSW.

... That makes for very
steep waves
in the Gulf Stream with it's northerly flowing current.


Boy does it ever.

Another issue is that the waves tend to build up in a certain direction
and take a long time to die down. We were sailing in a cross-swell most
of the time which made steering tricky.

... There are days in the
winter when the winds are more favorable. I have sometimes waited up to a
week for the winds to clock around to give a more favorable crossing.


I would too, normally. But this was a delivery.

Shortening sail should be the first thing on a sailor's mind, short of
fighting off catastrophes, like a hole in the
bottom of the boat. Maybe I'm extra cautious because of having a 22 footer,
but I
think bigger boats can also get into trouble, especially in the Gulf Stream.

Sherwin D.


Bigger boats, like maybe freighters and/or Navy destroyers?
The ocean is plenty big enough to humble man's grandest creations.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King



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Armond Perretta
 
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sherwindu wrote:
I think the problem was not so much the time of the year, but you
probably sailed when there were winds out of the NW, N, or NE.
That makes for very steep waves ...


I read Doug's post to say they encountered following winds for the majority
of the passage. Unless they were heading south ....

The point is that even with following winds, this stretch of the coast
typically provides pretty good seas for a small yacht. I have made offshore
runs on this stretch a number of times, and in most cases I had periods of
rather large following seas, and I am not talking about gale conditions,
just typical early summer/late fall days and nights. It is worth wondering
why this trip was scheduled for February, but as Don Rumsfeld has famously
pointed out, you go with the trip you have.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/








  #17   Report Post  
DSK
 
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Wayne.B wrote:
Not a hypothetical question for me since I'm going to face that choice
in late May when we take our trawler north for the summer.


There are lots of options but going ICW all the way is slow.

... Hopefully
we'll have better weather then, but the Gulf Stream is always a big
question mark for weather and seas. I'm figuring it will take 2 1/2
days offshore from Ft Pierce to Beaufort but am planning some
alternative ports like St Mary's, Charlotte or Savannah in case
weather deteriorates unexpectedly.


If you go out to the middle of the Gulf Stream looking for favorable
current, or follow a rhumb line all the way, you end up about 120 miles
out which is too far IMHO for weather contingincies.

... We might be looking for crew if
you're interested.


Thank you, I'm definitely interested but not sure I'll be able to take
the time off. Please keep me in mind!

Rosalie B. wrote:
We are not constrained by time, and last year we did a much larger
number of offshore hops because Bob is bored of the ICW. I always
make him convince me it is safe to go, although I make up my own mind
based on weather forecasts etc.


That sounds like a good decision method.

... The one time I let him convince me
against my better judgment we had a horrible time.


But I bet it was a learning experience

Anyway, we always (after the first time) go offshore from Miami (we
always stop in Miami because we have grandchildren there) to Ft.
Pierce. Hate all the bridges that we get into otherwise.


That's one of the places, like New Jersey, where it's just an exercise
in masochism to try and run the ICW.


We usually go inside from Ft Pierce and up the Indian River anchoring
around Melbourne, Titusville, Daytona, St. Augustine, and Fernandina
or St. Mary's. That's 5 days.


And still a relatively pretty stretch o' country IMHO

We've also gotten into the habit of doing offshore from the St. Mary's
River to Charleston. That way we avoid all the tides in Georgia. We
have more grandchildren in the Charleston area.


Oh c'mon! Sure the tides are big but this is the least developed and
prettiest part of the whole coast? There are zillions of beautiful
anchorages, rivers & creeks to explore... heck we could spend months
cruising Georgia and SC!

And on the way back this time we also went from Charleston to the Cape
Fear River and that worked out pretty well, although we missed
Georgetown and the Waccamaw which are very pretty. But OTOH we also
missed the rockpile and the pontoon bridge and a lot of shoaling.


True. Ever made the side trip up the Waccamaw to Conway?

The problem as I see it, making inlet to inlet hops, is that sooner or
later you're bound to hit an inlet on the wrong tide with something ugly
brewing... poor visibility, offshore breeze against ebbing tide, sudden
T-storm, etc etc. I'd rather do a slightly longer hop & overnight, then
rest up at anchor if need be. You still save a few days.


When we came up the Cape Fear River, we went in to Southport, but
moved the next day to Masonboro to rest up.


I can't make up my mind if going out around Cape Fear is better than the
river & Snow's Cut. If the tide is against you there, it's long uphill
battle.

... I suggested that we go
out Masonboro and come in at Beaufort as a day trip, but he vetoed the
idea and then we promptly ran aground which REALLY irritated him (we
were right in the middle of the channel). It would probably have been
a better idea to do that.


That's a shallow boring stretch anyway, and the bridges are a big PITA.
A bonus is that you can overnight at Lookout Bight, one of my favorite
places (when it's not too crowded). I've plotted doing Beaufort to
Little River as an overnight, saving 1 day or so.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

  #18   Report Post  
Rosalie B.
 
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DSK wrote:
snip

Rosalie B. wrote:
We are not constrained by time, and last year we did a much larger
number of offshore hops because Bob is bored of the ICW. I always
make him convince me it is safe to go, although I make up my own mind
based on weather forecasts etc.


That sounds like a good decision method.

... The one time I let him convince me
against my better judgment we had a horrible time.

But I bet it was a learning experience

Well not so much for him - it's taught him to say that I don't want to
sail and am chicken. It's also made me really BE a chicken whereas
before I wasn't really. It was also right after his heart attack, so
I was quite anxious about being on the boat anyway.

Anyway, we always (after the first time) go offshore from Miami (we
always stop in Miami because we have grandchildren there) to Ft.
Pierce. Hate all the bridges that we get into otherwise.


That's one of the places, like New Jersey, where it's just an exercise
in masochism to try and run the ICW.

We usually go inside from Ft Pierce and up the Indian River anchoring
around Melbourne, Titusville, Daytona, St. Augustine, and Fernandina
or St. Mary's. That's 5 days.

And still a relatively pretty stretch o' country IMHO

We've also gotten into the habit of doing offshore from the St. Mary's
River to Charleston. That way we avoid all the tides in Georgia. We
have more grandchildren in the Charleston area.

Oh c'mon! Sure the tides are big but this is the least developed and
prettiest part of the whole coast? There are zillions of beautiful
anchorages, rivers & creeks to explore... heck we could spend months
cruising Georgia and SC!

I love the area, but Bob hates it. He hates having to worry about
running aground on a falling tide and he doesn't like to have nothing
to look at. (We have a 50 foot boat and a 5 foot draft, and it takes
us three days - we usually do Jekyll, anchor in the Wahoo, and then
Thunderbolt)

And on the way back this time we also went from Charleston to the Cape
Fear River and that worked out pretty well, although we missed
Georgetown and the Waccamaw which are very pretty. But OTOH we also
missed the rockpile and the pontoon bridge and a lot of shoaling.

True. Ever made the side trip up the Waccamaw to Conway?

No we haven't

The problem as I see it, making inlet to inlet hops, is that sooner or
later you're bound to hit an inlet on the wrong tide with something ugly
brewing... poor visibility, offshore breeze against ebbing tide, sudden
T-storm, etc etc. I'd rather do a slightly longer hop & overnight, then
rest up at anchor if need be. You still save a few days.


We have had some hairy inlet entries, but Bob doesn't mind that, and I
don't really either.

We've been into Ft. Pierce against an outgoing tide with a wind from
the ESE and big rollers coming in to the shore, and we managed OK.

The last time we came into Charleston it was heavy, heavy fog. We
couldn't see the ATONs until we were within about 35 feet of them. I
saw a big ship coming out of the inlet WAY before I could see him in
person (and the radar was set just to show the jetties and not much
past that - we don't usually have it set longer than 3 miles), and I
wouldn't have been able to see him even then if he hadn't had a black
hull. (We went outside the channel)

We do have a computer chart in the cockpit with prior trip tracks on
it.


When we came up the Cape Fear River, we went in to Southport, but
moved the next day to Masonboro to rest up.


I can't make up my mind if going out around Cape Fear is better than the
river & Snow's Cut. If the tide is against you there, it's long uphill
battle.

We've done this twice, once we went to Bald Head (which I will not do
again) and this time to Southport. If you stop there, you can pick
the time to go through Snow's Cut.

... I suggested that we go
out Masonboro and come in at Beaufort as a day trip, but he vetoed the
idea and then we promptly ran aground which REALLY irritated him (we
were right in the middle of the channel). It would probably have been
a better idea to do that.

That's a shallow boring stretch anyway, and the bridges are a big PITA.
A bonus is that you can overnight at Lookout Bight, one of my favorite
places (when it's not too crowded). I've plotted doing Beaufort to
Little River as an overnight, saving 1 day or so.

The other time we came into the Cape Fear River, we went out Little
River and it was a day trip to Cape Fear. I'm sure that you could do
Little River to Beaufort easily. But I really don't like the Rockpile
section.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


grandma Rosalie
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Courtney Thomas
 
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Doug,

Ever heard of anyone durably and successfully covering a fiberglass hull
with Kevlar ?

What kind of positive flotation would you consider ?

Cordially,

Courtney



DSK wrote:

Larry W4CSC wrote:

Very well written. Glad you're all safe.


Thank you very much.

A friend and I moved another friend's Endeavour 35 from where he left
it on the dock at Daytona Beach, up the ditch to Mayport, then at sea
to Charleston. After a great night of excellent winds, the sun rose
and we left the autopilot steering to get some breakfast. As we set
chatting of our great luck, a HUGE, empty, wooden cable reel that was
easily larger than the boat floated by several boatlengths away.

I still shudder at the thought of ramming that damned cable reel in
the total darkness of the preceding night. The Raymarine 2KW radar
never made a blip. The reel was totally radar transparent, even 10
boatlengths away with the low pole-mounted antenna.


And stuff like that can be really hard to spot, what with waves & a jib
in the way etc etc.

One reason why I'd be interested in a boat with positive flotation and
perhaps a Kevlar hull!

Got any idea the lat/long of those pipes sticking up? Are they on the
chart?


Not on the chart, and I have no idea what it could have been. The best
answer I can give as to location is that it's approx 15 nm SE of the tip
of Frying Pan Shoals (Cape Fear). You're the only person (so far) to be
interested in that question. It was by far the scariest moment of the
trip for me!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King



--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

  #20   Report Post  
DSK
 
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Courtney Thomas wrote:
Doug,

Ever heard of anyone durably and successfully covering a fiberglass hull
with Kevlar ?


Yes, I know of about a half dozen over the past ten years. None of those
have been tested in a severe collision though. All but one look great,
although you have to budget for a paint finish rather than gelcoat.

There are also several semi-custom or low-volume production boats, like
C&C or Jeanneau, with Kevlar hulls from the factory. I suspect that
they'd fare much better against most types of impact damage than
conventional fiberglass. There are also many production boats with
positive flotation, notably Sadler & Etap.


What kind of positive flotation would you consider ?


Don't know for sure, but there's a wide variety of foam types to choose
from. If you're going to put a Kevlar skin over a hull, you could fair
it out with an inch or two or microballoons under the Kevlar and gain a
heck of a lot of positive flotation right there.

The flotation would have to be an absolutely closed cell type foam of
proven longevity, it would have to be distributed through the hull so as
to produce proper trim & stability when flooded, it would have to be
secured in place, and the volume is of course a big trade off... IMHO
you'd be giving up mostly small corners of nearly unusable space anyway,
but you'd definitely sacrifice some stowage.

A tricky thing to accomplish, but certainly not impossible. And for
somebody considering a lot of passage making type sailing, a big big plus.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

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