"prodigal1" wrote in message
...
Prof. Irwin Corey wrote:
Just to add to this...
snip
But for home or boat defense, a 12 gauge shotgun is an infinitely better
choice. More likely to hit something vital. If only we could conceal
carry shotguns!

oooohhh
be afraid
be very afraid!!!

what a great way to live

What's to be afraid of?
Violent crime is a fact of life.

You may or may not choose to provide yourself with the ability to more
effectively defend yourself.
I've done enough killing in Desert Storm in a B-52. I hope I never have to
use lethal force to defend myself, family, or friends. But I at least always
carry a knife and sometimes a pistol. I live in a low crime area and other
than the attempted burglary have had no criminal related problems. But, I
would not remove the firearm option from others that might live in hi crime
areas, or be more likely to be targeted, i.e., young women, handicap, or the
elderly.

My uncle (crippled, busted leg that has never healed) used his little pocket
derringer to deter two thugs that planned on
smashing him in the back of the head with a short club, in full daylight, at
the entrance to Penneys in the Gadsden Mall. Luckily his two grandkids saw
the second guy pulling the club while the first asked for the time. They
yelled, he drew, crooks ran away.

Don't be afraid, just be as prepared as you feel you need to be. And be kind
enough to allow others the same freedom of choice.

"prodigal1" wrote in message
...
Prof. Irwin Corey wrote:
Just to add to this...
snip
But for home or boat defense, a 12 gauge shotgun is an infinitely better
choice. More likely to hit something vital. If only we could conceal
carry shotguns!

oooohhh
be afraid
be very afraid!!!

what a great way to live

Beats being dead.

I am dubious of your reasons for your so-called Power Squadron survey
so I'm not going to tell you anything about the type of guns I have
aboard and where aboard I keep them.

I took my boat to the Med a few years ago and I took my guns with me.
In each port I declared them and showed the customs officers (when
they bothered to come aboard) where I keep them under lock and key.

I got nothing but a positive response from the French and Spanish. I
only visited those two countries. This was before 9/11 but even then
I had no desire to expose my boat and family to the uncertainties of
Muslim justice.

I suppose that I you are paranoid or you feel that you are doing
something wrong in protecting your family by arming yourself for self
defense then the authorities will sense this. I was straightforward,
not apologetic nor obsequious and I had no problems and everyone slept
a lot better knowing that we were prepared to defend ourselves.

Flame away whimpy gun grabbers!

Joe

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 00:49:26 GMT, Dan Best
wrote:

You know, it's funny. This question comes up all the time on the net,
but rarely, if ever, out here where people are actually doing it (we are
about to leave La Paz for points south). I can't remember the last time
the guns topic came up while talking with other cruisers. The sense I
get is that very few are actually carrying guns.
- Dan



YOu know, Dan, if they are smart enough to be prepared to defend
themselves they are probably smart enough to not be broadcasting the
fact. And since you are noncommittal on your stance I can only
conclude that you would not be lending a sympathetic ear. People are
not as dumb as the nanny-state thinks they are.

Joe

Greg wrote:
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
news
snip

If this turns out to be a double reply, sorry, but it seems my first
response was lost in cyberspace...


It got here, but I was too tired to respond, and I'm sure most sane
people are getting tired of this too.



The more I look into this topic, the clearer the answer seems: those parts
of the country where people insist on the right, even the responsibility,
to carry a gun, do it simply because they enjoy killing themselves and
each other.


Oh that's silly.

No, I find it a bit sad. But mainly it explains why people from some
regions are so insistent on carrying guns.

What you are doing is equating criminals and insane people with the average
joe on the street.

What you're claiming is that you have to be "insane" to commit suicide.
Others have claimed those who fail at their first attempt are doomed
to succeed soon anyways. Frankly, I'm not so callous as to write off
15000 lives a year that way. Are you actually claiming that if your
child gets depressed, you'd hand him a gun and tell him to get it over
with? That's what you're saying when you write off suicides by claiming
"they're insane, so they don't count."



I've heard similar lines before in local groups - person buys a gun today,
you just bet they will be shooting up a day care tomorrow. Utter nonsense.

Again, using the statistics that you posted, criminals and insane people
account for the majority of all firearm related events. In short, "crazy"
people, because only crazy people murder others - or themselves. Yet you
would punish me and everyone else that wishes to protect themselves, family,
and friends.

So, if you get into a fight with your neighbor, and he shoots you, that
doesn't count because he's obviously a criminal? So it doesn't matter
how high the murder rate actually is, because only "crazy people" commit
murder?

OK, then perhaps I should rephrase my comments so they'll be more
acceptable to you. The murder rate in the South is 30% (or more) higher
than the national average. In Louisiana it 150% higher! In the
Northeast, the rates are less half the average. Thus, would you say
that people in GA are almost three times crazier than in MA? Is there
something in the GA water that makes people three times more likely to
be criminals?




Accepting YOUR logic, I assume that you also don't own a car and are against
private car ownership - leaving the driving to "government" agents.

So you're into stupid analogies. That figures. A car provides a
benefit for me. Owning a gun simply increases my risk.

The
slaughter on our hiways matches or exceeds firearms related events. And
those are considered "accidents", mostly.

No, almost half of them are alcohol related. I call that a crime, not
an accident. BTW, the fatality rate from cars in GA is more than double
the rate in MA. Why am I not surprised?

Again, using your own statistics,
if I have sane family, self included, I actually have little to fear from
gun violence.

I don't know where you live. If you live in the South, your risk is
fairly high. The stats are clear. And the research shows the in the
South most victims knew their murderer.

Remember "depression" and "insanity" are not the same thing.

With the number of cars on the street though, you have a far
greater chance of encountering an incompetent driver than a crazy gun toting
individual.

Actually, the auto fatality rate in MA is less than the homicide rate in
many Southern states.

So, do you consistently apply your logic to most things in your life, or
just guns?
Or do you have reason to fear your family members?

The odd thing is that here in MA the rate of suicide is low, and the
rate "murder by friends" is low. And apparently, the rate of drunk
driving is also low. So I guess you're right. I choose to live in a
place where people don't like to kill their friends, themselves, and the
people around them.

But then, your rant was all in response to my pointing out that there
seems to be this regional difference. Are you still claiming that the
difference doesn't exist, or are you saying you're proud of it?

A very moving story. So glad it had a happy ending for you. You are
absolutely right in everything you say.

Joe

On 19 Feb 2005 16:48:56 -0000, er
(I Carry) wrote:


About 5 years ago, just before Christmas, my son was car jacked coming home
from an evening with his friends. He was on the way home, pulled over to
buy some gas and continued on his way. When he stopped at a stop sign, the
car jacker jumped in the passenger door with a gun in his hand. He ordered
my son to drive giving him directions. During the "ride" the car jacker was
leaning out of the passenger window wildly pointing the gun at passing cars
and people on the street.

After getting to the car jacker's destination, he told my son to stop. Then
he demanded my son take off his new and expensive leather coat. My son is a
weight lifter and extremely strong. At that point, my son did something
quite stupid. Rather than taking off his jacket, he reached over to the car
jacker and grabbed him intending to beat the hell out of him. During the
struggle, the car jacker managed to get off a shot. The bullet went through
my son's neck and lodged in the opposite shoulder where it still is today.
The bullet just grazed his neckbone and missed the major arteries and
esophagous. A fraction of an inch either way and he would have been dead.

The car jacker then jumped out of the car and got into another car and
drove away. Witnesses heard the struggle and got the other cars
description. My son stepped on the gas to drive away. He made it about a
block or so when he started to lose conciousness and crashed into a tree.
He was able to get out of the car and went to the nearest house to call for
help. He knocked at the door, told the homeowner he had been shot and
needed help. The homeowner told him to get out or he would shoot him again.
He went to a second house calling for help. At the second house he lost
conciousness on the porch and that was where the ambulance picked him up.

I'll not bother with the rest of the story including the total incompetance
of the police department (that is a story in it's own). Trust me when I
tell you that police departments don't give a damn and can be prejudiced
when the detective is the same race as the car jacker. This includes lying
by the detective on his final report. Think a little bit about how my wife
and I reacted when we got the call from the hospital. Think about the agony
a parent suffers when there is the real possibility that your child might
not make it.

The moral of the story is this, had my son been carrying, he could have
pulled his weapon while the car jacker was leaning out the window wildly
waving the gun around. The car jacker would have been the one at the
receiving end.

Does my son carry today, do I carry today? You can bet your life on it.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:20:24 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:

Jeff Morris--

I've just read all your posts on this subject. The more I read the
greater my insight into your personality. I have concluded that you
should immediately apply for full membership to the Idiots Club.

Joe
I think part of the problem is that in the south if you kill someone
you are call a murderer and sent to jail. In Massachusetts you are
called a senator and reelected for life.
JR

Joe Bleau wrote:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:20:24 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:

Jeff Morris--

I've just read all your posts on this subject. The more I read the
greater my insight into your personality. I have concluded that you
should immediately apply for full membership to the Idiots Club.

Does anyone remember Joshua Slocum's solution. Savages (pardon, I
meant "indiginous people"} were out to do him harm while he was trying
to get through the Straits of Magellan.

He spread tacks around his deck. When, in the middle of the night the
"indiginous people" boarded they began to jump up and down screaming
as the tacks sank into their bare feet.

Slocum then calmly arose from his slumber, grabbed his trusty shotgun
and thrust it through the companionway. He let go a couple of blasts
into the air. The "indiginous people" did not venture back and ole
Josh completed his round-the-world voyage, the first to do so.

Of course there were a lot fewer pansy whimps around in those days to
concern themselves about the "dangers" of guns, viz Jeff Morris.

Joe

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:09:52 -0500, prodigal1 wrote:

Prof. Irwin Corey wrote:
Just to add to this...
snip
But for home or boat defense, a 12 gauge
shotgun is an infinitely better choice. More likely to hit something vital.
If only we could conceal carry shotguns!

oooohhh
be afraid
be very afraid!!!

what a great way to live


Better, Prodigal One, to live it as a sniveling whimp. Does the shoe
fit?

Flames cheerfully ignored.