Doug Dotson wrote:
"prodigal1" wrote in message
...

Prof. Irwin Corey wrote:

Just to add to this...

snip

But for home or boat defense, a 12 gauge shotgun is an infinitely better
choice. More likely to hit something vital. If only we could conceal
carry shotguns!

oooohhh
be afraid
be very afraid!!!

what a great way to live


Beats being dead.


false dilemma
death obviously isn't the only other option
I'm not armed, and I don't live in fear
my comment is about the fear that permeates American society

"prodigal1" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:
"prodigal1" wrote in message
...

Prof. Irwin Corey wrote:

Just to add to this...

snip

But for home or boat defense, a 12 gauge shotgun is an infinitely better
choice. More likely to hit something vital. If only we could conceal
carry shotguns!

oooohhh
be afraid
be very afraid!!!

what a great way to live


Beats being dead.


false dilemma
death obviously isn't the only other option
I'm not armed, and I don't live in fear

Neither are most folks. So what is your point?

my comment is about the fear that permeates American society

So you are speaking on behalf of society in general. Rather bold
I would say.

Doug Dotson wrote:
"prodigal1" wrote in message
...

Doug Dotson wrote:

"prodigal1" wrote in message
...


Prof. Irwin Corey wrote:


Just to add to this...

snip

But for home or boat defense, a 12 gauge shotgun is an infinitely better
choice. More likely to hit something vital. If only we could conceal
carry shotguns!

oooohhh
be afraid
be very afraid!!!

what a great way to live


Beats being dead.



false dilemma
death obviously isn't the only other option
I'm not armed, and I don't live in fear


Neither are most folks. So what is your point?


my comment is about the fear that permeates American society


So you are speaking on behalf of society in general. Rather bold
I would say.

straw man
respond to my words, rather than yours if you don't mind

re-read the posts in this thread from those who think having lots-o-guns
around at all times is a real good idea

think about the nature of American society in this day and age -everyone
worried about someone robbing them, invading their homes, "terrorizing"
them- you've been cultured to fear the "other" -you feel you have to
protect yourself at all times- as a result many of you feel it okay to
have unlimited access to guns-guns-guns and then stand there with
uncomprehending looks on your faces when nice people get hurt with guns.

try answering a previous question of mine

suggest reasons why all those other countries cited in Michael Moore's
"Bowling for Columbine" have gun violence rates 10-100X lower than the USA?

Spam Fighter wrote:
Hi,

We are working on a Power Squadron study of the "cruising lifestyle".
We
need estimates of the absolute number and percentages of cruising
boats
carrying weapons. That is firearms, not flare pistols, starter
pistols,
sling shots or spear guns.

We are not interested in the debate of whether or not to carry
weapons,
or why cruisers carry.

We wish to estimate the numbers that have chosen to and actually
possess
and carry while cruising, what they carry and where they go.

We would like to break it down by:

A - TYPE
1. hand gun
2. shot gun
3. rifle
4. line-throwing gun (safety equipment)
5. assault
6. cruiser grip, short barrel, large bore, home security weapons
7. other

B - MARINIZED (special finish, stainless steel)
1. yes
2. no

B - QUANTITY + CALIBER OF EACH WEAPON

C - TYPE AND AMOUNT OF AMMUNITION CARRIED (mushroom, hollow point,
slug,
buck shot)

D - HOW STORED

E - CRUISING GROUNDS
1. America
2. Bahamas
3. Mexico
4. Canada
5. Central America
6. South America
7. Pacific Countries
8. Australia
9. Indian Ocean
10. Africa
11. Northern Europe
12. Mediterranean

Is anyone aware of any similar studies?

Any thoughts on how to collect this data?

We suspect the numbers are very low but have been asked to find some
data
to support this conclusion.

Thanks.

Bob

Spam Fighter wrote:
Hi,

We are working on a Power Squadron study of the "cruising lifestyle".
We
need estimates of the absolute number and percentages of cruising
boats
carrying weapons. That is firearms, not flare pistols, starter
pistols,
sling shots or spear guns.

We are not interested in the debate of whether or not to carry
weapons,
or why cruisers carry.

We wish to estimate the numbers that have chosen to and actually
possess
and carry while cruising, what they carry and where they go.

We would like to break it down by:

A - TYPE
1. hand gun
2. shot gun
3. rifle
4. line-throwing gun (safety equipment)
5. assault
6. cruiser grip, short barrel, large bore, home security weapons
7. other

B - MARINIZED (special finish, stainless steel)
1. yes
2. no

B - QUANTITY + CALIBER OF EACH WEAPON

C - TYPE AND AMOUNT OF AMMUNITION CARRIED (mushroom, hollow point,
slug,
buck shot)

D - HOW STORED

E - CRUISING GROUNDS
1. America
2. Bahamas
3. Mexico
4. Canada
5. Central America
6. South America
7. Pacific Countries
8. Australia
9. Indian Ocean
10. Africa
11. Northern Europe
12. Mediterranean

Is anyone aware of any similar studies?

Any thoughts on how to collect this data?

We suspect the numbers are very low but have been asked to find some
data
to support this conclusion.

Thanks.

Bob


Dear Bob, We have no guns on board. We sailed our 42 foot ketch to
France last June and my breath was my only weapon. While on this side
of the Atlantic we keep the boat in Tortola BVIs. Hope this was
helpful.
Vincent LoRusso

prodigal1 wrote:
Doug Dotson wrote:
"prodigal1" wrote in message
...

Doug Dotson wrote:

"prodigal1" wrote in message
...


Prof. Irwin Corey wrote:


Just to add to this...

snip

But for home or boat defense, a 12 gauge shotgun is an
infinitely better
choice. More likely to hit something vital. If only we could
conceal
carry shotguns!

oooohhh
be afraid
be very afraid!!!

what a great way to live


Beats being dead.



false dilemma
death obviously isn't the only other option
I'm not armed, and I don't live in fear


Neither are most folks. So what is your point?


my comment is about the fear that permeates American society


So you are speaking on behalf of society in general. Rather bold
I would say.

straw man
respond to my words, rather than yours if you don't mind

re-read the posts in this thread from those who think having
lots-o-guns
around at all times is a real good idea

think about the nature of American society in this day and age
-everyone
worried

stop the presses!

Getting carried away, with the "everyone" aren't you?

about someone robbing them, invading their homes, "terrorizing"
them- you've been cultured to fear the "other" -you feel you have to
protect yourself at all times- as a result many of you feel it okay
to
have unlimited access to guns-guns-guns and then stand there with
uncomprehending looks on your faces when nice people get hurt with
guns.

Another paint brush swipe. What "uncomprehending" looks? You play while
driving a car, you might crash and die, run with scissors, an electic
socket, boat without life vests or raft/dingy, ditto. You "play" with a
gun, the same. What's to comprehend? Bad things happen in life all the
time, why do you choose to demonize guns?


try answering a previous question of mine

suggest reasons why all those other countries cited in Michael
Moore's
"Bowling for Columbine" have gun violence rates 10-100X lower than
the USA?

I'm going way out on a limb here and say ----- "People aren't shooting
people!"
Rather than grant guns some type of evil powers, I would question why
people in our society are so much more violent. But then, that doesn't
fit in a 30 second sound bite as it forces folks to address a whole
range of issues from broken familys to a society that bends over
backwards to excuse unacceptable behavior.

Saudia Arabia would chop your head off for murder. No "he wasn't loved"
or "his skin is a different color" or "he was spanked as a child
goodness gracious!".
Just chop chop chop and there you go.

It's so much easier to say GUNS ARE EVIL, pass the legislation and go
home feeling so good about doing --- NOTHING. Then the sick *******s
start knifing people, then using clubs, then poison, then propane tank
bombs, then cars to squish people.

Where do you draw the line? Like Mr. Morris, when it impacts his
convenience and quality of life?

To rehash old info, up to the 50's, you could by guns EVERYWHERE, drug
stores, gas stations, etc. Instead of taking the slack assed lazy way
out, I would start looking at what has changed in the US since that
time that would cause such an increase in violent behavoir - but that
might solve something.

By the way, I know a guy that faced a home invasion here in town. He
didn't fall for the "answer the late night knock on the door" and while
returning to his room for his pistol, they kicked the door open. He
returned to the door and started receiving rifle fire from outside and
then a second guy already in the house tried to jump him - but the
target had his pistol. One BG down, the shooter still loose and most
likely plying his trade elsewhere.
The victim now owns about 12 dogs and always carries a concealed
weapon.
Don't underestimate or disregard the impact of violent crime.

"prodigal1" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:
"prodigal1" wrote in message
...

Doug Dotson wrote:

"prodigal1" wrote in message
...


Prof. Irwin Corey wrote:


Just to add to this...

snip

But for home or boat defense, a 12 gauge shotgun is an infinitely
better choice. More likely to hit something vital. If only we could
conceal carry shotguns!

oooohhh
be afraid
be very afraid!!!

what a great way to live


Beats being dead.



false dilemma
death obviously isn't the only other option
I'm not armed, and I don't live in fear


Neither are most folks. So what is your point?


my comment is about the fear that permeates American society


So you are speaking on behalf of society in general. Rather bold
I would say.

straw man
respond to my words, rather than yours if you don't mind

re-read the posts in this thread from those who think having lots-o-guns
around at all times is a real good idea

Personal choice. If you don;t think have lots-o-guns around is a good idea
then don't have any.

think about the nature of American society in this day and age -everyone

Everyone? Who made you the spokesman for everyone?

worried about someone robbing them, invading their homes, "terrorizing"
them- you've been cultured to fear the "other" -you feel you have to
protect yourself at all times-

At all times? I don;t think so.

as a result many of you feel it okay to have unlimited access to
guns-guns-guns

There that pesky Constitution getting in the way again.

and then stand there with uncomprehending looks on your faces when nice
people get hurt with guns.

As far as I can tell, people getting hurt with guns is not generally the
fault of the gun. Oops! I better go check mine to make sure it hasn;t been
roaming around looking for someone to frighten.

try answering a previous question of mine

suggest reasons why all those other countries cited in Michael Moore's
"Bowling for Columbine" have gun violence rates 10-100X lower than the
USA?

Citing Moore doesn;t really lend any credability to you. You hate guns,
that's OK.

Greg wrote:

stop the presses!

Getting carried away, with the "everyone" aren't you?

I wish you were as incisive at answering my points as you are parsing my
English. Would "a large majority of Americans" do?

about someone robbing them, invading their homes, "terrorizing"
them- you've been cultured to fear the "other" -you feel you have to
protect yourself at all times- as a result many of you feel it okay

to

have unlimited access to guns-guns-guns and then stand there with
uncomprehending looks on your faces when nice people get hurt with

guns.

Another paint brush swipe. What "uncomprehending" looks?

So then my mistake? People in the States aren't concerned about how it
is that so many Americans are being killed by one another? People in
the States just throw up their hands and go "Oh well...just another
drive-by...just another domestic that got out of control...whoops just
another ****ass punk with a gun he bought for $25...? Too bad for the
dead guy? Is that it?


You play while
driving a car, you might crash and die, run with scissors, an electic
socket, boat without life vests or raft/dingy, ditto. You "play" with a
gun, the same. What's to comprehend? Bad things happen in life all the
time, why do you choose to demonize guns?

Because guns when used as designed, kill people. Cars when used as
designed get you from A to B. Scissors cut paper...!! Who said
anything about "playing" with guns?


try answering a previous question of mine

suggest reasons why all those other countries cited in Michael

Moore's

"Bowling for Columbine" have gun violence rates 10-100X lower than

the USA?

I'm going way out on a limb here and say ----- "People aren't shooting
people!"

d'ya think? and maybe the reason they're not shooting each other is
because....they can't get easy access to guns? Oh wait, if you saw the
film you'd know that in Canada there are more guns per capita than in
the US. Maybe there's something about living in a climate that can kill
you in 20mins in January that causes people to learn to live together.

Rather than grant guns some type of evil powers,

I didn't say that.

I would question why
people in our society are so much more violent. But then, that doesn't
fit in a 30 second sound bite as it forces folks to address a whole
range of issues from broken familys to a society that bends over
backwards to excuse unacceptable behavior.

agreed, but you better watch that have/have-not stuff or you're going to
be critcised as some sort of Liberal deviant that hates America.

Saudia Arabia would chop your head off for murder. No "he wasn't loved"
or "his skin is a different color" or "he was spanked as a child
goodness gracious!".
Just chop chop chop and there you go.

pot-kettle-black you guys are keeping death rows fairly busy too eh

It's so much easier to say GUNS ARE EVIL, pass the legislation and go
home feeling so good about doing --- NOTHING. Then the sick *******s
start knifing people, then using clubs, then poison, then propane tank
bombs, then cars to squish people.

Stats from other countries show support for this idea but the reates of
crime are still far lower. Why is that?

Where do you draw the line? Like Mr. Morris, when it impacts his
convenience and quality of life?
To rehash old info, up to the 50's, you could by guns EVERYWHERE, drug
stores, gas stations, etc. Instead of taking the slack assed lazy way
out, I would start looking at what has changed in the US since that
time that would cause such an increase in violent behavoir - but that
might solve something.

True, but in the meantime doing something like they have here in Canada
about restricting access to firearms in a significant fashion means that
people don't have easy access to deadly weapons. The stats tell the
tale. Handgun based crime in this country is fueled by illegal
importation of these weapons from the US.

By the way, I know a guy that faced a home invasion here in town. He
didn't fall for the "answer the late night knock on the door" and while
returning to his room for his pistol, they kicked the door open. He
returned to the door and started receiving rifle fire from outside and
then a second guy already in the house tried to jump him - but the
target had his pistol. One BG down, the shooter still loose and most
likely plying his trade elsewhere.
The victim now owns about 12 dogs and always carries a concealed
weapon.
Don't underestimate or disregard the impact of violent crime.

But this is my point. Even in a violent city like Detroit, it is the
minority of people who have been victims of stickups, home invasions
etc. Yet the news trumpets the stories and where one person is a victim,
thousands perhaps are made to feel fear and insecurity. Answer: Run
for the gunz. Are they more secure? No. Are their families more at
risk because of the presence of a firearm in the house. Yes.

Doug Dotson attempted some puerile riposts that got snipped:

I'll repeat myself because it seems like it's slow-learners day on usenet.

try answering a previous question of mine

suggest reasons why all those other countries cited in Michael Moore's
"Bowling for Columbine" have gun violence rates 10-100X lower than the
USA?


Citing Moore doesn;t really lend any credability to you. You hate guns,
that's OK.

Have you seen the film? Answer the question. If you can't do any
better than ad hominem, crack another beer and move on.

WaIIy wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:50:46 -0500, prodigal1 wrote:


think about the nature of American society in this day and age -everyone
worried about someone robbing them, invading their homes, "terrorizing"
them- you've been cultured to fear the "other" -you feel you have to
protect yourself at all times- as a result many of you feel it okay to
have unlimited access to guns-guns-guns and then stand there with
uncomprehending looks on your faces when nice people get hurt with guns.


Your assumptions are insulting and quite disingenuous, not to mention
incorrect.

Why don't you hop down off the high horse there Wally and try responding
to the points I've made?
I can't help you if you refuse to accept that you Americans are being
conditioned to live in fear. I have the advantage of watching you from
the outside as an interested third-party observer untainted by the
propaganda that passes for news in your fair land. I don't hate guns or
gun owners or Americans. I just think it's naive to think that having
one is going to make you safer. In fact, American's love of guns is one
of the reasons I lobby my MP's to introduce mandatory inspection of
_all_ vehicles entering Canada from the States for illegal weapons. Your
crime rates prove that unrestricted gun availability is a dangerous set
of circumstances that leads to tragedy on a daily basis in your country.
Other people choose not to live that way. Why do you choose to live
that way?