Hi Steve,

Spectra melts very nicely, sounds like either the line is not Spectra or has
some salt on it. Once you've used any high tech line at sea, it
becomes -very- difficult to splice and/or melt. You can try to rinse the
line in fresh water and drying, but I haven't had much luck in the past.
Incidently, Kevlar and Technora -do not- melt (they singe or burn), and the
only way to properly finish the ends of the line are by whipping or a tuck.

--
Paul

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"Steve" wrote in message
news

One thing that I noticed in my limited experience with Spectra, was that I
have difficulty cutting it with a Hot Knife and it is near impossible to
weld or seal the ends. Even a small piece of masking tape doesn't work
very well. Kinda like putting tape on teflon.

I'm wondering if the end sealing of the rope yarns shouldn't be done with
some glue, etc.

Any comments.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Thanks!

Brian W

On 22 Jan 2005 20:46:10 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

here ya go.

http://neropes.com/splice/default.htm

Thanks for the "Heads-Up" on the splice. What you have pointed out, i.e.
"Brummel splice" instead of the "Chinese finger trap" is news to me.
///
Steve

I stand corrected. I was thinking this line was Spectra and/or was speaking
in a general way..

I just looked it up and I believe I'm using Sampson Tech-12 or 12 strand
Technora..

Sorry I wasn't more specific (didn't check my ref.).

Steve
s/v Good Intentions




wrote in message
...
Hi Steve,

Spectra melts very nicely, sounds like either the line is not Spectra or
has some salt on it. Once you've used any high tech line at sea, it
becomes -very- difficult to splice and/or melt. You can try to rinse the
line in fresh water and drying, but I haven't had much luck in the past.
Incidently, Kevlar and Technora -do not- melt (they singe or burn), and
the only way to properly finish the ends of the line are by whipping or a
tuck.

--
Paul

=-----------------------------------=
renewontime dot com
FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners
http://www.renewontime.com
=-----------------------------------=
"Steve" wrote in message
news

One thing that I noticed in my limited experience with Spectra, was that
I have difficulty cutting it with a Hot Knife and it is near impossible
to weld or seal the ends. Even a small piece of masking tape doesn't work
very well. Kinda like putting tape on teflon.

I'm wondering if the end sealing of the rope yarns shouldn't be done with
some glue, etc.

Any comments.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

neropes thinks it is easy. you disagree?

From: "renewontime dot com"
Date: 1/22/2005 6:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Hi,

What you're talking about is what riggers refer to as a "core to core"
splice. With high tech lines (cores made of high tensile spectra, technora,
kevlar or similar and a dacron cover) the core is many times stronger than
the cover. With a "normal" double braid eye splice, the cover takes about
50% of the load. With a "core to core" splice, the core takes almost 100%
of the load. Alot of yachts "taper" the line, removing the cover except
where it will go through turning blocks and winches. On a cruising yacht,
this is not usually necessary or desired.

These splices aren't easy to do, but with some practice, a little bit of
practice and alot of patience, anyone can do it.

--
Paul

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"Garland Gray II" wrote in message
news:WcAId.89201$Jk5.21281@lakeread01...
Paul
Now you have given me something to think about. I have made a few
eyesplices
in core dependent double braid following Samson's instructions. This
relies
on the Chinese finger trap, although the instructions call for sewing a
lockstitch through the splice .
Whenever I get around to replacing the lifelines w/ Amsteel, I had
planned
on using the "finger trap" (with the lockstitch), but now I'll give it a
second thought. And I do wonder if the brummel doesn't put a less even
loading on the fibers.

If you are eye splicing single braid Spectra by just tucking one core
into
itself (Chinese finger trap style), then you are not splicing it properly
and your splices are at risk of failure. You -must- first do a "brummel"
splice, where the line entraps itself, then tuck the core. There are
instructions on how to do this on the New England Ropes website (and
probably other sites as well).

Once you've spliced in this manner, sure you can sew the splice, or as
I've
done, use a "sailmakers whip". As you sew, be careful not to damage the
threads, sometimes a "dulled" needle works better for this.

Keep in mind, that when switching from wire to Spectra, you need to be
very
careful to protect the pennant from chafe. Using a stainless steel
thimble
(use a sailmakers thimble, -not- a wire thimble, no sharp edges) and
perhaps
covering the thimble with leather will help.

Hope this helps,

--
Paul

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neropes thinks it is easy. you disagree?

I'd say a single braid spice (brummel then tucked) is pretty easy. Follow
the directions, do a couple practice trys on scrap line, and your splices
will look and work fine.

A core to core splice, on the other hand, can be -very- challenging,
depending on how densely woven the cover is. The hard part is getting a
dense/tightly woven cover to stretch over a core that is now 2x it's
original diameter. Not impossible though, just takes some practice, the
right tools, some sweat and lots of patience ;-)

--
Paul

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On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:19:20 -0800, "Steve" wrote:

For many years I have used wire to make pennants to adjust the hoist on my
head sails. To raise the tack/foot off the deck or clear the lifelines. Or
on the head to raise the halyard swivel enough to prevent a "halyard wrap"
on the roller furling...

I recently installed Spectra for all of my lifelines and observed how easy
it is to do a splice, the ultra high strength and UV resistance.

I'm seriously considering making up Spectra pennants for all of my head
sails. Sure would be easier on the sail and sail bags when they are stowed,
not to mention weight and windage aloft. The working strength exceeds that
of my halyards.

I'm still wondering about some method to seize or hand stitch these sleeve
type eye splices. No mention of this as a problem in the single braid line.
I have not noticed any slippage in my lifelines (although there is some
noted shrinkage in length on hot days (only slight)).

I would be interested in opinions??

All my headsails are full length, so I don't have that to deal with,
but I don't see any problem with it. I have been replacing wire
halyards with various HI-tech fibers, and started with a spectra core
main halyard.

I started with a working load the same as the wire, between 4 and 5000
lbs. The line was too thin for the clutches, and, over a 70-ft length
under tension, the creep was annoying, making it necessary to tighten
under way.

I changed up a size, and it works fine. It does still creep
perceptibly more than the SS did. It is barely large enough to hold
onto when hoisting, and 3/8 or 7/16 would be easier on the hands.

For a pennant, only a few feet, you can make it thick and creep won't
be noticeable. It wouldn't be noticeable even in 1/4 in line.





Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


The sound of a Great Blue Heron's wingbeats going by your head

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:19:20 -0800, "Steve" All my headsails are full
length, so I don't have that to deal with,
but I don't see any problem with it. I have been replacing wire
halyards with various HI-tech fibers, and started with a spectra core
main halyard.

I started with a working load the same as the wire, between 4 and 5000
lbs. The line was too thin for the clutches, and, over a 70-ft length
under tension, the creep was annoying, making it necessary to tighten
under way.

I changed up a size, and it works fine. It does still creep
perceptibly more than the SS did. It is barely large enough to hold
onto when hoisting, and 3/8 or 7/16 would be easier on the hands.

For a pennant, only a few feet, you can make it thick and creep won't
be noticeable. It wouldn't be noticeable even in 1/4 in line.


Rodney's points are well taken, regarding the relative small size of
Spectra/Technora for halyards. I have been considering replacing mine but I
use clutches with a minimum line size of 5/16".

While Technora is available in 5/16", 13000 lb working strength would be
over kill.


I was wonder if the 1/4" Spectra/Technora could be increase in the area
normally under the clutch by inserting a section of 1/4" as a core or a
cover, seized or
using some splicing tricks.

I also observed that the Samthane UV coating of this line is rather slick
and wonder if a clutch would be able to grip it without abrading the
coating.

Just thinking out loud.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

I was wonder if the 1/4" Spectra/Technora could be increase in the area
normally under the clutch by inserting a section of 1/4" as a core or a
cover, seized or
using some splicing tricks.

I also observed that the Samthane UV coating of this line is rather slick
and wonder if a clutch would be able to grip it without abrading the
coating.

I do not recommend taking single braid Spectra/Technora all the way to the
winch and clutches without a cover. On race boats, we normally started the
dacron cover a few feet before the bottom turning blocks at the base of the
mast (when the sail is fully hoisted). On cruising yachts, where wear / UV
protection is more important than saving a few pounds, I would cover the
entire length of the line. Obviously then, the way to go on a cruising
yacht is to buy double braid with a Spectra/Technora core and a dacron
cover.

I also would caution you from adding a core to a single braided line. This
is a very bad idea, and will weaken the line and increase it's chances of
wear and chafe. Also, as you noted, the coating on the line (which protects
it from UV) is slippery and was never intended for rope clutches or winches.

Something else to consider when switching from wire rope to high-tech line
are your turning blocks and masthead sheaves. Often when switching, the
sheave diameters are too small and / or the sheaves have been damaged by the
wire. If the sheaves show any sign of wear at all or if the new line seems
to be a "tight" fit, replace the sheaves. It'll save you from a trip up the
mast later, usually at the worst possible moment ;-)

--
Paul

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Steve, I used Samson Warpspeed for my main halyard. It is a polyester cover
over a core of Dyneema, which I think is the same as Spectra. I fattened the
line where the clutch engages by inserting a small tapered "snake" inside
the core. Regardless, polyester covers everything.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

Rodney's points are well taken, regarding the relative small size of
Spectra/Technora for halyards. I have been considering replacing mine but
I
use clutches with a minimum line size of 5/16".

While Technora is available in 5/16", 13000 lb working strength would be
over kill.


I was wonder if the 1/4" Spectra/Technora could be increase in the area
normally under the clutch by inserting a section of 1/4" as a core or a
cover, seized or
using some splicing tricks.

I also observed that the Samthane UV coating of this line is rather slick
and wonder if a clutch would be able to grip it without abrading the
coating.

Just thinking out loud.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:48:41 -0500, Rodney Myrvaagnes
wrote:
I started with a working load the same as the wire, between 4 and 5000
lbs. The line was too thin for the clutches, and, over a 70-ft length
under tension, the creep was annoying, making it necessary to tighten
under way.

I changed up a size, and it works fine. It does still creep
perceptibly more than the SS did. It is barely large enough to hold
onto when hoisting, and 3/8 or 7/16 would be easier on the hands.

==================================================

Rodney, I believe you are in the NYC area if I recall correctly. Talk
to Tom Anderson at Hathaway, Reiser and Raymond in Stamford, CT.

http://www.hathaways.com/

Tom does a great job of making up custom Spectra halyards that are
"core only" for half the length, core with cover for the back half.
Having the cover on the back half makes them big enough for rope
clutches and also easy on the hands.