On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 06:24:11 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:


In cross section the manhole cover ring looks like this:










_____________________
| | ----- manhole cover fits here
| |_____________
|__ __ |
| |
| |
|_____________________________|

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 09:15:00 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:19:25 +0700, wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:46:54 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:27:59 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:29:26 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

What is a ring mooring, multiple anchors in a circle? If so, how
many?

Two 48" diameter cast iron manhole cover frames or rings, one on
top of the other sunk into the bottom. Each one weighs about 400
pounds.

Interesting. Do you chain them up to a mooring buoy?

Nope! Can't do that lest the authorities come around and
say, "Do you have a permit for that mooring?" I don't
call it a mooring to those assholes. If asked, I tell them
I'm using two large and heavy cast iron anchors so I won't
drag.

What an anchor is is not defined in the statutes. Mooring
is defined in the statutes and unpermitted moorings are
illegal. So, never call two large heavy metal objects a
mooring because, really they are not. They are anchors.
Technically, around here, at least, moorings are drilled
into the cap rock. Like out on the reef for snorkelers,
divers and recreational fishing.

Looped around the anchors is a length of 3/8" stainless
steel chain to which is attached a hefty stainless steel
swivel to which is attached two 25-foot lengths of 1/2"
three-strand nylon, eye spliced around two SS thimbles.

Question. The majority of "moorings" I've seen have use a "mushroom"
anchor. In Florida would a mushroom anchor, with a chain rode, etc.,
but without a buoy, be considered a mooring or an anchor

IMO, a mushroom anchor is an anchor. The only difference
between it and any other anchor is it's generally larger,
heaver, and not regularly weighed.

In Florida, especially the Keys, mushroom anchors are
pretty useless as there is usually just a sprinkling of
sand over hard rock (old coral) so there is mostly little
or no mud for them to sink well into so as to become
effective.

Bottom line, as far as I can tell, it's up to the captain
of the ship to decide if he's lying to a mooring or an
anchor but placing one of those white balls with the
blue strip around it declares it to be a mooring. Where
moorings must be permitted in order to be legal, the
prudent skipper will use the term *anchor or anchors*
instead of mooring. However, anything actually drilled
into bottom will meet the legal definition of a mooring.

No. My question was prompted by you saying"moorings" require a permit
so you call your manhole covers "anchors" which satisfy's officials
that you do not have a "mooring".

Does that mean that Florida defines a "mooring" only as a driven pile
or other permanent fastening to the sea floor?

--
Cheers,

Bruce

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 07:05:08 +0700, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 09:15:00 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:19:25 +0700, wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:46:54 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:27:59 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:29:26 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

What is a ring mooring, multiple anchors in a circle? If so, how
many?

Two 48" diameter cast iron manhole cover frames or rings, one on
top of the other sunk into the bottom. Each one weighs about 400
pounds.

Interesting. Do you chain them up to a mooring buoy?

Nope! Can't do that lest the authorities come around and
say, "Do you have a permit for that mooring?" I don't
call it a mooring to those assholes. If asked, I tell them
I'm using two large and heavy cast iron anchors so I won't
drag.

What an anchor is is not defined in the statutes. Mooring
is defined in the statutes and unpermitted moorings are
illegal. So, never call two large heavy metal objects a
mooring because, really they are not. They are anchors.
Technically, around here, at least, moorings are drilled
into the cap rock. Like out on the reef for snorkelers,
divers and recreational fishing.

Looped around the anchors is a length of 3/8" stainless
steel chain to which is attached a hefty stainless steel
swivel to which is attached two 25-foot lengths of 1/2"
three-strand nylon, eye spliced around two SS thimbles.

Question. The majority of "moorings" I've seen have use a "mushroom"
anchor. In Florida would a mushroom anchor, with a chain rode, etc.,
but without a buoy, be considered a mooring or an anchor

IMO, a mushroom anchor is an anchor. The only difference
between it and any other anchor is it's generally larger,
heaver, and not regularly weighed.

In Florida, especially the Keys, mushroom anchors are
pretty useless as there is usually just a sprinkling of
sand over hard rock (old coral) so there is mostly little
or no mud for them to sink well into so as to become
effective.

Bottom line, as far as I can tell, it's up to the captain
of the ship to decide if he's lying to a mooring or an
anchor but placing one of those white balls with the
blue strip around it declares it to be a mooring. Where
moorings must be permitted in order to be legal, the
prudent skipper will use the term *anchor or anchors*
instead of mooring. However, anything actually drilled
into bottom will meet the legal definition of a mooring.

No. My question was prompted by you saying"moorings" require a permit
so you call your manhole covers "anchors" which satisfy's officials
that you do not have a "mooring".

Does that mean that Florida defines a "mooring" only as a driven pile
or other permanent fastening to the sea floor?

That's the opinion of the FWC aka the Marine Patrol.

Actually, it would appear that Florida has not defined
what constitutes a mooring in the definitions of the
statutes. See for yourself:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...s/0327.02.html

All the more reason to NOT call heavy anchors a mooring.

Why jeopardize your own case should the Marine Patrol
decide to give you a ticket?

--
Sir Gregory

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 20:57:37 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 07:05:08 +0700, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 09:15:00 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:19:25 +0700, wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:46:54 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:27:59 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:29:26 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

What is a ring mooring, multiple anchors in a circle? If so, how
many?

Two 48" diameter cast iron manhole cover frames or rings, one on
top of the other sunk into the bottom. Each one weighs about 400
pounds.

Interesting. Do you chain them up to a mooring buoy?

Nope! Can't do that lest the authorities come around and
say, "Do you have a permit for that mooring?" I don't
call it a mooring to those assholes. If asked, I tell them
I'm using two large and heavy cast iron anchors so I won't
drag.

What an anchor is is not defined in the statutes. Mooring
is defined in the statutes and unpermitted moorings are
illegal. So, never call two large heavy metal objects a
mooring because, really they are not. They are anchors.
Technically, around here, at least, moorings are drilled
into the cap rock. Like out on the reef for snorkelers,
divers and recreational fishing.

Looped around the anchors is a length of 3/8" stainless
steel chain to which is attached a hefty stainless steel
swivel to which is attached two 25-foot lengths of 1/2"
three-strand nylon, eye spliced around two SS thimbles.

Question. The majority of "moorings" I've seen have use a "mushroom"
anchor. In Florida would a mushroom anchor, with a chain rode, etc.,
but without a buoy, be considered a mooring or an anchor

IMO, a mushroom anchor is an anchor. The only difference
between it and any other anchor is it's generally larger,
heaver, and not regularly weighed.

In Florida, especially the Keys, mushroom anchors are
pretty useless as there is usually just a sprinkling of
sand over hard rock (old coral) so there is mostly little
or no mud for them to sink well into so as to become
effective.

Bottom line, as far as I can tell, it's up to the captain
of the ship to decide if he's lying to a mooring or an
anchor but placing one of those white balls with the
blue strip around it declares it to be a mooring. Where
moorings must be permitted in order to be legal, the
prudent skipper will use the term *anchor or anchors*
instead of mooring. However, anything actually drilled
into bottom will meet the legal definition of a mooring.

No. My question was prompted by you saying"moorings" require a permit
so you call your manhole covers "anchors" which satisfy's officials
that you do not have a "mooring".

Does that mean that Florida defines a "mooring" only as a driven pile
or other permanent fastening to the sea floor?

That's the opinion of the FWC aka the Marine Patrol.

Actually, it would appear that Florida has not defined
what constitutes a mooring in the definitions of the
statutes. See for yourself:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...s/0327.02.html

All the more reason to NOT call heavy anchors a mooring.

Why jeopardize your own case should the Marine Patrol
decide to give you a ticket?

That seems logical. After all it really doesn't make any difference
whether you anchor or moor to a permanent holding of some sort, the
question is really "do we want you to be there"?

Over here many ports have specified anchorages where, depending on the
type of vessel, you can park. Singapore, for example has specified
areas in the harbor for yachts, tankers, general cargo boats, and so
on, that is the only place you are allowed to anchor. If you anchor in
any other place the marine police will be around to tell you to move
and if you don't move the marine police call a tug to move you, at
your cost.

--
Cheers,

Bruce