On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:20:57 +0700, Bruce in bangkok
wrote:

Please post a reference to your post that you reference above. I ask
as I am using an android phone and it seems to be able to receive and
post GPS signals directly from the satellites.

I am using an application called "OsmAnd" that has the ability to
download and store charts on the phone.

===

Bruce, not sure if you are replying to me or not. If you're
interested in the Navionics charts and apps, they are on the Google
store. The GPS definitely works directly from the satellites contrary
to what someone else posted.

On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 18:47:00 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq·"
åke wrote:

I often marvel at how some people operate fifty-foot motor yachts worth
a million bucks and hanging off the bow is a 30 pound SS Danforth -
in other words, all show and no function. So why does somebody
with half a million dollars worth of motor yacht justify using a cell
phone for navigation??

===

I don't think anyone does that. I sometimes use mine in the dinghy
(protected by a zip lock bag), and it is also one of my numerous back
up devices. The charts are surprisingly decent, and although not as
good as my Furuno/C-map, they are a small fraction of the cost.

As an FYI, we use a 88 pound Rocna on all chain. Great anchor.

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:26:09 +0700, Bruce in bangkok
wrote:

But Gregory, a 30 lb. danforth will hold a boat perfectly well. It
depends on the anchorage and the weather and water.

===

We have used a 30 lb Danforth as a day anchor in some pretty severe
conditions. With enough scope and a good bottom it holds our 70,000
pound trawler just fine (30 kt winds, exposed anchorage with 3 to 5 ft
seas).

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 20:39:04 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:20:57 +0700, Bruce in bangkok
wrote:

Please post a reference to your post that you reference above. I ask
as I am using an android phone and it seems to be able to receive and
post GPS signals directly from the satellites.

I am using an application called "OsmAnd" that has the ability to
download and store charts on the phone.

===

Bruce, not sure if you are replying to me or not. If you're
interested in the Navionics charts and apps, they are on the Google
store. The GPS definitely works directly from the satellites contrary
to what someone else posted.

Well, I was replying to you but apparently I was a bit mixed up with
who said what :-)

--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:26:09 +0700, Bruce in bangkok
wrote:

But Gregory, a 30 lb. danforth will hold a boat perfectly well. It
depends on the anchorage and the weather and water.

===

We have used a 30 lb Danforth as a day anchor in some pretty severe
conditions. With enough scope and a good bottom it holds our 70,000
pound trawler just fine (30 kt winds, exposed anchorage with 3 to 5 ft
seas).



LOL! There's a man confident in his luck!

Myself, I'd rather rely on using an anchor that is appropriate for the
heft and windage of the vessel. For a 70,000 pound trawler, a 45-pounder
would be the absolute minimum. Even so, I'd be sure to use two of them
Bahamian-style so I could feel secure through most any normal weather.
(Not talking tropical storms here!)

Tell me, please, do you set an anchor alarm on your GPS?

I bet you do? If so, then that pretty much negates your feigned
confidence in your undersized day anchor. And, besides, a
so-called day anchor is a rude operation. You said yourself that
you put out lots of length (scope). If the water is 20 feet deep
that means you put out at least 7:1 scope or close to 150
feet. That means you swing a very large circle and might get
too close to those who use a larger anchor and more conservative
scope. Unless it's all chain, that also means possible chaffing
snagging and abrasion on coral heads and sharp rocks.

And you stink-potters wonder why we sailing seaman don't want
much of anything to do with you?

I wonder why?

--
Sir Gregory



--
Sir Gregory

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 18:47:00 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq·"
åke wrote:

I often marvel at how some people operate fifty-foot motor yachts worth
a million bucks and hanging off the bow is a 30 pound SS Danforth -
in other words, all show and no function. So why does somebody
with half a million dollars worth of motor yacht justify using a cell
phone for navigation??

===

I don't think anyone does that. I sometimes use mine in the dinghy
(protected by a zip lock bag), and it is also one of my numerous back
up devices. The charts are surprisingly decent, and although not as
good as my Furuno/C-map, they are a small fraction of the cost.

As an FYI, we use a 88 pound Rocna on all chain. Great anchor.


That's MUCH better! But, you would be the exception, rather than the
rule when it comes to stink potters. Honestly, some large powerboats
(fifty-foot range) with a lot of windage arrive in my home anchorage from
time to time and not a few of them drop a polished SS plough or chromed
Danforth-style that weighs all of 30 pounds. Then they commence to
drag in even normal winds of 15-20 knots. Then they try again, and again,
and again. Do they even notice the 50 pounds of grass and mud clogging
their anchors - apparently not.Then they try backing down on it as if that's
going to give them different results. It takes them sometimes an hour or
so of futility before they finally give up and go elsewhere.

Such ineptitude is generally a function of the stink potters. A sailboat will
arrive and they generally have anchors as large or even larger than they
need for the size of their boat and they seem to have much greater
success and hold well until a severe thunderstorm with 60kt winds
happens to blow in and then they are on their way downwind frantically
trying to get things back under control.


--
Sir Gregory

--
Sir Gregory

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 16:32:57 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq·"
åke wrote:

But Gregory, a 30 lb. danforth will hold a boat perfectly well. It
depends on the anchorage and the weather and water.

===

We have used a 30 lb Danforth as a day anchor in some pretty severe
conditions. With enough scope and a good bottom it holds our 70,000
pound trawler just fine (30 kt winds, exposed anchorage with 3 to 5 ft
seas).



LOL! There's a man confident in his luck!

Myself, I'd rather rely on using an anchor that is appropriate for the
heft and windage of the vessel.

We would also but were doing race committee duty at Key West Race Week
at the time and rapid anchor retrieval was a requirement. I was
surprised at how well the Danforth held out there in Hawk Channel on a
*very* windy day.


For a 70,000 pound trawler, a 45-pounder
would be the absolute minimum. Even so, I'd be sure to use two of them
Bahamian-style so I could feel secure through most any normal weather.
(Not talking tropical storms here!)

Tell me, please, do you set an anchor alarm on your GPS?

Absolutely not. We back down hard with a pair of 30 inch, 4 bladed
props. If the anchor holds with that, it will hold in up to a full
gale.


I bet you do? If so, then that pretty much negates your feigned
confidence in your undersized day anchor. And, besides, a
so-called day anchor is a rude operation.

You'd bet wrong.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 16:32:57 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq·"
åke wrote:

But Gregory, a 30 lb. danforth will hold a boat perfectly well. It
depends on the anchorage and the weather and water.

===

We have used a 30 lb Danforth as a day anchor in some pretty severe
conditions. With enough scope and a good bottom it holds our 70,000
pound trawler just fine (30 kt winds, exposed anchorage with 3 to 5 ft
seas).



LOL! There's a man confident in his luck!

Myself, I'd rather rely on using an anchor that is appropriate for the
heft and windage of the vessel.

We would also but were doing race committee duty at Key West Race Week
at the time and rapid anchor retrieval was a requirement. I was
surprised at how well the Danforth held out there in Hawk Channel on a
*very* windy day.

Hawk Channel has varied bottoms. Some sandy patches and some
hard, rocky areas. If you drop anchor in a sandy patch it will hold
well until you get a thunderstory with an 180 degree wind shift ---
then you have to HOPE the Danforth will reset. Danforth's aren't
noted for reliably resetting themselves as I'm sure you know.

That's why I prefer two anchor laid out Bahamian Style. That way
no matter what the wind does the anchors keep pulling against
each other and don't have to trip over and reset.

But, two anchors would never do when fast anchor retrieval was
the requirement.

For a 70,000 pound trawler, a 45-pounder
would be the absolute minimum. Even so, I'd be sure to use two of them
Bahamian-style so I could feel secure through most any normal weather.
(Not talking tropical storms here!)

Tell me, please, do you set an anchor alarm on your GPS?

Absolutely not. We back down hard with a pair of 30 inch, 4 bladed
props. If the anchor holds with that, it will hold in up to a full
gale.

Unless there is that aforementioned strong windshift . . .


I bet you do? If so, then that pretty much negates your feigned
confidence in your undersized day anchor. And, besides, a
so-called day anchor is a rude operation.

You'd bet wrong.

C'mon? Not even at night? I find that difficult to believe.

--
Sir Gregory

rOn Tue, 3 Sep 2013 16:32:57 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq·"
åke wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:26:09 +0700, Bruce in bangkok
wrote:

But Gregory, a 30 lb. danforth will hold a boat perfectly well. It
depends on the anchorage and the weather and water.

===

We have used a 30 lb Danforth as a day anchor in some pretty severe
conditions. With enough scope and a good bottom it holds our 70,000
pound trawler just fine (30 kt winds, exposed anchorage with 3 to 5 ft
seas).



LOL! There's a man confident in his luck!

Myself, I'd rather rely on using an anchor that is appropriate for the
heft and windage of the vessel. For a 70,000 pound trawler, a 45-pounder
would be the absolute minimum. Even so, I'd be sure to use two of them
Bahamian-style so I could feel secure through most any normal weather.
(Not talking tropical storms here!)


Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.

The Mont, later renamed several times and last named the Seawise
Giant, claimed to be the largest ship to ever sail the seas, had a
gross weight of 825,614 tons and used a 86 ton anchor. i.e. the ship
was 22,937.7 times the weight of the anchor.

The Trawler you describe is 1,555.5 times the weight of the anchor
that you mention.

Or perhaps a better way to describe it is the trawler gross weight to
anchor ratio is far higher then that of what is said to have been the
largest ship in the world.

Using your criteria of gross weight to anchor weight the trawler
should be using an anchor of 3.05 pounds.

Or, to put it another way... you have proven, yet again, that you
don't know what you are talking about.


Tell me, please, do you set an anchor alarm on your GPS?

I bet you do? If so, then that pretty much negates your feigned
confidence in your undersized day anchor. And, besides, a
so-called day anchor is a rude operation. You said yourself that
you put out lots of length (scope). If the water is 20 feet deep
that means you put out at least 7:1 scope or close to 150
feet. That means you swing a very large circle and might get
too close to those who use a larger anchor and more conservative
scope. Unless it's all chain, that also means possible chaffing
snagging and abrasion on coral heads and sharp rocks.

And you stink-potters wonder why we sailing seaman don't want
much of anything to do with you?

I wonder why?

--
Sir Gregory
--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok

"Bruce in bangkok" wrote in message
...
rOn Tue, 3 Sep 2013 16:32:57 -0400, " Sir Gregory Hall, Esq·"
åke wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:26:09 +0700, Bruce in bangkok
wrote:

But Gregory, a 30 lb. danforth will hold a boat perfectly well. It
depends on the anchorage and the weather and water.

===

We have used a 30 lb Danforth as a day anchor in some pretty severe
conditions. With enough scope and a good bottom it holds our 70,000
pound trawler just fine (30 kt winds, exposed anchorage with 3 to 5 ft
seas).



LOL! There's a man confident in his luck!

Myself, I'd rather rely on using an anchor that is appropriate for the
heft and windage of the vessel. For a 70,000 pound trawler, a 45-pounder
would be the absolute minimum. Even so, I'd be sure to use two of them
Bahamian-style so I could feel secure through most any normal weather.
(Not talking tropical storms here!)


Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.

The Mont, later renamed several times and last named the Seawise
Giant, claimed to be the largest ship to ever sail the seas, had a
gross weight of 825,614 tons and used a 86 ton anchor. i.e. the ship
was 22,937.7 times the weight of the anchor.

The Trawler you describe is 1,555.5 times the weight of the anchor
that you mention.

Or perhaps a better way to describe it is the trawler gross weight to
anchor ratio is far higher then that of what is said to have been the
largest ship in the world.

Using your criteria of gross weight to anchor weight the trawler
should be using an anchor of 3.05 pounds.

Or, to put it another way... you have proven, yet again, that you
don't know what you are talking about.

Did I not also mention windage? Weight is of less consequence
in smaller private yachts than is windage. So your diatribe has
little actual meaning when it comes to smaller recreational craft
as it's not the weight that breaks them loose but the force of
the wind acting upon their surface area exposed to the wind.

Get a clue, dock boy! If you had a BILLION pound ship but
no wind or current you could anchor it with a ten-pound rock
and it would stay put.

--
Sir Gregory