how necessary is a windlass
 

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:50:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:50:24 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

We have a winner, folks!

212 lines

I have no idea what this means....



He's whining about your not trimming outdated and irrelevant material from
your posts. That's why I called him a net nanny.

Wilbur Hubbard


Thus speaks the fart.

Willy-boy I keep telling you that you flaunt your ignorance every time
you open your mouth.

Sadly you don't listen.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

how necessary is a windlass
 

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:35:30 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Jessica B wrote:

Hmmm... well, I looked up theoretical boat speed... 1.34 x the root of
LWL. But, I read that when the boat leans (heels) then the LWL would
get longer, so the theoretical speed would go up right? Also, what
about the water moving. If it's going in the same direction, then that
would decrease the time you spend traveling.



But how MUCH longer does the waterline get?
Seldom more than a few inches at most.

As for the other, it's called current.
And if you are going against it, slower than the current is running,
you go backwards...
What fun, huh?


The long overhangs was a relic of one of the old racing rules that
penalized long waterlines. So, the crafty people built a boat with a
very short waterline and sailed it heeled and had a effective
waterline much longer then what was measured for handy cap rating.

Current is only a real help in the few instances where it always runs
the same way. The more usual conditions have it going one way for a
half a day and the other way for the other half. Net help = Zero.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

how necessary is a windlass
 

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:20:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:19:55 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 19:38:06 -0700, Mark Borgerson
wrote:

However, part of the problem in that conversion is that you can
get a 36' sailboat in decent condition for about half the cost
of a 36' trawler.

Considering that the trawler probably has more than twice as much
livable space and a lot more comfortable, not such a bad deal. :-)




It's a bad deal for the environment as marine diesel engines are notorious
for the huge amounts of air pollution they spew. And, they drip oil and
fuel
and foul the bilges which foul bilge water and fuel dregs are then pumped
into the water.

I never could understand how anybody in their right mind could be
justified
in thinking that their fun takes precedence over folks who wish to breathe
clean air. It's such a me me me, selfish attitude. It reeks of elitism and
hypocrisy.

Really, it's no different than Al Gore flying all over the glove in his
private jet then complaining about how much pollution and CO2 other people
are responsible for.

Yah, right!


Wilbur Hubbard


I don't either... all that smell.. yuk!


Motor-head boaters seem to become immune to their own noise and air
pollution. I guess they smell the exhaust fumes and hear the cacophony so
often and so long that their sense of smell and their hearing modifies so
they can't smell or hear it anymore.

Why else would some of them be so rude as to arrive in an anchorage and
anchor UPWIND of everybody and then run a smelly diesel generator all day
and all night just so they can have plenty of electricity for all the
household crap they have on board. I just wish people like that would STAY
home. What's the use of sailing when you float the farm, so to speak? You
ruin the experience for most of the other travelers and are too selfish to
understand what you're doing?

Take an example a lubber might understand. A lubber goes to a campground in
a State Park and sets up his little tent in the woods and hopes to have a
good time cooking over the campfire, perhaps catching a fish in the stream
and enjoying the ambience. And, along comes a giant motor home that parks
right upwind from his campsite, blocks most of the view, runs a smelly,
noisy generator all night long, plays loud music, has a couple of dogs that
bark all night, throws his trash and cigarette butts all over the place,
empties his holding tank on the ground, disgorges a couple of motorbikes and
blasts them, without mufflers, through the woods around and around for hours
(equivalent to a jet-ski) etc. Would the tent camper want to shoot the
inconsiderate *******? You bet he would. Yet motor boaters and some of the
larger sail boaters seem to think this sort of crap is cool and other
boaters will envy them and enjoy their presence. Freaking LUNATICS!

Wilbur Hubbard

Oh Willie-boy, such an exciting description, but I thought this was a
cruising group... Oh,I see. One who doesn't sail can't be a cruiser
and is left little choice but to describe his shore side experiences.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

how necessary is a windlass
 

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:59:22 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:07:57 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:02:48 -0700, Jessica B
wrote:
snip


Ok... so if you have boat that'll go 10 mph and the reverse tide is
pulling you at 5 mph vs. you have a boat that'll only go 5 mph....

You are still looking at speeds in excess of what the "normal"
cruising boat is capable of sustaining for any cruise.


No Jessica is NOT. For example, my fast, blue water yacht, "Cut the
Mustard"
made a passage from Mobile Bay to Egmont Key (Tampa Bay). The time from
sea
buoy to sea buoy was 36 hours. The distance was 300 miles.

300 divided by 36 = 8.3 mph average! The LWL of my fine yacht is 22 feet.
Theoretical hull speed is only about seven knots. But, as you can see, the
theory doesn't always describe fact. So, Jessica is not talking speeds in
excess of normal. If my small yacht can average 8.3mph then imagine the
speeds a fast sailing yacht with a LWL of forty feet could average.

Now, Bruce, if you had ever sailed a real fast cruising boat and not that
big fat rotten old tub you live at the dock in you might have gotten
around
the world in half the time it took you just to get to Thailand.


Wilbur Hubbard


Hmmm... well, I looked up theoretical boat speed... 1.34 x the root of
LWL. But, I read that when the boat leans (heels) then the LWL would
get longer, so the theoretical speed would go up right? Also, what
about the water moving. If it's going in the same direction, then that
would decrease the time you spend traveling.


Ding, ding, ding!! You are correct, Jessica B (I guess the B stands for
'Brilliant'. But, it won't go up much as the multiplier is the square root
of the extra distance.

And, yes, currents can and do make a significant difference. Consider a
sailboat with a theoretical hull speed of five knots sailing north in the
axis of the Gulf Stream. Let's say it has a fair wind and is doing five
knots through the water. Now, the current in the axis sets north about 3-4
knots so that boat sailing north could well have a speed over the ground of
8-9 knots and if this keeps up for 24 hours the benefit of the current is
very apparent. So, unlike the motor heads who just plow through the water.
willy-nilly, full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes, ignoring the affects
of wind and current, a sailboat captain must be more aware and more
intelligent of all factors affecting course made good.

Wilbur Hubbard

Thus speaks Capt. (outboard) Willie. Can anyone say Hypocrite? Or
Phoney?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

how necessary is a windlass
 

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 23:54:10 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Jessica B wrote:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:35:30 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Jessica B wrote:
Hmmm... well, I looked up theoretical boat speed... 1.34 x the root of
LWL. But, I read that when the boat leans (heels) then the LWL would
get longer, so the theoretical speed would go up right? Also, what
about the water moving. If it's going in the same direction, then that
would decrease the time you spend traveling.


But how MUCH longer does the waterline get?
Seldom more than a few inches at most.

As for the other, it's called current.
And if you are going against it, slower than the current is running,
you go backwards...
What fun, huh?

Well, I looked at some pictures, and it seems to me that it would be
more than that... like this one.

http://www.xsracing.org/images/home/8113.jpg

Ok, current, so what about that?


How would I know?
I'm rude, remember?

I guess you don't. I thought you had a boat. I guess that must not
actually be true.

how necessary is a windlass
 

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:08:50 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message



You could just drop your sail and you'd still be going. That's cool.


Just like Tom Sawyer going down the Mississippi . . .


Yes... I wonder if that's all a couple of people here can manage?

how necessary is a windlass
 

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:20:47 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:20:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
snip


Motor-head boaters seem to become immune to their own noise and air
pollution. I guess they smell the exhaust fumes and hear the cacophony so
often and so long that their sense of smell and their hearing modifies so
they can't smell or hear it anymore.

Why else would some of them be so rude as to arrive in an anchorage and
anchor UPWIND of everybody and then run a smelly diesel generator all day
and all night just so they can have plenty of electricity for all the
household crap they have on board. I just wish people like that would STAY
home. What's the use of sailing when you float the farm, so to speak? You
ruin the experience for most of the other travelers and are too selfish to
understand what you're doing?

I'm hoping that if (when?) we work out the details, you wouldn't let
that happen to us!

Rest assured, I will find us a nice quiet anchorage all of our own with no
motorboats within miles. I got your email that you will be working on
details later on when things become more concrete.

As my brother would say, "Bitchin!" :-)

Neither of us are interested in motor smell. I'm going to email you
later hopefullly with some more details.



Take an example a lubber might understand. A lubber goes to a campground
in
a State Park and sets up his little tent in the woods and hopes to have a
good time cooking over the campfire, perhaps catching a fish in the stream
and enjoying the ambience. And, along comes a giant motor home that parks
right upwind from his campsite, blocks most of the view, runs a smelly,
noisy generator all night long, plays loud music, has a couple of dogs
that
bark all night, throws his trash and cigarette butts all over the place,
empties his holding tank on the ground, disgorges a couple of motorbikes
and
blasts them, without mufflers, through the woods around and around for
hours
(equivalent to a jet-ski) etc. Would the tent camper want to shoot the
inconsiderate *******? You bet he would. Yet motor boaters and some of the
larger sail boaters seem to think this sort of crap is cool and other
boaters will envy them and enjoy their presence. Freaking LUNATICS!

Wilbur Hubbard


Oh... land lubber. Ok... confused me for a minute.

Exactly though... pick up your sh*t. I mean HELLO?


Yup, land lubbers are mostly what one sees these days out here on the water.
They are like cockroaches - you can't stamp them out. I just wish they would
stay ashore where they belong. They have no respect for anything. They use
the water as their 'getaway' and they think their 'fun' comes first over the
RIGHTS of others. Such a selfish attitude and totally out of place on the
water.

Here is a good example for you of just how awful some of these jerks really
are. Two fishermen were arrested a few months ago for cutting the pouch of a
couple of pelicans because they claimed the pelicans were eating *their*
fish. Duh. I would say the fishermen where catching and eating the pelican's
fish. A cut pouch causes the pelican to slowly starve to death because when
they dive on a fish the pouch doesn't contain it. The fish escapes out the
slit in the pouch. Maybe the fishermen are the ones who needed their
throats cut.

Wilbur Hubbard



I don't see how anyone could be so cruel. That's really a sad story.

how necessary is a windlass
 

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:46:15 -0700, Jessica B
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:03:25 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
. ..
trimmed all of Bruce's gibberish

I can't imagine that having a good boat and proceeding at as fast as
possible to avoid bad weather would somehow be more dangerous.

Sorry, but I just don't understand the logic.


You don't understand it because it's ignorance that resides behind Bruce's
misconceptions. It's the old justification those who sail slowcoaches use so
they don't become upset at how they bought the wrong boat that is actually
less safe because it won't get out of its own way. While a fast boat like
mine is safe in a protected harbor a slowcoach like Bruce's will be in the
teeth of a storm and could well founder.

Wilbur Hubbard



I'd love to hear the logic if he wants, but I guess he doesn't want.

You are certainly correct that your boat will be in port before mine
as your great voyage (documented with photos) is down the bay and
back.

The great Sailor - down the bay and back.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

how necessary is a windlass
 

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:08:50 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
m


You could just drop your sail and you'd still be going. That's cool.


Just like Tom Sawyer going down the Mississippi . . .


Yes... I wonder if that's all a couple of people here can manage?



Like poor Bruce? LOL. He has to wait for the occasional Tsunami. Hey, I
heard Thailand just had a 7.0 RS earthquake. I hope it didn't wreck Bruce's
dock.


Wilbur Hubbard

how necessary is a windlass
 

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:20:47 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:20:48 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
snip


Motor-head boaters seem to become immune to their own noise and air
pollution. I guess they smell the exhaust fumes and hear the cacophony
so
often and so long that their sense of smell and their hearing modifies
so
they can't smell or hear it anymore.

Why else would some of them be so rude as to arrive in an anchorage and
anchor UPWIND of everybody and then run a smelly diesel generator all
day
and all night just so they can have plenty of electricity for all the
household crap they have on board. I just wish people like that would
STAY
home. What's the use of sailing when you float the farm, so to speak?
You
ruin the experience for most of the other travelers and are too selfish
to
understand what you're doing?

I'm hoping that if (when?) we work out the details, you wouldn't let
that happen to us!

Rest assured, I will find us a nice quiet anchorage all of our own with no
motorboats within miles. I got your email that you will be working on
details later on when things become more concrete.

As my brother would say, "Bitchin!" :-)

Neither of us are interested in motor smell. I'm going to email you
later hopefullly with some more details.


JMB just e-mailed me. She sounds like an organized person and a go-getter. I
CC'd you my reply to her. Things are looking good. She's got some firm dates
in mind so check your inbox. Sounds like she's planning to rent a car at the
airport so you two should coordinate your flights if you can so you can ride
together. It sure would save me time going back and forth twice to the
airport. In exchange I've offered to get you guys a room while you're here
so you can have all the luxuries you're used to and a safe place for your
luggage. Sounds like a deal to me. ;-)



snippage



Yup, land lubbers are mostly what one sees these days out here on the
water.
They are like cockroaches - you can't stamp them out. I just wish they
would
stay ashore where they belong. They have no respect for anything. They
use
the water as their 'getaway' and they think their 'fun' comes first over
the
RIGHTS of others. Such a selfish attitude and totally out of place on the
water.

Here is a good example for you of just how awful some of these jerks
really
are. Two fishermen were arrested a few months ago for cutting the pouch of
a
couple of pelicans because they claimed the pelicans were eating *their*
fish. Duh. I would say the fishermen where catching and eating the
pelican's
fish. A cut pouch causes the pelican to slowly starve to death because
when
they dive on a fish the pouch doesn't contain it. The fish escapes out the
slit in the pouch. Maybe the fishermen are the ones who needed their
throats cut.


I don't see how anyone could be so cruel. That's really a sad story.


Some humans are, I swear, sub-human. Even the animals they abuse are more
evolved.