Gogarty wrote:
In article s.com,
llid says...
It's good to hear that Abbey is alive, at least.

But, I just wanted to take this opportunity to say, "I told you so!"

My detractors, who disrespect my vast storehouse of sailing knowledge and
experience, attempted to pooh-pooh my earlier statement that Abbey had too
much boat and she'd probably end up being dismasted. Anybody can Google my
postings at the start of her hapless record attempt and see where I made
that statement.

You don't take a know-nothing, inexperienced, scatterbrained, teen girl and
put her entirely in charge of a forty-foot, fickle race boat around the
world and expect anything but trouble. Everybody knows the rigs on these
boats are too light and flimsy. Everybody knows a single-hander must sleep,
etc. where no eye is on the ship. The ship simply cannot be expected to
survive on her own. Stupid parents, stupid sailing team, stupid weather
routers, stupid, stupid, stupid.

Well, it turns out good old Wilbur was right again. When are you people
going to learn that you'd just better not doubt me? Huh? I can't hear you.


Wilbur Hubbard


How's your refrigerator?


I have to agree with WH on the poor choice of boats for this trip,
but then even the last young girl to go around got knocked down a few
times and she was in a much better boat for this type of trip.
Gordon

"Gordon" wrote in message
m...
Gogarty wrote:
In article s.com,
llid says...
It's good to hear that Abbey is alive, at least.

But, I just wanted to take this opportunity to say, "I told you so!"

My detractors, who disrespect my vast storehouse of sailing knowledge
and experience, attempted to pooh-pooh my earlier statement that Abbey
had too much boat and she'd probably end up being dismasted. Anybody can
Google my postings at the start of her hapless record attempt and see
where I made that statement.

You don't take a know-nothing, inexperienced, scatterbrained, teen girl
and put her entirely in charge of a forty-foot, fickle race boat around
the world and expect anything but trouble. Everybody knows the rigs on
these boats are too light and flimsy. Everybody knows a single-hander
must sleep, etc. where no eye is on the ship. The ship simply cannot be
expected to survive on her own. Stupid parents, stupid sailing team,
stupid weather routers, stupid, stupid, stupid.

Well, it turns out good old Wilbur was right again. When are you people
going to learn that you'd just better not doubt me? Huh? I can't hear
you.


Wilbur Hubbard

How's your refrigerator?


I have to agree with WH on the poor choice of boats for this trip, but
then even the last young girl to go around got knocked down a few times
and she was in a much better boat for this type of trip.
Gordon

I won't agree with Wilburrr but I will with you. This was a point of
discussion when Abby first took off with a couple of us arguing that anyone,
especially without serious support, would be better off with a blue water
boat.

"Gordon" wrote in message
m...
Gogarty wrote:
In article s.com,
llid says...
It's good to hear that Abbey is alive, at least.

But, I just wanted to take this opportunity to say, "I told you so!"

My detractors, who disrespect my vast storehouse of sailing knowledge
and experience, attempted to pooh-pooh my earlier statement that Abbey
had too much boat and she'd probably end up being dismasted. Anybody can
Google my postings at the start of her hapless record attempt and see
where I made that statement.

You don't take a know-nothing, inexperienced, scatterbrained, teen girl
and put her entirely in charge of a forty-foot, fickle race boat around
the world and expect anything but trouble. Everybody knows the rigs on
these boats are too light and flimsy. Everybody knows a single-hander
must sleep, etc. where no eye is on the ship. The ship simply cannot be
expected to survive on her own. Stupid parents, stupid sailing team,
stupid weather routers, stupid, stupid, stupid.

Well, it turns out good old Wilbur was right again. When are you people
going to learn that you'd just better not doubt me? Huh? I can't hear
you.


Wilbur Hubbard

How's your refrigerator?


I have to agree with WH on the poor choice of boats for this trip, but
then even the last young girl to go around got knocked down a few times
and she was in a much better boat for this type of trip.
Gordon

I just checked out what boat her brother had sailed on his circumnavigation
and it was an Islander 36 with a 13,600 lb displacement and Abby's
"Wildeyes" displace 7,407 lbs.
Even though it's 4 feet longer than Zac's, it is literally half the boat.
I used to work with a guy that said he "planned for success". It took me a
while to figure out that his planning was based on nothing ever going wrong.
Poor, poor strategy.

I just checked out what boat her brother had sailed on his
circumnavigation
and it was an Islander 36 with a 13,600 lb displacement and Abby's
"Wildeyes" displace 7,407 lbs.
Even though it's 4 feet longer than Zac's, it is literally half the boat.
I used to work with a guy that said he "planned for success". It took me a
while to figure out that his planning was based on nothing ever going
wrong.
Poor, poor strategy.


The hull did not fail. People have circumnavigated sucessfully in
properly prepared and equipped Catalina 27's and Cal 33's, both of
which were obviously intended as coastal cruisers.

Not me brother. I've had my ass kicked thoroughly by mother ocean and it
wasn't fun.

The boat was not
the weakest link in this adventure, and was not what failed.

She deserves a lot of credit. She had the nads to get out there and give it
her best. Not many 16 yos have sailed that far by themselves (I'm half a
friggin century and haven't!) and it's not like she just quit.
Guess we'll find out what happened when she gets home.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:48:19 -0400, "mmc" wrote:



I just checked out what boat her brother had sailed on his
circumnavigation
and it was an Islander 36 with a 13,600 lb displacement and Abby's
"Wildeyes" displace 7,407 lbs.
Even though it's 4 feet longer than Zac's, it is literally half the
boat.
I used to work with a guy that said he "planned for success". It took me
a
while to figure out that his planning was based on nothing ever going
wrong.
Poor, poor strategy.


The hull did not fail. People have circumnavigated sucessfully in
properly prepared and equipped Catalina 27's and Cal 33's, both of
which were obviously intended as coastal cruisers.

Not me brother. I've had my ass kicked thoroughly by mother ocean and it
wasn't fun.


The point is, just about any boat can be set up to complete a
circumnavigation, and relatively safely. You can get your ass kicked
out there no matter how big or heavy your boat is. Have you taken a
good look at a mini-transat? Sunderland's boat was NOT the issue that
caused her to fail. If she did everything exactly the same but in a
Valiant 40, the results probably wouldn't have been much different.
Lots of very bad decisions were made.

The boat was not
the weakest link in this adventure, and was not what failed.

She deserves a lot of credit. She had the nads to get out there and give
it
her best. Not many 16 yos have sailed that far by themselves (I'm half a
friggin century and haven't!) and it's not like she just quit.
Guess we'll find out what happened when she gets home.


That's like saying someone deserves a lot of credit for having nads
because they walked across an 8 lane highway at night while
blindfolded.






Right you are. These liberal minded folks who think other people deserve a
lot of credit for trying and FAILING have no idea of what it means to
succeed at a task. The equate FAILURE with success and actually give kudos
for failure (trying and failing). What's next? are they going to be giving
kudos for people who don't even try and then fail? Probably.

The way I see it, the poor girl never had a chance. Her so-called team did
her a great disservice. The first indication was when she had to put into La
Paz in order to ship greater electrical generating systems. Duh! Didn't
anybody on her so-called team have half a brain and could sit down and
figure amps required vs. amps available?

Then there was the autopilot debacle. Double Duh! What morons allow a
circumnavigation to be compromised because they rely TOTALLY on two electric
autopilots? What were they thinking?

Then they routed the poor girl into the roaring forties in the wintertime.
One has to wonder if maybe mom and dad had a multi-million dollar life
insurance policy on the girl and needed some income desperately. Excuse me,
but wasn't this a circumnavigation? Why the need for speed in dangerous
latitudes? Somebody is very confused.

If this is what sailing has been reduced to in this day and age and people
think the sailor deserves kudos then there is little or no hope for
seamanship anymore.


Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

Right you are. These liberal minded folks who think other people deserve a
lot of credit for trying and FAILING have no idea of what it means to
succeed at a task. The equate FAILURE with success and actually give kudos
for failure (trying and failing). What's next? are they going to be giving
kudos for people who don't even try and then fail? Probably.

The way I see it, the poor girl never had a chance. Her so-called team did
her a great disservice. The first indication was when she had to put into La
Paz in order to ship greater electrical generating systems. Duh! Didn't
anybody on her so-called team have half a brain and could sit down and
figure amps required vs. amps available?

Then there was the autopilot debacle. Double Duh! What morons allow a
circumnavigation to be compromised because they rely TOTALLY on two electric
autopilots? What were they thinking?

Then they routed the poor girl into the roaring forties in the wintertime.
One has to wonder if maybe mom and dad had a multi-million dollar life
insurance policy on the girl and needed some income desperately. Excuse me,
but wasn't this a circumnavigation? Why the need for speed in dangerous
latitudes? Somebody is very confused.

If this is what sailing has been reduced to in this day and age and people
think the sailor deserves kudos then there is little or no hope for
seamanship anymore.

Failure? Depends upon how you define success. She failed at one of her
goals, but certainly succeeded at a few others. For example, she
survived. That right there is surely a huge success. The main success,
really. She also has generated massive publicity for herself that she
can and probably will use if she wants to, as a springboard to other
great things for herself.

Anyone attempting great things should be doing it for the journey, not
the destination, and she had one hell of a journey, including some
pretty amazing saves she accomplished in very hairy conditions, like
when the sail got snagged on the spreaders and she had to go up the mast
in heavy weather to free it. Huge success right there. There were many
others.

No, anyone who views success and failure as you recommend, who sits home
instead of going for their dreams as you told Skip to do, because they
could be better at this or better at that, because they might fail in
their ultimate goal, because they even might die; well those people are
the ones who will be miserable failures, bitter and jealous of almost
anyone accomplishes anything. They miss their chance at a good life due
to their irrational fear of failure and hate almost everyone who is
doing what they should be doing.

Stephen

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:28:40 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:48:19 -0400, "mmc" wrote:



I just checked out what boat her brother had sailed on his
circumnavigation
and it was an Islander 36 with a 13,600 lb displacement and Abby's
"Wildeyes" displace 7,407 lbs.
Even though it's 4 feet longer than Zac's, it is literally half the
boat.
I used to work with a guy that said he "planned for success". It took
me
a
while to figure out that his planning was based on nothing ever going
wrong.
Poor, poor strategy.


The hull did not fail. People have circumnavigated sucessfully in
properly prepared and equipped Catalina 27's and Cal 33's, both of
which were obviously intended as coastal cruisers.

Not me brother. I've had my ass kicked thoroughly by mother ocean and it
wasn't fun.


The point is, just about any boat can be set up to complete a
circumnavigation, and relatively safely. You can get your ass kicked
out there no matter how big or heavy your boat is. Have you taken a
good look at a mini-transat? Sunderland's boat was NOT the issue that
caused her to fail. If she did everything exactly the same but in a
Valiant 40, the results probably wouldn't have been much different.
Lots of very bad decisions were made.

The boat was not
the weakest link in this adventure, and was not what failed.

She deserves a lot of credit. She had the nads to get out there and give
it
her best. Not many 16 yos have sailed that far by themselves (I'm half a
friggin century and haven't!) and it's not like she just quit.
Guess we'll find out what happened when she gets home.


That's like saying someone deserves a lot of credit for having nads
because they walked across an 8 lane highway at night while
blindfolded.






Right you are. These liberal minded folks who think other people deserve a
lot of credit for trying and FAILING have no idea of what it means to
succeed at a task. The equate FAILURE with success and actually give kudos
for failure (trying and failing). What's next? are they going to be giving
kudos for people who don't even try and then fail? Probably.

The way I see it, the poor girl never had a chance. Her so-called team did
her a great disservice. The first indication was when she had to put into
La
Paz in order to ship greater electrical generating systems. Duh! Didn't
anybody on her so-called team have half a brain and could sit down and
figure amps required vs. amps available?

Then there was the autopilot debacle. Double Duh! What morons allow a
circumnavigation to be compromised because they rely TOTALLY on two
electric
autopilots? What were they thinking?

Then they routed the poor girl into the roaring forties in the wintertime.
One has to wonder if maybe mom and dad had a multi-million dollar life
insurance policy on the girl and needed some income desperately. Excuse
me,
but wasn't this a circumnavigation? Why the need for speed in dangerous
latitudes? Somebody is very confused.

If this is what sailing has been reduced to in this day and age and people
think the sailor deserves kudos then there is little or no hope for
seamanship anymore.


Wilbur Hubbard


Most people who circumnavigate in a sailboat are interested in seeing
the world. Abby's over-riding desire was to set a record. And not a
record for doing something especially well. She wanted the record for
simply doing something at a younger age. When someone is considered
"good for their age", it's not always really intended as a compliment.
This escapade is in the same category as "balloon boy".

If she was truly interested in the circumnavigation itself, she would
have waited until conditions and timing were far better. She couldn't
wait, because then she wouldn't be the youngest. She was only
interested in the money she would make and the attention.




Agreed! And, look deeper. Who inculcated that warped, ego-centric attitude
into her at such a tender age?

Her parents, of course. Her parents are publicity whores living vicariously
through their kids. I see them as "Little Miss America" parents. What little
girl would even consider being Little Miss America on her own? What little
girl would have as her heart's desire trying to set the record for youngest
around on her own?

Sadly, she is no sailor. She's a cheap, little, publicity puppy bred by her
whore parents. Even had to have a pretend, open-forty, race boat of her own
to complete the fairy tale.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" skrev i melding
anews.com...
wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:28:40 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:48:19 -0400, "mmc" wrote:



I just checked out what boat her brother had sailed on his
circumnavigation
and it was an Islander 36 with a 13,600 lb displacement and Abby's
"Wildeyes" displace 7,407 lbs.
Even though it's 4 feet longer than Zac's, it is literally half the
boat.
I used to work with a guy that said he "planned for success". It took
me
a
while to figure out that his planning was based on nothing ever going
wrong.
Poor, poor strategy.


The hull did not fail. People have circumnavigated sucessfully in
properly prepared and equipped Catalina 27's and Cal 33's, both of
which were obviously intended as coastal cruisers.

Not me brother. I've had my ass kicked thoroughly by mother ocean and
it
wasn't fun.


The point is, just about any boat can be set up to complete a
circumnavigation, and relatively safely. You can get your ass kicked
out there no matter how big or heavy your boat is. Have you taken a
good look at a mini-transat? Sunderland's boat was NOT the issue that
caused her to fail. If she did everything exactly the same but in a
Valiant 40, the results probably wouldn't have been much different.
Lots of very bad decisions were made.

The boat was not
the weakest link in this adventure, and was not what failed.

She deserves a lot of credit. She had the nads to get out there and
give
it
her best. Not many 16 yos have sailed that far by themselves (I'm half
a
friggin century and haven't!) and it's not like she just quit.
Guess we'll find out what happened when she gets home.


That's like saying someone deserves a lot of credit for having nads
because they walked across an 8 lane highway at night while
blindfolded.






Right you are. These liberal minded folks who think other people deserve
a
lot of credit for trying and FAILING have no idea of what it means to
succeed at a task. The equate FAILURE with success and actually give
kudos
for failure (trying and failing). What's next? are they going to be
giving
kudos for people who don't even try and then fail? Probably.

The way I see it, the poor girl never had a chance. Her so-called team
did
her a great disservice. The first indication was when she had to put into
La
Paz in order to ship greater electrical generating systems. Duh! Didn't
anybody on her so-called team have half a brain and could sit down and
figure amps required vs. amps available?

Then there was the autopilot debacle. Double Duh! What morons allow a
circumnavigation to be compromised because they rely TOTALLY on two
electric
autopilots? What were they thinking?

Then they routed the poor girl into the roaring forties in the
wintertime.
One has to wonder if maybe mom and dad had a multi-million dollar life
insurance policy on the girl and needed some income desperately. Excuse
me,
but wasn't this a circumnavigation? Why the need for speed in dangerous
latitudes? Somebody is very confused.

If this is what sailing has been reduced to in this day and age and
people
think the sailor deserves kudos then there is little or no hope for
seamanship anymore.


Wilbur Hubbard


Most people who circumnavigate in a sailboat are interested in seeing
the world. Abby's over-riding desire was to set a record. And not a
record for doing something especially well. She wanted the record for
simply doing something at a younger age. When someone is considered
"good for their age", it's not always really intended as a compliment.
This escapade is in the same category as "balloon boy".

If she was truly interested in the circumnavigation itself, she would
have waited until conditions and timing were far better. She couldn't
wait, because then she wouldn't be the youngest. She was only
interested in the money she would make and the attention.




Agreed! And, look deeper. Who inculcated that warped, ego-centric attitude
into her at such a tender age?

Her parents, of course. Her parents are publicity whores living
vicariously through their kids. I see them as "Little Miss America"
parents. What little girl would even consider being Little Miss America on
her own? What little girl would have as her heart's desire trying to set
the record for youngest around on her own?

Sadly, she is no sailor. She's a cheap, little, publicity puppy bred by
her whore parents. Even had to have a pretend, open-forty, race boat of
her own to complete the fairy tale.

Wilbur Hubbard


And you are a sick little pervert. I assume that your expertise in failures
is based on your own life.

Jan wrote:
/snip/ Even had to have a pretend, open-forty, race
boat of her own to complete the fairy tale.

Wilbur Hubbard


And you are a sick little pervert. I assume that your expertise in
failures is based on your own life.

This must be the most pertinent comment on the voyage that one woman
will remember all her days - the memory of which will help her develop
more iron in her backbone, than Wilbur has in his 'mended' boom.

Brian W

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:48:19 -0400, "mmc" wrote:



I just checked out what boat her brother had sailed on his
circumnavigation
and it was an Islander 36 with a 13,600 lb displacement and Abby's
"Wildeyes" displace 7,407 lbs.
Even though it's 4 feet longer than Zac's, it is literally half the
boat.
I used to work with a guy that said he "planned for success". It took me
a
while to figure out that his planning was based on nothing ever going
wrong.
Poor, poor strategy.


The hull did not fail. People have circumnavigated sucessfully in
properly prepared and equipped Catalina 27's and Cal 33's, both of
which were obviously intended as coastal cruisers.

Not me brother. I've had my ass kicked thoroughly by mother ocean and it
wasn't fun.


The point is, just about any boat can be set up to complete a
circumnavigation, and relatively safely. You can get your ass kicked
out there no matter how big or heavy your boat is. Have you taken a
good look at a mini-transat? Sunderland's boat was NOT the issue that
caused her to fail. If she did everything exactly the same but in a
Valiant 40, the results probably wouldn't have been much different.
Lots of very bad decisions were made.

Sure, going to add glass to the hull and build in some stringers and ribs?
Replace the rigging with over sized wire and fittings? Beef up the rudder
and maybe the steering system? Add some ballast to make the boat stiffer?
Hell, while we're at it why don't we stretch it a little to give it more
waterline?
You "can" make a parachute out of bedsheets too but anyone with an IQ over
40 probably wouldn't want to.
Why not just get a boat that's already fit for this duty?

The boat was not
the weakest link in this adventure, and was not what failed.

She deserves a lot of credit. She had the nads to get out there and give
it
her best. Not many 16 yos have sailed that far by themselves (I'm half a
friggin century and haven't!) and it's not like she just quit.
Guess we'll find out what happened when she gets home.


That's like saying someone deserves a lot of credit for having nads
because they walked across an 8 lane highway at night while
blindfolded.


I was being nice. Just like I'm being nice now.
My true and honest opinion is that anyone that would take a coastal cruiser
on an open ocean voyage must be counting on sunshine flowing out his/her ass
throughout the entire trip. The idea that if a person gets in trouble, no
probs, I've got a lifeboat and epirb and someone will come bail my stupid
ass out of this crack doesn't always pan out.
The kids parents put her in this predicament with poor planning and
unsuitable equipment. From the beginning this sounded more like reality tv
than a real no-**** serious trip. The parents should be coughing up the cost
of the rescue. I'm a big believer in being responsible for your actions.