On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 16:57:18 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:


I've seen much of the opposite. The oil field is about a zero
discharge industry now. When I started there often the answer was to
put drums of soap on the back deck, punch holes in them and run back
and forth through an oil slick to disperse it before anyone notices.

When I was Oil King on my can, I once pumped about 1000 gallons of
Navy Special Fuel Oil in Naples Harbor. That's heavy black stuff.
It was discharged between us and the destroyer tender tied alongside.
When the cry went out, I got fire hose crews fore and aft to contain
the oil between ships. Then went and got some help to open the after
stack and carry the 100# sacks of black sand we stored there to the
rail. Dumped the sand on the oil and sank it. Some floated out into
the harbor though. The boatswains still had to clean up the ship
sides from bosun chairs. Lots missed liberty that day, and I was
nobody's friend.
But that's how it was done in "beautiful" Naples Harbor in 1966.
With everybody noticing.
Things sure have changed.

--Vic

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 17:12:00 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 9, 6:55*pm, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:44:35 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:





On Dec 9, 7:35*am, slide wrote:
mmc wrote:

Yeah, the feds are cutting red snapper fishing as of 4 Jan. Lot's of people
complaining that this is based on "bad science". They take no personal
responsibilty for stock depletions. Just take and take and screw tomorrow.
Not too long ago the state outlawed gill nets. Gill net fishermen
slaughtered tons of mullet and "by-catch" (everything else that gets caught-
almost nothing lives) in the harvest of mullet roe for the Japanese market.
Mullet had been almopst wiped out on Floridas west coast around and north of
Tampa.
We saw an almost immediate increase in food fish and in mullet which are an
important food for all carniverous species.
I felt for the netters when this happened but was happy to see that our
Gov't was doing something before the Japanese lust for anything fishy
screwed Floridans permanently.

I had nor do I have any real sympathy with the shrimpers. I would watch
as they empty their nets throwing away hundreds of (now dead) animals
which were collateral damage causalities.

Slide says as he's munching down a huge platter of fried shrimp and
oysters.

I asked them why not get into shrimp farming like the Chinese instead of
letting the crop move to overseas? Their answer always was something
like my father and grandfather and his father all did it this way....

He might also have a 185K in a boat, and not be able to buy a shrimp
farm due to loss of income to the Chinese slave labor shrimp farms.

And what if the shrimpers go broke? *Who's going to pay the 100's of
millions of dollars the shrimper pay to Parks and wildlife for
permits?

How many thousands have you paid to replenish and restock the bays
Slide?

Face it the shrimpers, and fishermen and pleasure sportsmen support
the protection of the stock more than any other group at all.

I never argued with them, but am not sad to see them go either.

Well lets hope that shrimp platter cost you a 100 bucks soon, then
maybe you might give a hoot.

No since in American mariners having jobs if the Chinese can do it
cheaper right?

I bet you drive a Toyota too huh?

Joe

Of course, the Japanese, historically, and the Chinese today, are the
ones buying all the US dollar bond issues from the Treasury... Do you
know what happens to a nation's currency when they announce a treasury
bond sale and no one buys?

Independence day?

I agree that this is somewhat of a side run around the fish but it
does serve to partially explain why the US doesn't simply ban Japanese
cars, in your example, or Chinese shrimp.

The problem is that the world is no longer a simple place. The U.S. is
likely the Chinese' largest single customer, but the Chinese also buy
a substantial amount of the U.S. debt. The U.S. buys Japanese cars and
the Japanese lease the U.S. the bases in Okinawa, which apparently the
U.S. considers important if the recent talks are any indication.

Have you heard the new name for Toyota drivers? Kamakizi's


And round and round...

You ban Chinese shrimp to help the U.S. shrimp fishermen; the Chinese
stop buying bonds, the dollar drops in value, fuel goes up, in U.S.
dollar terms, the fisherman can't afford diesel, U.S. shrimp go up in
price in the U.S. - they become a luxury food and sales drop..... the
fisherman decides to quit fishing...

I've shrimped by sail before. America did just fine before the Japs or
Chinese started buying our t notes. Selling out is not the answer IMO.

Joe

Sure, you did.... a while ago when the world was younger and things
were simpler. Back when the U.S. manufactured what they needed and
exported manufactured goods to foreign countries. Now things are
different. Call the "on line help" number and you get someone in
Banglaore, India. Go down to the WalMart store and everything is made
in one of those cheap foreign countries. Shrimp? the Thais can grow
shrimp in ponds, package them and ship them to the U.S. cheaper then
you can fish them.

Back in those days you could take your green dollar bills down to the
Mint and redeem them for gold at $35.00/oz. today gold sells for what?
Over a thousand dollars and ounce?

It is a whole different world then it was back then. and it is never
going to change back.....

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Dec 10, 6:34*am, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 17:12:00 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:





On Dec 9, 6:55*pm, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:44:35 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 9, 7:35*am, slide wrote:
mmc wrote:

Yeah, the feds are cutting red snapper fishing as of 4 Jan. Lot's of people
complaining that this is based on "bad science". They take no personal
responsibilty for stock depletions. Just take and take and screw tomorrow.
Not too long ago the state outlawed gill nets. Gill net fishermen
slaughtered tons of mullet and "by-catch" (everything else that gets caught-
almost nothing lives) in the harvest of mullet roe for the Japanese market.
Mullet had been almopst wiped out on Floridas west coast around and north of
Tampa.
We saw an almost immediate increase in food fish and in mullet which are an
important food for all carniverous species.
I felt for the netters when this happened but was happy to see that our
Gov't was doing something before the Japanese lust for anything fishy
screwed Floridans permanently.

I had nor do I have any real sympathy with the shrimpers. I would watch
as they empty their nets throwing away hundreds of (now dead) animals
which were collateral damage causalities.

Slide says as he's munching down a huge platter of fried shrimp and
oysters.

I asked them why not get into shrimp farming like the Chinese instead of
letting the crop move to overseas? Their answer always was something
like my father and grandfather and his father all did it this way.....

He might also have a 185K in a boat, and not be able to buy a shrimp
farm due to loss of income to the Chinese slave labor shrimp farms.

And what if the shrimpers go broke? *Who's going to pay the 100's of
millions of dollars the shrimper pay to Parks and wildlife for
permits?

How many thousands have you paid to replenish and restock the bays
Slide?

Face it the shrimpers, and fishermen and pleasure sportsmen support
the protection of the stock more than any other group at all.

I never argued with them, but am not sad to see them go either.

Well lets hope that shrimp platter cost you a 100 bucks soon, then
maybe you might give a hoot.

No since in American mariners having jobs if the Chinese can do it
cheaper right?

I bet you drive a Toyota too huh?

Joe

Of course, the Japanese, historically, and the Chinese today, are the
ones buying all the US dollar bond issues from the Treasury... Do you
know what happens to a nation's currency when they announce a treasury
bond sale and no one buys?

Independence day?

I agree that this is somewhat of a side run around the fish but it
does serve to partially explain why the US doesn't simply ban Japanese
cars, in your example, or Chinese shrimp.

The problem is that the world is no longer a simple place. The U.S. is
likely the Chinese' largest single customer, but the Chinese also buy
a substantial amount of the U.S. debt. The U.S. buys Japanese cars and
the Japanese lease the U.S. the bases in Okinawa, which apparently the
U.S. considers important if the recent talks are any indication.

Have you heard the new name for Toyota drivers? Kamakizi's

And round and round...

You ban Chinese shrimp to help the U.S. shrimp fishermen; the Chinese
stop buying bonds, the dollar drops in value, fuel goes up, in U.S.
dollar terms, the fisherman can't afford diesel, U.S. shrimp go up in
price in the U.S. - they become a luxury food and sales drop..... the
fisherman decides to quit fishing...

I've shrimped by sail before. America did just fine before the Japs or
Chinese started buying our t notes. Selling out is not the answer IMO.

Joe

Sure, you did.... a while ago when the world was younger and things
were simpler. Back when the U.S. manufactured what they needed and
exported manufactured goods to foreign countries.

We can still do that, perhaps youve been gone to long Bruce. Take a
drive across the US and you will see vast resources that have never
been tapped. I think the scales are going to tip back our way because
of several factor that will bring us back to where we need to be.
China and all of Asia is learning fast that cheap mfg has a very big
price. As they implement enviromental standards, decent wages,
heathcare ect...ect and start supporting a retiring staff the playiong
field will level.


Now things are
different. Call the "on line help" number and you get someone in
Banglaore, India.

Alot of that is changing as well. Dell is moving all it support back
here. They found out they can hire stay at home moms for the same
cost.

Go down to the WalMart store and everything is made
in one of those cheap foreign countries.

Not everything.

And if you think China will get away with keeping it's yeun at
artifical low rates flooding our markets, Russia putting massive
taffifs on imports.. 30% on cars for example, Indonesia requiring very
expensive "Licences to import", India and Vietman just imposed massive
tarrifs on steel....Dubia, Saudi.....ect...ect.......ect you are
crazy. I know of many many companies bringing mfg back from China and
the flood is just starting. It's like when Yamamoto said " I'm afraid
we just awoke a sleeping giant."

Shrimp? the Thais can grow
shrimp in ponds, package them and ship them to the U.S. cheaper then
you can fish them.

Yeah and the Thais have no problem destroying an eco system if needed
to get a fist full of greenbacks.


Back in those days you could take your green dollar bills down to the
Mint and redeem them for gold at $35.00/oz. today gold sells for what?
Over a thousand dollars and ounce?

Ed McMahn will redeem all the green you have for gold......You've
been gone to long Bruce.

It is a whole different world then it was back then. and it is never
going to change back.....

I learned to never say never.

Salute,

Joe


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Dec 9, 7:22*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 16:57:18 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:



I've seen much of the opposite. The oil field is about a zero
discharge industry now. When I started there often the answer was to
put drums of soap on the back deck, punch holes in them and run back
and forth through an oil slick to disperse it before anyone notices.

When I was Oil King on my can, I once pumped about 1000 gallons of
Navy Special Fuel Oil in Naples Harbor. *That's heavy black stuff.
It was discharged between us and the destroyer tender tied alongside.
When the cry went out, I got fire hose crews fore and aft to contain
the oil between ships. *Then went and got some help to open the after
stack and carry the 100# sacks of black sand we stored there to the
rail. *Dumped the sand on the oil and sank it. *Some floated out into
the harbor though. *The boatswains still had to clean up the ship
sides from bosun chairs. *Lots missed liberty that day, and I was
nobody's friend.
But that's how it was done in "beautiful" Naples Harbor in 1966.
With everybody noticing.
Things sure have changed.

--Vic

Damn Vic...I can see the slick
http://www.usscharleshroan.org/image...naples1966.jpg

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 6:34 am, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 17:12:00 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:





On Dec 9, 6:55 pm, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:44:35 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 9, 7:35 am, slide wrote:
mmc wrote:

Yeah, the feds are cutting red snapper fishing as of 4 Jan. Lot's
of people
complaining that this is based on "bad science". They take no
personal
responsibilty for stock depletions. Just take and take and screw
tomorrow.
Not too long ago the state outlawed gill nets. Gill net fishermen
slaughtered tons of mullet and "by-catch" (everything else that
gets caught-
almost nothing lives) in the harvest of mullet roe for the
Japanese market.
Mullet had been almopst wiped out on Floridas west coast around
and north of
Tampa.
We saw an almost immediate increase in food fish and in mullet
which are an
important food for all carniverous species.
I felt for the netters when this happened but was happy to see
that our
Gov't was doing something before the Japanese lust for anything
fishy
screwed Floridans permanently.

I had nor do I have any real sympathy with the shrimpers. I would
watch
as they empty their nets throwing away hundreds of (now dead)
animals
which were collateral damage causalities.

Slide says as he's munching down a huge platter of fried shrimp and
oysters.

I asked them why not get into shrimp farming like the Chinese
instead of
letting the crop move to overseas? Their answer always was something
like my father and grandfather and his father all did it this
way....

He might also have a 185K in a boat, and not be able to buy a shrimp
farm due to loss of income to the Chinese slave labor shrimp farms.

And what if the shrimpers go broke? Who's going to pay the 100's of
millions of dollars the shrimper pay to Parks and wildlife for
permits?

How many thousands have you paid to replenish and restock the bays
Slide?

Face it the shrimpers, and fishermen and pleasure sportsmen support
the protection of the stock more than any other group at all.

I never argued with them, but am not sad to see them go either.

Well lets hope that shrimp platter cost you a 100 bucks soon, then
maybe you might give a hoot.

No since in American mariners having jobs if the Chinese can do it
cheaper right?

I bet you drive a Toyota too huh?

Joe

Of course, the Japanese, historically, and the Chinese today, are the
ones buying all the US dollar bond issues from the Treasury... Do you
know what happens to a nation's currency when they announce a treasury
bond sale and no one buys?

Independence day?

I agree that this is somewhat of a side run around the fish but it
does serve to partially explain why the US doesn't simply ban Japanese
cars, in your example, or Chinese shrimp.

The problem is that the world is no longer a simple place. The U.S. is
likely the Chinese' largest single customer, but the Chinese also buy
a substantial amount of the U.S. debt. The U.S. buys Japanese cars and
the Japanese lease the U.S. the bases in Okinawa, which apparently the
U.S. considers important if the recent talks are any indication.

Have you heard the new name for Toyota drivers? Kamakizi's

And round and round...

You ban Chinese shrimp to help the U.S. shrimp fishermen; the Chinese
stop buying bonds, the dollar drops in value, fuel goes up, in U.S.
dollar terms, the fisherman can't afford diesel, U.S. shrimp go up in
price in the U.S. - they become a luxury food and sales drop..... the
fisherman decides to quit fishing...

I've shrimped by sail before. America did just fine before the Japs or
Chinese started buying our t notes. Selling out is not the answer IMO.

Joe

Sure, you did.... a while ago when the world was younger and things
were simpler. Back when the U.S. manufactured what they needed and
exported manufactured goods to foreign countries.

We can still do that, perhaps youve been gone to long Bruce. Take a
drive across the US and you will see vast resources that have never
been tapped. I think the scales are going to tip back our way because
of several factor that will bring us back to where we need to be.
China and all of Asia is learning fast that cheap mfg has a very big
price. As they implement enviromental standards, decent wages,
heathcare ect...ect and start supporting a retiring staff the playiong
field will level.

I think this process will happen but slowly. We've exported so much of our
manufacturing and we need to do so much retooling to make heavy
manufactoring palatable, that I doubt we'll get much of it back. Everyone
keeps harping on China's economic supremacy being just around the corner,
but it isn't for many of the reasons you mention. Their growth will have to
slow to be sustainable.

Now things are
different. Call the "on line help" number and you get someone in
Banglaore, India.

Alot of that is changing as well. Dell is moving all it support back
here. They found out they can hire stay at home moms for the same
cost.

Yes. And, even though the raw numbers say that outsourcing such things is
cheaper, the longer view is that it's at least the same cost if not a higher
cost. We should give business added incentive to keep jobs here with both
tax and other incentives. The "green" technologies (whether or not you think
they're _required_ due to man-made global climage change) is one industry
that we could capitalize on here.

Go down to the WalMart store and everything is made
in one of those cheap foreign countries.

Not everything.

Not everything, but it's a big number.

And if you think China will get away with keeping it's yeun at
artifical low rates flooding our markets, Russia putting massive
taffifs on imports.. 30% on cars for example, Indonesia requiring very
expensive "Licences to import", India and Vietman just imposed massive
tarrifs on steel....Dubia, Saudi.....ect...ect.......ect you are
crazy. I know of many many companies bringing mfg back from China and
the flood is just starting. It's like when Yamamoto said " I'm afraid
we just awoke a sleeping giant."

It's going to be a long process. There are geopolitical issues that go
beyond simple trade agreements.




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 08:58:17 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Joe" wrote in message

Alot of that is changing as well. Dell is moving all it support back
here. They found out they can hire stay at home moms for the same
cost.


Yes. And, even though the raw numbers say that outsourcing such things is
cheaper, the longer view is that it's at least the same cost if not a
higher
cost. We should give business added incentive to keep jobs here with both
tax and other incentives. The "green" technologies (whether or not you
think
they're _required_ due to man-made global climage change) is one industry
that we could capitalize on here.


Conventional tax incentives don't work to keep jobs here. That is
especially true of good paying manufacturing jobs. That has been
tried. However, if they started taxing corporations using a formula
that made a higher "employees to profits" ratio result in a big tax
benefit, it might have a chance.

Obviously, if you do your manufacturing overseas, you would have a
very low "employees to profits" ratio and would pay substantially
higher taxes.

Whatever looks best to shareholders is what will work. In the "olden
days", the stock market viewed adding employees as a sign of a
company's strength. Today it is considered a weakness. That is a
fundemental problem that has to be changed.



We're really dug ourselves a big hole. Both sides of the political divide
have contributed to it. It's going to take a while to fix it, assuming the
politicians have the intestinal fortitude to get it going and assuming the
public holds them to it. Part of the problem is general lack of
understanding of the problem, which is very complex, requiring complex,
multi-faceted solutions. It is really easy to make things sound simple when
they're not.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 06:34:08 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 10, 6:34*am, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 17:12:00 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:





On Dec 9, 6:55*pm, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:44:35 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 9, 7:35*am, slide wrote:
mmc wrote:

Yeah, the feds are cutting red snapper fishing as of 4 Jan. Lot's of people
complaining that this is based on "bad science". They take no personal
responsibilty for stock depletions. Just take and take and screw tomorrow.
Not too long ago the state outlawed gill nets. Gill net fishermen
slaughtered tons of mullet and "by-catch" (everything else that gets caught-
almost nothing lives) in the harvest of mullet roe for the Japanese market.
Mullet had been almopst wiped out on Floridas west coast around and north of
Tampa.
We saw an almost immediate increase in food fish and in mullet which are an
important food for all carniverous species.
I felt for the netters when this happened but was happy to see that our
Gov't was doing something before the Japanese lust for anything fishy
screwed Floridans permanently.

I had nor do I have any real sympathy with the shrimpers. I would watch
as they empty their nets throwing away hundreds of (now dead) animals
which were collateral damage causalities.

Slide says as he's munching down a huge platter of fried shrimp and
oysters.

I asked them why not get into shrimp farming like the Chinese instead of
letting the crop move to overseas? Their answer always was something
like my father and grandfather and his father all did it this way....

He might also have a 185K in a boat, and not be able to buy a shrimp
farm due to loss of income to the Chinese slave labor shrimp farms.

And what if the shrimpers go broke? *Who's going to pay the 100's of
millions of dollars the shrimper pay to Parks and wildlife for
permits?

How many thousands have you paid to replenish and restock the bays
Slide?

Face it the shrimpers, and fishermen and pleasure sportsmen support
the protection of the stock more than any other group at all.

I never argued with them, but am not sad to see them go either.

Well lets hope that shrimp platter cost you a 100 bucks soon, then
maybe you might give a hoot.

No since in American mariners having jobs if the Chinese can do it
cheaper right?

I bet you drive a Toyota too huh?

Joe

Of course, the Japanese, historically, and the Chinese today, are the
ones buying all the US dollar bond issues from the Treasury... Do you
know what happens to a nation's currency when they announce a treasury
bond sale and no one buys?

Independence day?

I agree that this is somewhat of a side run around the fish but it
does serve to partially explain why the US doesn't simply ban Japanese
cars, in your example, or Chinese shrimp.

The problem is that the world is no longer a simple place. The U.S. is
likely the Chinese' largest single customer, but the Chinese also buy
a substantial amount of the U.S. debt. The U.S. buys Japanese cars and
the Japanese lease the U.S. the bases in Okinawa, which apparently the
U.S. considers important if the recent talks are any indication.

Have you heard the new name for Toyota drivers? Kamakizi's

And round and round...

You ban Chinese shrimp to help the U.S. shrimp fishermen; the Chinese
stop buying bonds, the dollar drops in value, fuel goes up, in U.S.
dollar terms, the fisherman can't afford diesel, U.S. shrimp go up in
price in the U.S. - they become a luxury food and sales drop..... the
fisherman decides to quit fishing...

I've shrimped by sail before. America did just fine before the Japs or
Chinese started buying our t notes. Selling out is not the answer IMO.

Joe

Sure, you did.... a while ago when the world was younger and things
were simpler. Back when the U.S. manufactured what they needed and
exported manufactured goods to foreign countries.

We can still do that, perhaps youve been gone to long Bruce. Take a
drive across the US and you will see vast resources that have never
been tapped. I think the scales are going to tip back our way because
of several factor that will bring us back to where we need to be.
China and all of Asia is learning fast that cheap mfg has a very big
price. As they implement enviromental standards, decent wages,
heathcare ect...ect and start supporting a retiring staff the playiong
field will level.

No the scales are not going to tip back and you, perhaps without
knowing it highlight the reason.

Why do you think that the wages aren't decent here? Because they
aren't the high wages paid in the U.S.? Health care? Thailand has what
is called the "30 baht medical plan". If you are a Thai citizen you go
down to a government hospital and see the doctor. You pay 30 baht
(currently $0.90) for the visit, including all medical care and
medicines. This could be, for example, the same hospital that treats
the King of Thailand.

The mantra, "oh they are working at slave labour rates" may sound like
the truth back there but if you are on the ground looking at it has an
entire different look to it. Wages in most of Asia are at an all time
high, the "workers" are taking home, what is to them, very nice
salaries, thank you very much and in addition their tax burden is far
lower both in real and relative terms than most other regions.

And, of course, the cost of living is lower here then it is there. A
normal workman's lunch time meal is in the neighborhood of 75 cents
here in Phuket which is, I might comment, the "Gold Coast" with higher
costs then in most other areas of Thailand.

Medical costs? I mentioned the 30 baht scheme which is for Thai
citizens however for the rest of us... I take a high blood pressure
medicine, an ACE inhibitor named ZESTRIL. I pay US$ 16.66 a box. I
just had a look at an on-line U.S. shop
(http://www.fdarxmeds.com/buy/online/Zestril.shtml)
selling the same stuff for $51.20.
My wife takes a similar type of medicine Blupress at $63.00 a box at
http://www.allrealmeds.com/atacand-b...ess-p-216.html
My cost here $26.00.

So you see, not only are your wages in the range of 25 or more times
the salaries are here but your entire infrastructure is mammothly more
expensive so any effort to compete seems to be doomed.

And I don't even want to start on the different tax burden in
countries outside the U.S.

Now things are
different. Call the "on line help" number and you get someone in
Banglaore, India.

Alot of that is changing as well. Dell is moving all it support back
here. They found out they can hire stay at home moms for the same
cost.

Go down to the WalMart store and everything is made
in one of those cheap foreign countries.

Not everything.

Probably not everything. Lets say, "nearly everything".

And if you think China will get away with keeping it's yeun at
artifical low rates flooding our markets, Russia putting massive
taffifs on imports.. 30% on cars for example, Indonesia requiring very
expensive "Licences to import", India and Vietman just imposed massive
tarrifs on steel....Dubia, Saudi.....ect...ect.......ect you are
crazy. I know of many many companies bringing mfg back from China and
the flood is just starting. It's like when Yamamoto said " I'm afraid
we just awoke a sleeping giant."

Errr.. protective import duties are very much the norm in many places.
Certainly there is a valid argument that these type of tariffs
actually stifle the local development but never the less they
certainly exist. Re your 30% - Thailand has an import duty of 30% on
foreign made toilets. Protects the local (very well made, by the way)
sanitary ware makers.

Actually Yamamoto only said that in the movie... In fact historically
the navy admirals argued against a war with the U.S. It was the army
generals that promoted the attack on the U.S. After all they reckoned,
they had decisively beaten the Russians and the Chinese why not
America?

How do you determine that China's currency is artificially low? I
believe that the renminbi - dollar exchange rate has varied only
slightly in several years.

Shrimp? the Thais can grow
shrimp in ponds, package them and ship them to the U.S. cheaper then
you can fish them.

Yeah and the Thais have no problem destroying an eco system if needed
to get a fist full of greenbacks.

I don't think that anyone living in the U.S. should talk about
destroying an eco system. Or are you saying, "well, we destroyed ours
so we know what we are talking about"?



Back in those days you could take your green dollar bills down to the
Mint and redeem them for gold at $35.00/oz. today gold sells for what?
Over a thousand dollars and ounce?

Ed McMahn will redeem all the green you have for gold......You've
been gone to long Bruce.

I guess I've been gone too long. Who is "Ed McMahn"?

It is a whole different world then it was back then. and it is never
going to change back.....

I learned to never say never.

Salute,

Joe


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

here that is not so, back many years ago they stopped passing out
commerical shrimp licences. Now you have to purchace that licences
from an existing owner willing to sell it. You can buy his boat for
next to nothing but the licences is worth around a 100K. Sort of like
NY Taxi cabs plates.

---------

Sounds like a good move but unless there is a reason for the shrimp to step
up production or eliminate all the other predetors, stocks will reduce
annually anyway. And the "stock" NY taxi drivers rely on is increasing! ;-)

----------

Not me, the CCA in Corpus Christi deserves all the credit.
http://www.ccatexas.org
We just had a boat (among 100's) that could release fingerlings. They
have done a great job in bringing back the Redfish in all Texas bays
releasing 10's of millions of fish to the bays. We now have 10X the
Redfish counted in the 70's.

-------------.

You helped and that is a good thing.

------------

I've seen much of the opposite. The oil field is about a zero
discharge industry now. When I started there often the answer was to
put drums of soap on the back deck, punch holes in them and run back
and forth through an oil slick to disperse it before anyone notices.
Remember the tar balls that use to wash up...havent seen that in many
many years now. The shrimpers have T.E.D.'s now and in Galveston we
have a huge sea turtle hatchery. But we have a very long way to go to
get back to the good ol days

-------------

Sounds like PR spin dude. None of this was done out of corporate kindness or
any sense of responsibility. The government forced the oil company to clean
up thier act and shrimpers to use TEDs. I remember the whining by a lot of
FL shrimpers when the Gov made this a law.

--------------

I guess I have a bit more faith in mankind, many smart fishermen look
at what happened to the cod stock up north and figured that something
has to be done. I'm a firm beliver that we can manage and protect the
fisheries, and if done right we can even make them better for the next
generation. It's been done with the Redfish here it can be done with
most any species.
---------------

Hope you're right and I'm wrong.

---------------

In my life I think I've been to one place that was pristine at the
time (Diego Garcia) and it was the most awesome thing you have ever
seen. 100's of types of coral forming giant reefs covered with a 1000
different types of brilliantly colored exotic fish that numbered in
the millions. You could catch 30 lb red snappers everytime you dropped
a hook in the water. It was heaven on earth, or hell if you ran into
Hector.

http://www.zianet.com/tedmorris/dg/hector.html

----------------

I was thier in '79 on the USS Harold E Holt (FF-1074). What an awesome
place.
One of our mess specialists (cooks) fished all the time and one night hooked
a 4-5' shark. He was pulling it back to the accomodation ladder while
discussing with the deck watch how to get it aboard when a FRIGGIN HUGE
hammerhead chomped it! Maybe it was Hector!
Too cool.

On Dec 11, 9:20*am, "mmc" wrote:
here that is not so, back many years ago they stopped passing out
commerical shrimp licences. Now you have to purchace that licences
from an existing owner willing to sell it. You can buy his boat for
next to nothing but the licences is worth around a 100K. Sort of like
NY Taxi cabs plates.

---------

Sounds like a good move but unless there is a reason for the shrimp to step
up production or eliminate all the other predetors, stocks will reduce
annually anyway. And the "stock" NY taxi drivers rely on is increasing! ;-)

----------

*Not me, the CCA in Corpus Christi deserves all the credit.http://www.ccatexas.org
*We just had a boat (among 100's) that could release fingerlings. They
have done a great job in bringing back the Redfish in all Texas bays
releasing 10's of millions of fish to the bays. We now have 10X the
Redfish counted in the 70's.

-------------.

*You helped and that is a good thing.

------------

I've seen much of the opposite. The oil field is about a zero
discharge industry now. When I started there often the answer was to
put drums of soap on the back deck, punch holes in them and run back
and forth through an oil slick to disperse it before anyone notices.
Remember the tar balls that use to wash up...havent seen that in many
many years now. The shrimpers have T.E.D.'s now and in Galveston we
have a huge sea turtle hatchery. But we have a very long way to go to
get back to the good ol days

-------------

Sounds like PR spin dude. None of this was done out of corporate kindness or
any sense of responsibility. The government forced the oil company to clean
up thier act and shrimpers to use TEDs. I remember the whining by a lot of
FL shrimpers when the Gov made this a law.

--------------

I guess I have a bit more faith in mankind, many smart fishermen look
at what happened to the cod stock up north and figured that something
has to be done. I'm a firm beliver that we can manage and protect the
fisheries, and if done right we can even make them better for the next
generation. It's been done with the Redfish here it can be done with
most any species.
---------------

Hope you're right and I'm wrong.

---------------

* In my life I think I've been to one place that was pristine at the
time (Diego Garcia) and it was the most awesome thing you have ever
seen. 100's of types of coral forming giant reefs covered with a 1000
different types of brilliantly colored exotic *fish that numbered in
the millions. You could catch 30 lb red snappers everytime you dropped
a hook in the water. It was heaven on earth, or hell if you ran into
Hector.

http://www.zianet.com/tedmorris/dg/hector.html

----------------

I was thier in '79 on the USS Harold E Holt (FF-1074). What an awesome
place.

I was there 80-81 USS Samuel Gompers AD-37 during the Iran hostage
ordeal.

One of our mess specialists (cooks) fished all the time and one night hooked
a 4-5' shark. He was pulling it back to the accomodation ladder while
discussing with the deck watch how to get it aboard when a FRIGGIN HUGE
hammerhead chomped it! Maybe it was Hector!
Too cool.

I never saw Hector, but swam with a ray that had about a 15 ft wing
span. A friend grabbed him by the gill and he sped off, his tail
cutting my leg (lower thigh) to the bone. For R&R the ship took a trip
to Mauritiuis just off the souther tip of Africa, a pretty cool place
as well. That was my second Wes-Pac.

This is the boat I was coxswain of at Deigo: http://www.ship564.org/boats.html
The sea scouts did a good job of fixin her up.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Dec 11, 9:20 am, "mmc" wrote:
here that is not so, back many years ago they stopped passing out
commerical shrimp licences. Now you have to purchace that licences
from an existing owner willing to sell it. You can buy his boat for
next to nothing but the licences is worth around a 100K. Sort of like
NY Taxi cabs plates.

---------

Sounds like a good move but unless there is a reason for the shrimp to
step
up production or eliminate all the other predetors, stocks will reduce
annually anyway. And the "stock" NY taxi drivers rely on is increasing!
;-)

----------

Not me, the CCA in Corpus Christi deserves all the
credit.http://www.ccatexas.org
We just had a boat (among 100's) that could release fingerlings. They
have done a great job in bringing back the Redfish in all Texas bays
releasing 10's of millions of fish to the bays. We now have 10X the
Redfish counted in the 70's.

-------------.

You helped and that is a good thing.

------------

I've seen much of the opposite. The oil field is about a zero
discharge industry now. When I started there often the answer was to
put drums of soap on the back deck, punch holes in them and run back
and forth through an oil slick to disperse it before anyone notices.
Remember the tar balls that use to wash up...havent seen that in many
many years now. The shrimpers have T.E.D.'s now and in Galveston we
have a huge sea turtle hatchery. But we have a very long way to go to
get back to the good ol days

-------------

Sounds like PR spin dude. None of this was done out of corporate kindness
or
any sense of responsibility. The government forced the oil company to
clean
up thier act and shrimpers to use TEDs. I remember the whining by a lot of
FL shrimpers when the Gov made this a law.

--------------

I guess I have a bit more faith in mankind, many smart fishermen look
at what happened to the cod stock up north and figured that something
has to be done. I'm a firm beliver that we can manage and protect the
fisheries, and if done right we can even make them better for the next
generation. It's been done with the Redfish here it can be done with
most any species.
---------------

Hope you're right and I'm wrong.

---------------

In my life I think I've been to one place that was pristine at the
time (Diego Garcia) and it was the most awesome thing you have ever
seen. 100's of types of coral forming giant reefs covered with a 1000
different types of brilliantly colored exotic fish that numbered in
the millions. You could catch 30 lb red snappers everytime you dropped
a hook in the water. It was heaven on earth, or hell if you ran into
Hector.

http://www.zianet.com/tedmorris/dg/hector.html

----------------

I was thier in '79 on the USS Harold E Holt (FF-1074). What an awesome
place.

I was there 80-81 USS Samuel Gompers AD-37 during the Iran hostage
ordeal.

One of our mess specialists (cooks) fished all the time and one night
hooked
a 4-5' shark. He was pulling it back to the accomodation ladder while
discussing with the deck watch how to get it aboard when a FRIGGIN HUGE
hammerhead chomped it! Maybe it was Hector!
Too cool.

I never saw Hector, but swam with a ray that had about a 15 ft wing
span. A friend grabbed him by the gill and he sped off, his tail
cutting my leg (lower thigh) to the bone. For R&R the ship took a trip
to Mauritiuis just off the souther tip of Africa, a pretty cool place
as well. That was my second Wes-Pac.

This is the boat I was coxswain of at Deigo:
http://www.ship564.org/boats.html
The sea scouts did a good job of fixin her up.

Joe
----------

I think the LY Spear was the tender there when our ship was and it was
during the Iran thing - we did blockade on "Gonzo Station".
Small world!
Sounds like a very nasty cut.
Definitely lot's of sharks inside the "foot", I saw a few swim by but not
the monsters. We heard a lot of shark stories from the SeaBees after losing
softball games to them. Those guys got pretty good stuck on Diego with
nothing else to do.
Our one liberty port in the IO was Mogadishu, back before it became such a
tourist hot spot.