While we are arguing about charging the batteries,
how about some help DIScharging them?

I'd like to put a 15 to 19 inch VGA monitor up forward to show charts and
play movies and such.

It would mount up in the fo'c'sle and fold up out of the way when not in use.
(I'll make a nice fiberglass mount/container for it)

I've been Googling this mess (bo-ring!) for Marine, Automotive, and RV
equipment (and even cheap home computer monitors).

The marine and RV stuff are really expensive. $500 + for a $100 toy.

So far, a raw LCD 15 inch display looks best from the point of battery
usage (12 volt DC, 24 watts).

The 15 inch version pulls about 40 watts (!)

The LED displays are almost all 120 vac devices.



I'd like to find:
SVGA input. Other optional inputs are ok,
but the laptop will be the primary source.
16:9 aspect ratio.
1280 x 800 is the native laptop display.
12 volt DC power
1000:1 or better contrast ratio
5 ms or better grey-grey response time.
for a couple of bucks maybe??

Larry???

cavelamb wrote in
:

So far, a raw LCD 15 inch display looks best from the point of battery
usage (12 volt DC, 24 watts).

The 15 inch version pulls about 40 watts (!)

The LED displays are almost all 120 vac devices.



I'd like to find:
SVGA input. Other optional inputs are ok,
but the laptop will be the primary source.
16:9 aspect ratio.
1280 x 800 is the native laptop display.
12 volt DC power
1000:1 or better contrast ratio
5 ms or better grey-grey response time.
for a couple of bucks maybe??

Larry???




Well, 40 watts, you wanted help discharging, right?....(c;]

I have two comments that are pet peeves of mine. A boat is a BRIGHT
place to watch TV. Any surface brightly lit radiates LIGHT....duhh...

So, EVERY display on the boat MUST be NON-GLOSSY, NON-REFLECTIVE....so
you're not trying to watch the picture through a damned mirror showing
you YOU and most of the brightly-lit stuff behind you...marina, hatches,
that horrid picture the wife keeps threatening to throw overboard, the
clock on the bulkhead, etc.

THIS is FAR more important than what power it draws. TV is useless if
you can't stand to watch it without waiting for it to get dark outside.

Another issue, on a boat, is "Where are you gonna stow it?" It'd be
nice to have a super 42" beast to watch the movie, but they don't fold
up and stow in the lazerette with the dock lines when you're going to
sea. Oh, they have those stupid swinging mounts that bang the mounted
TV around when you heel over and it slams against the starboard
cabinetry, leaving a gouge, but having a big LCD TV aboard is a real
stowage problem because they're just too big! I wouldn't wanna sleep
with it in the watch berth. So, keep it small, keep it NON GLARE and
keep it LCD. 12-18" LCD high definition TV that runs on 12VDC and has
an XVGA computer input and a NON GLOSSY screen AND NON GLOSSY FRAME
AROUND THE SCREEN (flat black is best!).

That should narrow it down a lot.....



--
-----
Larry

If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something,
is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him?

You will find that finding a 12 V or 24 V DC LCD screen is very difficult at
best. You will also find that when found for marine use, they are very
expensive. There are reasons for this beyond those very valid caveats made
bt Larry. One of which is black is not black. Most screens glow somewhat
when displaying black. Marine screens do not, as protection of night vision
is pretty importsnt on a bridge. But your requirement is not a ship's bridge
and can be met with an inexpensive computer display that runs off AC with
the use of the low wattage sine wave inverters. The good ones do not radiate
and are amazingly efficient. If you want to keep this screen inexpensive,
you may find that you will have to drop your contrast ratio spec of 1000 to
1 to 800 to 1.
Steve

"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
While we are arguing about charging the batteries,
how about some help DIScharging them?

I'd like to put a 15 to 19 inch VGA monitor up forward to show charts and
play movies and such.

It would mount up in the fo'c'sle and fold up out of the way when not in
use.
(I'll make a nice fiberglass mount/container for it)

I've been Googling this mess (bo-ring!) for Marine, Automotive, and RV
equipment (and even cheap home computer monitors).

The marine and RV stuff are really expensive. $500 + for a $100 toy.

So far, a raw LCD 15 inch display looks best from the point of battery
usage (12 volt DC, 24 watts).

The 15 inch version pulls about 40 watts (!)

The LED displays are almost all 120 vac devices.



I'd like to find:
SVGA input. Other optional inputs are ok,
but the laptop will be the primary source.
16:9 aspect ratio.
1280 x 800 is the native laptop display.
12 volt DC power
1000:1 or better contrast ratio
5 ms or better grey-grey response time.
for a couple of bucks maybe??

Larry???

Larry wrote:
cavelamb wrote in
:

So far, a raw LCD 15 inch display looks best from the point of battery
usage (12 volt DC, 24 watts).

The 15 inch version pulls about 40 watts (!)

The LED displays are almost all 120 vac devices.



I'd like to find:
SVGA input. Other optional inputs are ok,
but the laptop will be the primary source.
16:9 aspect ratio.
1280 x 800 is the native laptop display.
12 volt DC power
1000:1 or better contrast ratio
5 ms or better grey-grey response time.
for a couple of bucks maybe??

Larry???




Well, 40 watts, you wanted help discharging, right?....(c;]

I have two comments that are pet peeves of mine. A boat is a BRIGHT
place to watch TV. Any surface brightly lit radiates LIGHT....duhh...

So, EVERY display on the boat MUST be NON-GLOSSY, NON-REFLECTIVE....so
you're not trying to watch the picture through a damned mirror showing
you YOU and most of the brightly-lit stuff behind you...marina, hatches,
that horrid picture the wife keeps threatening to throw overboard, the
clock on the bulkhead, etc.

THIS is FAR more important than what power it draws. TV is useless if
you can't stand to watch it without waiting for it to get dark outside.

Another issue, on a boat, is "Where are you gonna stow it?" It'd be
nice to have a super 42" beast to watch the movie, but they don't fold
up and stow in the lazerette with the dock lines when you're going to
sea. Oh, they have those stupid swinging mounts that bang the mounted
TV around when you heel over and it slams against the starboard
cabinetry, leaving a gouge, but having a big LCD TV aboard is a real
stowage problem because they're just too big! I wouldn't wanna sleep
with it in the watch berth. So, keep it small, keep it NON GLARE and
keep it LCD. 12-18" LCD high definition TV that runs on 12VDC and has
an XVGA computer input and a NON GLOSSY screen AND NON GLOSSY FRAME
AROUND THE SCREEN (flat black is best!).

That should narrow it down a lot.....




I completely agree about the non reflective screen issue.
I should have included it in the list.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26/
7th pic down...

the screen will fold up under the deck in front of that shelf.
Out of the way, and with a hard cover, should be safe there.

Up there, with a little down angle like you were stretched out
on the bunk, even the mirror surface of my lap top looks great.
All the reflections go elsewhere.

I think 18 inches will be plenty.
But 40 watts! and that's just the display. Doesn't include the
computer or audio amp.

I've got the audio run into the stereo, and the sound is theater
quality - specially in that echo chamber.

Steve Lusardi wrote:

You will find that finding a 12 V or 24 V DC LCD screen is very difficult at
best. You will also find that when found for marine use, they are very
expensive. There are reasons for this beyond those very valid caveats made
bt Larry. One of which is black is not black. Most screens glow somewhat
when displaying black. Marine screens do not, as protection of night vision
is pretty importsnt on a bridge. But your requirement is not a ship's bridge
and can be met with an inexpensive computer display that runs off AC with
the use of the low wattage sine wave inverters. The good ones do not radiate
and are amazingly efficient. If you want to keep this screen inexpensive,
you may find that you will have to drop your contrast ratio spec of 1000 to
1 to 800 to 1.
Steve


I didn't know that about marine screens. The non-glow thing.
Interesting point and maybe the extra bucks are not just fools gold.

Plain old flat panel computer monitors are certainly cheap enough these days.

The 1000:1 ratio is pretty old fashioned stuff these days at least among
computer monitors. Some of them are amazingly high.
I didn't see anything in the 1280 x ? resolution at less than 1000:1.

A good 18" matte finished display (Dell?) was about $125 or so.

The inverter is going to be the trick that makes the rabbit pop out of the hat.
If it can run the CPU and the display, I think I'd quit there.

The one I had before was not a true sine wave output - but a stair step
sorta sine wave. Some things did not so well with that (actually died
at first sight!) I'm sure things have improved since then (10 years?).
But how would one know before hand???

Lastly, I need a simple way to switch from inverter to shore power.
Probably easiest would be to have a 110 connection - one socket marked
shore power, the other marked inverter and a single plug to the system.
Plug it into one or the other?


Surely ought to do a good job discharging the house batteries!

The sine wave inverters that I am refering to cost in the area of $100 for a
150 watt model. I just went through this experience for a radar screen and I
had exactly your questions. I was specificically concerned about it's RF
noise emissions, native resolution, correct aspect ratio and the efficiency
of the inverter with a 40 watt draw. I made the plunge picked up a screen
for 140 Euros and the inverter from Conrad. I then tested the setup with a
lab power supply and a AM radio tuned off station, where I could monitor the
power draw precisely for all conditions and I was pleasantly surprised. The
screen was rated at 34 watts and I saw 36 watts off the lab supply when on
and displaying an image and when the screen was off, the inverter was
drawing just a few milliwatts. Also, when the inverter was powered up, the
radio emitted no white noise. In conclusion, the sine wave inverter works a
treat and the setup cost much less than a certified marine screen.
Steve

"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Steve Lusardi wrote:

You will find that finding a 12 V or 24 V DC LCD screen is very difficult
at best. You will also find that when found for marine use, they are very
expensive. There are reasons for this beyond those very valid caveats
made bt Larry. One of which is black is not black. Most screens glow
somewhat when displaying black. Marine screens do not, as protection of
night vision is pretty importsnt on a bridge. But your requirement is not
a ship's bridge and can be met with an inexpensive computer display that
runs off AC with the use of the low wattage sine wave inverters. The good
ones do not radiate and are amazingly efficient. If you want to keep this
screen inexpensive, you may find that you will have to drop your contrast
ratio spec of 1000 to 1 to 800 to 1.
Steve


I didn't know that about marine screens. The non-glow thing.
Interesting point and maybe the extra bucks are not just fools gold.

Plain old flat panel computer monitors are certainly cheap enough these
days.

The 1000:1 ratio is pretty old fashioned stuff these days at least among
computer monitors. Some of them are amazingly high.
I didn't see anything in the 1280 x ? resolution at less than 1000:1.

A good 18" matte finished display (Dell?) was about $125 or so.

The inverter is going to be the trick that makes the rabbit pop out of the
hat.
If it can run the CPU and the display, I think I'd quit there.

The one I had before was not a true sine wave output - but a stair step
sorta sine wave. Some things did not so well with that (actually died
at first sight!) I'm sure things have improved since then (10 years?).
But how would one know before hand???

Lastly, I need a simple way to switch from inverter to shore power.
Probably easiest would be to have a 110 connection - one socket marked
shore power, the other marked inverter and a single plug to the system.
Plug it into one or the other?


Surely ought to do a good job discharging the house batteries!

Steve Lusardi wrote:
The sine wave inverters that I am refering to cost in the area of $100 for a
150 watt model. I just went through this experience for a radar screen and I
had exactly your questions. I was specificically concerned about it's RF
noise emissions, native resolution, correct aspect ratio and the efficiency
of the inverter with a 40 watt draw. I made the plunge picked up a screen
for 140 Euros and the inverter from Conrad. I then tested the setup with a
lab power supply and a AM radio tuned off station, where I could monitor the
power draw precisely for all conditions and I was pleasantly surprised. The
screen was rated at 34 watts and I saw 36 watts off the lab supply when on
and displaying an image and when the screen was off, the inverter was
drawing just a few milliwatts. Also, when the inverter was powered up, the
radio emitted no white noise. In conclusion, the sine wave inverter works a
treat and the setup cost much less than a certified marine screen.
Steve



Thanks shipmate!
That's the way to go then.



"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
Steve Lusardi wrote:

You will find that finding a 12 V or 24 V DC LCD screen is very difficult
at best. You will also find that when found for marine use, they are very
expensive. There are reasons for this beyond those very valid caveats
made bt Larry. One of which is black is not black. Most screens glow
somewhat when displaying black. Marine screens do not, as protection of
night vision is pretty importsnt on a bridge. But your requirement is not
a ship's bridge and can be met with an inexpensive computer display that
runs off AC with the use of the low wattage sine wave inverters. The good
ones do not radiate and are amazingly efficient. If you want to keep this
screen inexpensive, you may find that you will have to drop your contrast
ratio spec of 1000 to 1 to 800 to 1.
Steve

I didn't know that about marine screens. The non-glow thing.
Interesting point and maybe the extra bucks are not just fools gold.

Plain old flat panel computer monitors are certainly cheap enough these
days.

The 1000:1 ratio is pretty old fashioned stuff these days at least among
computer monitors. Some of them are amazingly high.
I didn't see anything in the 1280 x ? resolution at less than 1000:1.

A good 18" matte finished display (Dell?) was about $125 or so.

The inverter is going to be the trick that makes the rabbit pop out of the
hat.
If it can run the CPU and the display, I think I'd quit there.

The one I had before was not a true sine wave output - but a stair step
sorta sine wave. Some things did not so well with that (actually died
at first sight!) I'm sure things have improved since then (10 years?).
But how would one know before hand???

Lastly, I need a simple way to switch from inverter to shore power.
Probably easiest would be to have a 110 connection - one socket marked
shore power, the other marked inverter and a single plug to the system.
Plug it into one or the other?


Surely ought to do a good job discharging the house batteries!

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:30:05 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Lastly, I need a simple way to switch from inverter to shore power.
Probably easiest would be to have a 110 connection - one socket marked
shore power, the other marked inverter and a single plug to the system.
Plug it into one or the other?

I already had a rotary switch to go from generator to shore power so
just bought a new switch with 3 positions instead of two for the
inverter.

Blue Seas makes one that would probably work for you:

http://bluesea.com/application/6/pro...e/overview/173

Otherwise you could just use a DPDT toggle switch if you are switching
less current.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:30:05 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Lastly, I need a simple way to switch from inverter to shore power.
Probably easiest would be to have a 110 connection - one socket marked
shore power, the other marked inverter and a single plug to the system.
Plug it into one or the other?

I already had a rotary switch to go from generator to shore power so
just bought a new switch with 3 positions instead of two for the
inverter.

Blue Seas makes one that would probably work for you:

http://bluesea.com/application/6/pro...e/overview/173

Otherwise you could just use a DPDT toggle switch if you are switching
less current.



This mess would only require 1 or 2 amps of AC to run everything.

DPDT, with center off?

That might be more sensible than fooling with the plug.

I completely agree about the non reflective screen issue.
I should have included it in the list.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26/
7th pic down...

the screen will fold up under the deck in front of that shelf.
Out of the way, and with a hard cover, should be safe there.

Up there, with a little down angle like you were stretched out
on the bunk, even the mirror surface of my lap top looks great.
All the reflections go elsewhere.

I think 18 inches will be plenty.
But 40 watts! and that's just the display. Doesn't include the
computer or audio amp.

I've got the audio run into the stereo, and the sound is theater
quality - specially in that echo chamber.

I've got absolutely nothing to offer for advice, but I like your boat!
Especially the open layout below with no bulkhead and no attemp to create a
seperate v berth. I think this is so much better in a small boat than trying
to cram seating in the salon and having a seperate v.
Cool!